California Electric Vehicle Submetering Pilot Program

[Dsinned]

In the middle of the night, with "everything" off, my background household consumption is down to around 50 to 75 watts. It is easy to tell when the refrigerator is running, as well as the HVAC system, so with all the lights out, it is safe to assume my vampire loads are essentially negligible compared to the EVSE while charging. While monitoring my Efergy TPM, which is solely measuring the load presented on the JB when charging my VOLT, the TPM reads about 3.35kW. While charging my RAV4, at 30A, it reads about 7.0kW.

My native JB "kWh" reading fluctuates about +/-0.1kW at around 3.3kW and 7.0kW respectively. The AC line voltage, measured at my JB while under load, generally stabilizes at around 230V nominally in the middle of the night. So calculating it, the energy consumed thru the JB is 6.9kW, however the AC current measured also noticeably fluctuates slightly while set to limit at 30A while charging my RAV4.

 

[pchilds]

I am bit slow, I just realized the EMW is the new Blink on a smaller scale. Suck as much from the government tit as you can. Providing mediocre, sometimes dangerous products.

 

[emotorwerks]

I am bit slow, I just realized the EMW is the new Blink on a smaller scale. Suck as much from the government tit as you can. Providing mediocre, sometimes dangerous products.

Pat, thanks for the lighthearted humor, but on a more serious note, is there something else you wanted to achieve besides giggles?

 

[emotorwerks]

My native JB "kWh" reading fluctuates about +/-0.1kW at around 3.3kW and 7.0kW respectively. The AC line voltage, measured at my JB while under load, generally stabilizes at around 230V nominally in the middle of the night. So calculating it, the energy consumed thru the JB is 6.9kW, however the AC current measured also noticeably fluctuates slightly while set to limit at 30A while charging my RAV4.

Thank you for that, Dennis! Voltage measurement is calibrated on each JuiceBox. The electric current is not yet calibrated, but Electric Motor Werks will move to a fully calibrated approach soon. The CPUC submetering pilot required an accuracy of 5% or better. While I don't have the test results in front of me, I recall hearing that JuiceBox exceeded that requirement. Obviously, this is a sensitive topic, and I believe that the longer-term objective is to achieve utility-grade accuracy.

 

[emotorwerks]

What version of the PCB is being used inside your PEV Pilot ready JuiceBox?

It's V8.10 with a trial-specific firmware. JuiceBox might move to V8.11 very soon, which will likely affect PEV Pilot builds as well.

 

[emotorwerks]

I just downloaded a beta App for the JB. It allows monitoring of the actual charge power, provides stats, AND allows you to set your max charge rate (assuming your are connected to wifi). It is only available through the Emotorwerks Facebook JB power users group, and jumping through several hoops to join, sign up as a beta tester and download. I haven't been able to use it yet - I won't need to charge until tomorrow night.

Edit: FB link https://www.facebook.com/groups/juicebox.powe/

I presume this is an Android app, right? I have an iPhone, so I guess I'm just SOL for now. :roll:

Yes, it's Android only for now. An iPhone version is planned when the app and its features mature a bit. In the meantime, we recommend an inexpensive Android handset. Best Buy carries the ZTE Whirl, which retails for $19.99. The app will work just fine over WiFi, and there is no need to activate the handset. This could be a good interim solution.

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/net10-zte-whirl-2-no-contract-cell-phone-black/8728026.p?id=1219362861847

 

[emotorwerks]

I don't have the link handy, but you can read the CPUC "letter" on this yourself with some clever searching, maybe OhmConnect has a link on their web site. They are "required" to be +/- 5%, but users with JB power measurement don't seem to be convinced the current measurement is correct - the voltage measurement seems OK. Given 500 participants, I doubt the utilities will check the accuracy - this is ~500 fleas on 3 elephants.

Yes, there is a 5% accuracy requirement for the PEV Pilot. The utilities have appropriated substantial funds for the inspection of equipment in the field, and I think it's safe to assume that this will be enforced. Please refer to page 9 of the EV submetering meter data management registration agreement:

http://www.pge.com/tariffs/tm2/pdf/ELEC_FORMS_79-1158.pdf

 

[emotorwerks]

By the way, anyone know how the rebate process even works? I have a lot of FAQs to read I suppose - both Ohmconnect (OC) and Electric Motor Werks (EMW).

You will receive the first rebate after connecting your trial JuiceBox David. It's automatic, there is nothing you will have to do. The remaining rebates are due as the charging station is used during the pilot program. Electric Motor Werks and Ohmconnect are passing all the CPUC and utility payments onto you, which should result in a fully rebated JuiceBox.

http://emotorwerks.com/pev-faq

 

[emotorwerks]

What imho is a bit of a turnoff is the lack of updates on the time frame after opening an ohmconnect account about the next steps.
I can assume they are working very hard on their side of the project, would be nice to keep the people who signed a little bit better informed.

My apologies for the lack of updates. I will contact Ohmconnect and get another email campaign underway. Both Electric Motor Werks and Ohmconnect are fairly young ventures, and they are the leading MDMAs on this pilot. Compliance with requirements is strictly enforced, but both companies have their normal commercial activities to take care of as well. Again, my sincere apologies for the lack of communication of late. It was unintentional. Please rest assured that everyone is working diligently to help make this pilot a success. Thank you for your patience.

 

[emotorwerks]

I assume the mounting bracket is included or did you have to order that separately?

Yes, the mounting bracket is included in the PEV Pilot bundle at $449 (plus tax).

Does it come with a 32A, 25' long, orange output cable?

Electric Motor Werks is transitioning to a 40 amp cable, and the PEV Pilot builds shipped in the near future will only offer that cable choice. The length will be reduced to 20 feet.

 

[emotorwerks]

Yes, that black button is pressed to connect via WPS. There's high voltage in the box when you have it plugged in (necessary to connect to WPS), so it is highly preferable for them to pre-configure the WiFi. If you have the ability, you might configure the WPS with a 110VAC adapter (would be enough to power up the electronics).

The main reason for pre-programming WiFi login credentials is that WPS is not something that works for everyone, and it's not a robust configuration method. JuiceBox will be transitioning to a different WiFi module with a more sophisticated set up mechanism. The current module is based on RN-171 board, which supports access point configuration, but it's not entirely straightforward and reliable.

 

[emotorwerks]

I don't have a "WPS" on my wifi. So unless I give them my key, or I can use some ftdi interface/serial console to set my WPA2 key, it won't work.
I also hope that I will be able to limit my current to 24 amps somehow.

We will absolutely work with you on both fronts. Setting the current limit in hardware is something the assembly technician can do for you. The WiFi credentials is something we can negotiate as well. With a little luck, JuiceBox will have transitioned to a new WiFi module by the time you receive your pilot hardware.

 

[Dsinned]

Thanks for all the updates eMW! Is there still other good news in the "werks"? :mrgreen: UL approval for one, which will be a BIG PLUS for all "open source" L2 EVSE prospective buyers in the future. As you know, UL approval will pave the way for recognition by the CPUC to roll out the new submetering pilot program in California based on JuiceBox EVSEs. I am really looking forward to being one of the early adopters in the PEV submetering pilot program! My name has been on the "waiting list" since September! However, I have been using a customized, earlier version of the JuiceBox Basic up till now, and I am very pleased with its performance! I have used it to charge two EVs consuming ~900kWh total so far. The JB has operated flawlessly!

Anticipating participation in the submetering trial, by early next year, along with the eminent termination of PG&E's pre-existing E-9A (special EV) rate plan in Northern CA, I already requested transfer of my primary meter to the E-7 (TOU) rate plan. This was done so that I am now fully qualified to participate in the trial. Once I transfer yet again, next to the EV-B plan as a result after my acceptance in the trial, I should be able to fully maximize the savings on my electric bill, That is to say, accumulating even more annual true up "credits", since I have solar on my rooftop.

How sweet it is!!!

 

[emotorwerks]

Thanks for all the updates eMW!

My pleasure, Dennis! I apologize for not having tacked this thread more closely. Hopefully, all of the immediate questions have been answered. If you had any other questions, aside from the obligatory "where is my trial JuiceBox", please send us an email at [email protected] and we will get you situated.

UL approval for one, which will be a BIG PLUS for all "open source" L2 EVSE prospective buyers in the future. As you know, UL approval will pave the way for recognition by the CPUC to roll out the new submetering pilot program in California based on JuiceBox EVSEs.

Yes, Electric Motor Werks has received a preliminary design review from both a national testing lab, and an experienced senior charging station engineer. JuiceBox has been deemed to be nearly fully compliant with UL requirements. There are couple of items, where a component swap was recommended to help accelerate testing, and several smaller issues, such as warning stickers on the product, which are currently missing. The outlook for the current design to get UL certified is very good, and that could be indeed a validation of the effort Valery and team have put into it.

I am really looking forward to being one of the early adopters in the PEV submetering pilot program! My name has been on the "waiting list" since September!

Thank you and everyone else on this thread for signing up. The submetering pilot is a groundbreaking effort by the CPUC and several utilities, which aims at removing barriers for EV adoption. While Electric Motor Werks and Ohmconnect might not be large enough for being leading MDMAs on a pilot such as this one, they are equally excited to have an opportunity to learn from you, improve their products and services, and help advance the EV cause.

However, I have been using a customized, earlier version of the JuiceBox Basic up till now, and I am very pleased with its performance! I have used it to charge two EVs consuming ~900kWh so far. The JB has operated flawlessly!

Great to hear! Hopefully, your JuiceBox will continue to perform well. You know where to find us, should you have any questions or experience any difficulty with the hardware.

Anticipating participation in the submetering trial, by early next year, along with the eminent termination of PG&E's pre-existing E-9A (special EV) rate plan in Northern CA, I already requested transfer of my primary meter to the E-7 (TOU) rate plan. This was done so that I am now fully qualified to participate in the trial.

Thank you for doing that. The E-9A tariff is being sunset at the end of this calender year. The applicable residential rate schedules for primary meter usage are E-1, E-6, E-7, EM and ES and their low income equivalents. The applicable residential rate schedule for EV submetered usage is EV-B, as you already mentioned in your comment.

Once I transfer yet again, next to the EV-B plan as a result after my acceptance in the trial, I should be able to fully maximize the savings on my electric bill, That is to say, accumulating even more annual true up "credits", since I have solar on my rooftop.

How sweet it is!!!

:mrgreen:

 

[miimura]

Anticipating participation in the submetering trial, by early next year, along with the eminent termination of PG&E's pre-existing E-9A (special EV) rate plan in Northern CA, I already requested transfer of my primary meter to the E-7 (TOU) rate plan. This was done so that I am now fully qualified to participate in the trial. Once I transfer yet again, next to the EV-B plan as a result after my acceptance in the trial, I should be able to fully maximize the savings on my electric bill, That is to say, accumulating even more annual true up "credits", since I have solar on my rooftop.

How sweet it is!!!

E-7 has been closed to new enrollments since at least 1/1/2011 and probably even earlier than that. Almost everyone with solar that wants TOU in PG&E Territory gets E-6 unless they have an EV.

I'm still puzzled why you are so excited about this pilot. My understanding is that you have a relatively large solar system compared to your household electric usage. I'm pretty sure you will be paying significantly more to PG&E on the sub-metering pilot than you would otherwise. Unless I'm completely mis-understanding the terms of the pilot, the sub-metered usage is subtracted from your main meter account and you have to pay for the sub-metered usage each month according to Schedule EV-B. I'm guessing your annual true up will go below $0 and you will only earn $0.04/kWh on your surplus generation while you are paying "retail" EV-B rates of about $0.10/kWh for charging your cars Off-Peak.

Edit: Don't get me wrong, Sub-Metering is very much needed. However, the people that really need it are people in Tracy that can install an EVSE but not solar. Paying for A/C on E-1 while paying for vehicle charging on EV-B can save you a lot of money.

 

[Dsinned]

Hmmm . . . I don't doubt what you are saying, but this morning, during my telephone conversation with PG&E, the representative I spoke with made no mention of the E-7 rate plan being CLOSED. In fact, I was informed that my request to transfer to E-7 was "entered" in their system and should take effect in approximately two weeks, by the start of my next billing cycle. Could PG&E's own representatives be that grossly misinformed about the availability of their own rate plans???

Btw, I choose E-7 because it is my understanding that peak rates only apply from 12 noon to 6pm on weekdays. There is no partial peak and off-peak applies at all other times including 24/7 on weekends. During the Winter, my primary meter consumption comes from running the heating system's ventilation fan mostly after 6pm throughout the week. During the Summer, my A/C will be used a lot during the daytime, but I have the solar generation to offset a lot of that consumption.

The retail cost for E-7 in Tier 1 is 34 and 10 cents per kWh for peak vs off-peak respectively. I suspect I will be billed (or accumulate credits) mostly for Tier 1 usage (generation). Off-peak for EV-B is almost the same cost and there are no tiers. Off-peak for E-9A is about half the cost of the other two rate plans, ~6 cents per kWh. However, if I change my charging schedule, especially for my RAV4, so as to start charging say after 8am and complete before noon time, again, I'll have a lot of offsetting generation from solar. My Rav4 almost never needs a full recharge because its my wife's car and she only runs errand in it during the week from time to time. I use it on weekends, but still mostly for short drives here and there.

I used Nidili Technology's iPhone app, PG&E Toolkit to analyze and compare all the different rate plans year to date, using only the current rates. It projected EV-A, EV-B and E-7, as my best options, in that order. In each case, I had a credit of several hundred dollars, but at 4 cents per kWH after accumulating a projected annual excess generation of ~630kWh, it hardly matters.

Bottom line, with ample solar for my current needs, I should never have to pay for any electricity again (other than typically, the under $5/month service fees).

 

[miimura]

Bottom line, with ample solar for my current needs, I should never have to pay for any electricity again (other than typically, the under $5/month service fees).

My point is that I expect that the billing for the sub-meter pilot will be completely outside of your NEM agreement so you WILL have to pay for that electricity.

 

[dstjohn99]

Bottom line, with ample solar for my current needs, I should never have to pay for any electricity again (other than typically, the under $5/month service fees).

My point is that I expect that the billing for the sub-meter pilot will be completely outside of your NEM agreement so you WILL have to pay for that electricity.

If that turns out to be the case, then just use the trial JB once a week for a light charge to maintain the sub-meetering usage, and charge with your current method on a regular basis. You can drop out of the trial at any time, but I will wait until the full rebates are paid, then continue if it is worthwhile.

 

[Dsinned]

Miimura, you're point is well taken. I see what you are saying may actually not benefit people with solar. Do you believe that the PG&E Toolkit app is flawed in that regard? Perhaps so, because how can it be used to analyze or "project" the cost of E-9B or EV-B rates without examining any actual data collected from a separate meter?

With only a primary meter, there is no way to distinguish when and how much the data collected was from the electrical power consumption solely by an EVSE charging station. Thus, the app can only be looking at the data from the "primary" meter as "whole house" consumption, and assuming the would-be secondary meter had zero consumption.

Since I will have two JuiceBoxes during the trial, one without and the other with a WiFi submetering link to OhmConnect, I could easily do as jstjohn99 suggests, or just bite the bullet for a few months while participating in the trial 100%.

The submetering trial allows for up to 100 households with solar (and NEM) to participate in the EV-B EVSE pilot. If what we are discussing here is "how it works", then I suspect it will be difficult to sign up that many just for a free JB. Nevertheless, I'm going to give it a go and see how everything turns out, since I want to store my old JB in the back of my RAV4 and continue using it for portable (opportunity) charging only.

After the trial I may switch them back, because my old JB has been customized with local display instrumentation, including extra AC sensors for remote monitoring up to about 150' away. The submetering JB has no local display instrumentation, but still can be monitored remotely (via WiFi) using a new cell phone app. As such, after the trial is over, the submetering JB may turn out to be a better choice for portable use only. At that time, I will probably change to the EV-A rate plan and resume taking advantage of lower electricity cost with a solar rooftop.

 

[miimura]

I'm not trying to make a blanket statement about the applicability of EV sub-metering with solar, I'm just saying that if you are close to $0 true-up with your EV charging included, you will almost certainly be paying a lot more for EV charging with sub-metering. For someone that has a smaller solar system that does not cover their EV usage, it might make some sense to sub-meter the EV.

In order to properly analyze your situation for sub-metering, you would have to back out your EV usage from your main meter data and recalculate the bills. The PG&E Toolkit App does not have a method to modify the underlying data in this way. The sub-metered pricing on EV-B is trivial to calculate because there are no tiers.