California Electric Vehicle Submetering Pilot Program

[dstjohn99]

dstjohn99, you must of got one of the first units to ship. I follow this (and the Leaf forum) fairly closely and have not heard of anybody else getting one yet.

I have a few questions for you.

1. Is its physical appearance the same as the pre-existing JuiceBox Basic with an external WiFi antenna.

2. Without a front panel user interface, with WPS, how does it know how to connect to your WiFi home network?

3. Is there any feedback available to you via OhmConnect (or EMW) that it is recording data via the submeter function?

4. Did it have a special label with any operating instructions or come with a manual?

5. Did it come with a wall mounting bracket?

TIA for the information.

I think I was one of the first to sign up. Also, I traded emails with George at EMW a few times since I had an order number and mine was already paid for. He and Valery are very helpful. A few weeks ago I followed up because my openEVSE firmware went haywire and I was without a charger. I asked for a potential ship date and George said they were just finishing some of the first units for shipment (they had a few interface bugs to work out or something like that). I wasn't sure if I needed to rent a JESLA or what. George at the time said he was taking it to ship the next day. But it still took two more weeks so there must have been some other delay.

To answer your questions,
1) I think so - I've never had a JB before so I'm not sure - see photo below.
2) My unit came pre-programmed. There are some instructions for pairing it to your router (...hit the WPS button on your router, then push S1 button inside the JB within 30 seconds...), but in my exchange with George I provided my SSID and password so it was setup when I got it - connected immediately. I checked the attached devices on my router and it showed up.
3) Not yet. I just chatted with Matt on Ohmconnect and they hope to have something this week - probably a widget on the Community page that will show it is connected. Sounds like we're still in the works there, hopefully more usage info in the future.
4) Labels shown in photo. Only a letter and 3 page instructions at this time. Link to online instructions at http://goo.gl/qO9OjC - I haven't been there yet.
5) Yes, wall mount bracket and nice long (6') 14-50 cord.

 

[dstjohn99]

So who else on this forum is signed up with Ohmconnect? How long, how many points, did you invite others, do you participate in the Ohm Alerts reduce your use, etc?

I've been on for two months exactly, have 1175 points, and do practically nothing when the Ohmalerts come thru - I'm usually at work or otherwise away from home.

Please share any info. It seems like an interesting community with some posted comments, interesting utility sources map, etc. The usage analysis seems rudimentary. I'm not sure how it estimates; it only shows "devices," "refrigerator," and "always on." No info on Solar negative usage or other specifics. I'm a little hesitant to allow any additional outside control of my personal space (thermostat, other devices, etc.). But I'm willing to participate in the trial for the discounted JB.

By the way, anyone know how the rebate process even works? I have a lot of FAQs to read I suppose - both Ohmconnect (OC) and Electric Motor Werks (EMW).

 

[fromport]

1)How long
2)how many points,
3)did you invite others,
4)do you participate in the Ohm Alerts reduce your use, etc?

I've been on for two months exactly, have 1175 points, and do practically nothing when the Ohmalerts come thru - I'm usually at work or otherwise away from home.

1) email with confirmation : sept 30th
sign up with ohmconnect: sept 30th
2) 2678 (so $26.79)
1130 from demand response
1548 from ohmconnect connetivity
3) yes, friend signed up using my url, but never got any kudos for that.
asked on the forum (private message) about that but never got any response
4) yes, both me and my wife get email/text messages. We switch off any device we can, like espresso machine, delay stuff that use electricity like ovens/mixers.

Just hooked up my Nest thermostat I scored during blackfriday ($179 at lowes) so ohmconnect is now able to read/control my thermostat I guess.

What imho is a bit of a turnoff is the lack of updates on the time frame after opening an ohmconnect account about the next steps.
I can assume they are working very hard on their side of the project, would be nice to keep the people who signed a little bit better informed.

Looking forward to the JB because:
With our 2 rav4ev's a total of 1732 miles were driven electric in November.
Average is 3.83 miles/kWh a total of 533 kWh ($120) was drawn from the wall which is 65% of our total electric usage.
If/when I can get a rebate for the charging, that would be _awesome_ ;-)

 

[dstjohn99]

Looking forward to the JB because:
With our 2 rav4ev's a total of 1732 miles were driven electric in November.
Average is 3.83 miles/kWh a total of 533 kWh ($120) was drawn from the wall which is 65% of our total electric usage.
If/when I can get a rebate for the charging, that would be _awesome_ ;-)

Wow, that's a lot of electrons! Thankfully that's probably less than half the price of gas for the same miles, not counting any maintenance or wear & tear on a similar ICE.

 

[fromport]

Looking forward to the JB because:
With our 2 rav4ev's a total of 1732 miles were driven electric in November.
Average is 3.83 miles/kWh a total of 533 kWh ($120) was drawn from the wall which is 65% of our total electric usage.
If/when I can get a rebate for the charging, that would be _awesome_ ;-)

Wow, that's a lot of electrons! Thankfully that's probably less than half the price of gas for the same miles, not counting any maintenance or wear & tear on a similar ICE.

I calculated I need a 4 kW Solar system to offset my EV costs.
I have 6 kW in storage since this is a rental home with so much shade.
Only right way to do it is put on the roof, but my landlord doesn't want to co-operate :-(

 

[Dsinned]

Thanks dstjohn99! You answered my questions. However, the link you provided does not work.

It looks just like the "Basic" JuiceBox, although the WiFi antenna is attached at the bottom (I would of preferred the top), and there is now an additional label for OhmConnect. I assume the mounting bracket is included or did you have to order that separately? Does it come with a 32A, 25' long, orange output cable? Just out of curiosity can you take another closeup picture of your JB with the front panel removed so we can see what it looks like inside the enclosure?

I signed up with OhmConnect at least two months ago and have been getting "alerts" every few days. My points total is close to 1000. Alerts usually come in the early evenings when I'm still at work, so I cannot do anything to reduce my home electrical consumption. Some alerts are earlier than others, when the Sun is still out. Thus, I often have a "negative" consumption reported by OhmConnect while my solar system is still generating. None of these types of web services seem to work very well with solar in the mix.

My JB (pre-trail) has been keeping track of all my home EV charging consumption since the middle of last Summer. As of this morning, the total JB consumption was up to 826kWh with a calculated savings in equivalent ICE gasoline costs, based on $3.50/gal, of $280. I can only guess how many miles I've driven both my EVs in that time; probably in the neighborhood of 2 to 3 thousand miles.

I believe the JB trial rebates come back to you in 3 phases totaling around $500. You get one initially after verification as a registered account holder with OhmConnect and thus qualified to be in the PEV trial with your utility company. Then a second one after your first monthly billing statement on the submetering EV-B rate plan, and a third after 3 months in the program, or something like that.

 

[dstjohn99]

Thanks dstjohn99! You answered my questions. However, the link you provided does not work.

I assume the mounting bracket is included or did you have to order that separately? Does it come with a 32A, 25' long, orange output cable? Just out of curiosity can you take another closeup picture of your JB with the front panel removed so we can see what it looks like inside the enclosure?

I fixed the link above, they were O's not 0's. Yes the wall bracket came with. I upgraded the cord at additional cost. I'll get the photo soon.

 

[Dsinned]

That's certainly nice to know that the wall mounting bracket is included! One other "nice" accessory (available from Home Depot) that should be included is a hanger to coil up the output cable when not in use:

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Liberty-Garden-Heavy-Duty-Wall-Mounted-Hose-Rack-691/100327997

Or, one of these, which is even cheaper ($1.47):

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Everbilt-4-in-Handy-Hook-01209/202305424

 

[dstjohn99]

Just out of curiosity can you take another closeup picture of your JB with the front panel removed so we can see what it looks like inside the enclosure?

 

[Dsinned]

Hmmm . . . looks fairly sparse inside. I guess a good portion of the electronic components are surface mount soldered on the underside of the PCB. The relay appears to be mounted inverted, maybe to make it easier to connect the dual set of conductors to the J1772 output. The WiFi is connected on the bottom to the external antenna now. I guess there was a good reason, but I think it be better to connect to the top of the enclosure where there are no obstructions from the I/O cable connections.

Is that the "WPS" button visible just to the right of the CT?

One other observation . . . looks like there is a "neutral" (white) wire on the input which has been cut off since it is not used.

What version of the PCB is being used inside your PEV Pilot ready JuiceBox?

 

[srl99]

Yes, that black button is pressed to connect via WPS. There's high voltage in the box when you have it plugged in (necessary to connect to WPS), so it is highly preferable for them to pre-configure the WiFi. If you have the ability, you might configure the WPS with a 110VAC adapter (would be enough to power up the electronics).

The LEDS are on the bottom side of the board - which just seems wrong to me.

The WiFi antenna on the bottom of the box may very well be to increase the odds of keeping water out of the innards.

The only input cable available is 14-50, neutral isn't used.

Can anyone independently verify the charging power consumption shown by EMW? It will NOT be fun(ny) to overpay for kWH used to charge the EV!

Miimura is on target for folks in the PG&E Service Area - you will probably only save money if you have a lot of peak period (AirCon? summer) needs. Otherwise, the EV rate plan might be a wash, or better if you can shift much of your household use to off peak.

Hmmm . . . looks fairly sparse inside. I guess a good portion of the electronic components are surface mount soldered on the underside of the PCB. The relay appears to be mounted inverted, maybe to make it easier to connect the dual set of conductors to the J1772 output. The WiFi is connected on the bottom to the external antenna now. I guess there was a good reason, but I think it be better to connect to the top of the enclosure where there are no obstructions from the I/O cable connections.

Is that the "WPS" button visible just to the right of the CT?

One other observation . . . looks like there is a "neutral" (white) wire on the input which has been cut off since it is not used.

What version of the PCB is being used inside your PEV Pilot ready JuiceBox?

 

[fromport]

Yes, that black button is pressed to connect via WPS.

That is going to be interesting.

I don't have a "WPS" on my wifi. So unless I give them my key, or I can use some ftdi interface/serial console to set my WPA2 key, it won't work.
I also hope that I will be able to limit my current to 24 amps somehow.
Time will tell.

 

[srl99]

Ask EMW to limit yours to 24A.

Yes, that black button is pressed to connect via WPS.

That is going to be interesting.

I don't have a "WPS" on my wifi. So unless I give them my key, or I can use some ftdi interface/serial console to set my WPA2 key, it won't work.
I also hope that I will be able to limit my current to 24 amps somehow.
Time will tell.

 

[dstjohn99]

Ask EMW to limit yours to 24A.

Yes, that black button is pressed to connect via WPS.

That is going to be interesting.

I don't have a "WPS" on my wifi. So unless I give them my key, or I can use some ftdi interface/serial console to set my WPA2 key, it won't work.
I also hope that I will be able to limit my current to 24 amps somehow.
Time will tell.

I just downloaded a beta App for the JB. It allows monitoring of the actual charge power, provides stats, AND allows you to set your max charge rate (assuming your are connected to wifi). It is only available through the Emotorwerks Facebook JB power users group, and jumping through several hoops to join, sign up as a beta tester and download. I haven't been able to use it yet - I won't need to charge until tomorrow night.

Edit: FB link https://www.facebook.com/groups/juicebox.powe/

 

[dstjohn99]

One other observation . . . looks like there is a "neutral" (white) wire on the input which has been cut off since it is not used.

What version of the PCB is being used inside your PEV Pilot ready JuiceBox?

Looks like srl99 answered several of your questions. I have no idea what version of the PCB is used, maybe I can take a look later. Yes the 14-50 neutral wire is cut. As mentioned the LEDs are on the underside of the board. I understand the JB uses a trim pot to set current, but if the trial version (firmware v8.10) is configurable via App / wifi then I assume this has been changed to a firmware control? Maybe the firmware max setting is limited by the trim pot setting? The instructions I got with the JB still reference trim pot R20 for 240V current and R25 for 120V; Hmmm.

 

[dstjohn99]

Can anyone independently verify the charging power consumption shown by EMW? It will NOT be fun(ny) to overpay for kWH used to charge the EV!

I'll be watching this closely over the next few weeks. I'm with SDGE so I can provide data for the SD area users. I imagine the JB must meet some sort of calibration req't. I doubt the utility will allow data that under - reports the usage, and they may get in trouble if they over-charge so I would think the unit must be utility grade capable / certified.

 

[srl99]

I don't have the link handy, but you can read the CPUC "letter" on this yourself with some clever searching, maybe OhmConnect has a link on their web site. They are "required" to be +/- 5%, but users with JB power measurement don't seem to be convinced the current measurement is correct - the voltage measurement seems OK. Given 500 participants, I doubt the utilities will check the accuracy - this is ~500 fleas on 3 elephants.

PG&E, for example, already bills residences about 2X the national average. To sell some kWH at ~the national average, off peak, when they are still getting a huge profit (on those off peak kWH) won't cause them to switch to domestic caviar in the executive suite.

Can anyone independently verify the charging power consumption shown by EMW? It will NOT be fun(ny) to overpay for kWH used to charge the EV!

I'll be watching this closely over the next few weeks. I'm with SDGE so I can provide data for the SD area users. I imagine the JB must meet some sort of calibration req't. I doubt the utility will allow data that under - reports the usage, and they may get in trouble if they over-charge so I would think the unit must be utility grade capable / certified.

 

[Dsinned]

My pre-trial JB with V8.7 firmware is capable of measuring near real time (and cumulative) kWh. I also have several "independent" measurements that can be used to correlate with my JB.

I added my own AC current and voltage sensors to the JB. The real time kWh measurement from these are power factor corrected for reading out remotely on an Efergy True Power Meter (TPM). I would say the native JB AC measurements (assuming unity PF) are within +/-1 to 3% of my TPM. Pretty darn close!

I can also correlate another way by using a Rain Forest device driven by my main utility meter on the outside of the house. But that measures at the source of AC power, not at the JB itself, where the dedicated AC voltage and load current can be measured more accurately. Nevertheless, in the middle of the night when only a negligible amount of vampire loads are still energized throughout the house, the Rain Forest measurement still correlates fairly closely to the load presented by the JB while charging my EV.

Yet another way to correlate would be by using PG&E's "Green Button" database, which is really the same data taken by the Rain Forest device for the "whole house". However, I believe PG&E's data is only being sampled (i.e. "recorded") every 15 minutes, while the Rain Forest samples every minute, and Efergy every 15 seconds. Obviously, the Efergy data - dedicated to the JB as a single load circuit - provides the highest accuracy for correlation purposes.

 

[Dsinned]

I just downloaded a beta App for the JB. It allows monitoring of the actual charge power, provides stats, AND allows you to set your max charge rate (assuming your are connected to wifi). It is only available through the Emotorwerks Facebook JB power users group, and jumping through several hoops to join, sign up as a beta tester and download. I haven't been able to use it yet - I won't need to charge until tomorrow night.

Edit: FB link https://www.facebook.com/groups/juicebox.powe/

I presume this is an Android app, right? I have an iPhone, so I guess I'm just SOL for now. :roll:

 

[srl99]

I find it difficult to separate EV use from other house use to accuracy sufficient to reassure me the "submeter" bill is correct, comparing against house meter. Rainforest show .3-.5 kW background house use, which includes vampires, Mr Cool and Mr Frosty.