OK to drive with BMS_f038 code?

[alflash]

...
https://asavage.dyndns.org/Toyota/RAV4/EV/Owners_Rigs/Al's_2014_Blue/Contactor_Repair_202408/20241201.mp4 (20Mb)...

1. Charger data block data in Time? For example, like in

and/or in

2. Why in this your video Pilot Current = 0A, Contactor State is Open?
3. Can you now check the actual data of this pilot signal? as show e.g. video about oscillograms of the (charge) pilot signal of RAV4EV
Charger state and sub-state during the steps of self-attempt/checking the charge?

Does your charger do those pre-check stages/steps (that show in viseo)?

 

[asavage]

The EVSE is provisioned/configured to provide 40A, and has been in service for months, charging a 32A OBC in a '19 Bolt, without issue. I do not suspect a faulty CP from the EVSE.

In my video, the Charger State never leaves Standby.

The contactors do not close for charging. They do not close when not charging (nozzle not inserted to charge port), attempting to drive.

 

[alflash]

The EVSE is provisioned/configured to provide 40A, and has been in service for months, charging a 32A OBC in a '19 Bolt, without issue. I do not suspect a faulty CP from the EVSE.

In my video, the Charger State never leaves Standby.

You write that yours "EVSE is provisioned/configured to provide 40A, and has been in service for months, charging a 32A OBC in a '19 Bolt".
Ok! But I was asking about the actual pilot signal data currently/now and on this RAV4EV*.
The reason for this question is that the charger "sees" that an EVSE is inserted into the charging port, but it does not show the set current consumption from the AC network.
Is your Bolt currently/now charging from this charger?
I apologize in advance if my question seems stupid and/or inappropriate to you.

The contactors do not close for charging. They do not close when not charging (nozzle not inserted to charge port), attempting to drive.

Is there a "Check EV System..." message now and is there a DTC P312f in Toyota now?
A trivial question: is the "Contactor" fuse good?

*

 

[Boris_P]

Я подключил аккумулятор, контакторы не замыкаются. У ТПД нет ошибок, и зарядка не происходит. Я случайно проверил Сервис Отключение. Посмотрите 10-секундное видео TPD ниже, контакты разомкнуты, отображается напряжение аккумулятора. Сигнал Pilot Current (подключенный к EVSE, настроенному на 40 А) переключается с 0 на 40 А при включении заряда.

https://asavage.dyndns.org/Toyota/RAV4/EV/Owners_Rigs/Al's_2014_Blue/Contactor_Repair_202408/20241201.mp4 (20 Мб)

Я снял блок с машины, снял крышку пентхауса, ничего необычного не обнаружил. Я отсоединил разъем контакторов от платы BMS и подал ~12 В на каждый контактор через регулируемый/ограниченный по току источника питания, и оба контактора работают (звучат правильно). Затем я проверил устойчивость высокого напряжения через контакторы: ОК.
Тестовые точки принимаются:

• отового токового шунта к клемме высокого напряжения внизу для контактора со стороны водителя
• от сервисного разъединительного контакта к клемме высокого напряжения на контакторе со стороны пассажира.

Напряжение и ток, необходимые для работы сменных контактов, аналогичны испытанию одного из снятых контактов.

Я планирую снова подключить пакет к автомобилю и использовать SMT, чтобы получить больше информации, так как TPD не дает многого. Здесь ниже нуля, все покрыто льдом. Посылка сейчас находится в доме, но автомобиль снаружи. На этой неделе я отправляюсь в свой ежегодный отпуск в солнечном климате, но поработаю над этим больше, когда приеду, если позволит погода.

Hello. Please tell me how the problems arose that the contacts did not close? Have you found the reason? I have exactly the same situation, I still can’t understand what happened, the car came in for repair under its own power, everything worked, I changed the contactors, and that’s it, they didn’t turn on , this is the first time this has happened to me. Thank you

 

[asavage]

Mostly due to local weather, I have not touched this car in three months, so I have no new progress to report.

 

[Boris_P]

Mostly due to local weather, I have not touched this car in three months, so I have not new progress to report.

the situation is really very strange and almost a dead end, at this point in time I have run out of all assumptions about what could happen, I have rechecked everything many times, everything is fine, but BMS does not want to turn on the contactors, I did not change anything in the car except contactors, and I could not damage anything either, I have a lot of experience I know RAV4EV well and repaired almost everything in them , and there were very difficult repairs , but the simplest task and I'm at a dead end , some kind of mysticism . Today I want to connect SMT , maybe SMT will clarify something , TPD does not see any problems , there are no errors regarding Toyota Techstream either , everything is fine, everything is fine, there are no errors BMS_f023 either, and the contactors do not work.

 

[Boris_P]

alflash, Vladimir Petrovich, hello!do you have the most extensive experience in repairing RAV4 EVs, have you ever had similar situations as mine and the problem described above with asavage? you can Is there anything you can do to help with this task? I can tell you the whole chronology in detail, I can provide you with any diagnostic data. or I can give remote access to TPD from my computer, I use the old version, I always work with it and there were no problems before. I will answer any of your questions. this is a really interesting repair situation, as I see savage has a similar problem Thank you in advance

 

[Boris_P]

bms data, all OK

 

[Boris_P]

problem solved

 

[Boris_P]

Mostly due to local weather, I have not touched this car in three months, so I have no new progress to report.

the problem is that the high-voltage circuit breaker is not fastened correctly, it can be fastened in two positions, both are fixed, but it will only work in one correct position!! install it correctly and your Ravik will go too

 

[asavage]

The orange Service Disconnect under the passenger seat, that plugs in here?




Or the HV fuse at the forward junction box (front end of battery case)?

 

[Boris_P]

Unfortunately, I don’t speak English, the video is in Russian, but I think the meaning will be clear to you

 

[Boris_P]

Оранжевый сервисный выключатель под пассажирским сиденьем, который здесь сидит?

уes

 

[asavage]

YT's auto-translate worked OK, so I followed along. Thank you for sharing this discovery! I, too, have had the Service Disconnect out many, many times on several vehicles, and I even double-checked it on this project, because it has been mentioned before that errors can be attributed to the Service Disconnect not being fully installed, but your video illustrates exactly how to duplicate the problem.

I've marked-up a couple of stills from your video to post here so I can refer to them easily later.

 

[alflash]

Take a look at the illustration of this malfunction, which is one of the possible causes of the BMS_f062 code

Screen from video

 

[asavage]

Today, the weather was warm enough and also importantly dry enough to work on this car. I reinstalled the HV battery (only six bolts of eighteen total, in case I had to remove it again), and the HV contactors now close, it goes into Drive, and the LDU does turn the wheels (still up on stands). I have ABS, Brake, and PS warnings, and it still will not charge. The car knows when the charge nozzle is inserted -- will not allow Drive -- but no blinky light in the LR window.

Of course! I did not have my diagnostic laptop at the car today, and I was really worn out installing the battery anyway, so I'll chase the no-charging another day. It's supposed to rain for the next five days.

Thanks, again, Boris.

 

[asavage]

You write that yours "EVSE is provisioned/configured to provide 40A, and has been in service for months, charging a 32A OBC in a '19 Bolt".
Ok! But I was asking about the actual pilot signal data currently/now and on this RAV4EV*.
The reason for this question is that the charger "sees" that an EVSE is inserted into the charging port, but it does not show the set current consumption from the AC network.
Is your Bolt currently/now charging from this charger?

Sorry for the tardy reply; I have not had good conditions to work on this until recently. You had asked the correct questions.

I had a helper who watched the TPD screen while I plugged in the charging nozzle. The helper saw that the Pilot Current field would display 40A briefly, before changing to 0. Reviewing the video I'd posted earlier, I can see that the evidence was there also, and that I'd mentioned it.

Instead of putting the 'scope on the CP line, instead I tried the Toyota L1 EVSE, which charged OK. I then took my known-good EVSE from home to the worksite (the EVSE I have owned and used with this car since 2017). (these are 60 mile round-trips) And it charged for >1 hour without issue.

The charging issue I saw appears to be an issue with the EVSE at that location, which displays a "failed diode check" error when the nozzle is first inserted, and when I disable that check (it's configurable, being an OpenEVSE), it then just silently fails. It was purchased last July and has had several problems which were mostly handled by last September, and it continues to give no issue with the '19 Bolt, which it charges daily. I will pursue a repair with it. Meanwhile, I am reassembling the covers and guards on this car in preparation to resume driving this EV.

I have a remaining concern: I have not heard the repaired dehumidifier run yet.

 

[alflash]

Can you check/trace the pilot signal when trying to charge with an oscilloscope?

 

[asavage]

I have an OBC logic breakout harness installed; therefore, I have easy access to a CP test point.



I had my 'scope with me, but swapping between the three EVSEs showed that it's more likely an EVSE issue than a car issue, and I ran out of daylight anyway. I'll be going back to the car today, and stopping at the dealership for more underbody panel push pins on my way. You always lose or break few every time they're touched

---

The narration in your video above has me scratching my head. @0:24 it says:

"Once the circuit is closed, the EV can request a charging state by setting a resistor between the PP and PE wires."

That does not correspond to my interpretation of the signalling description at Wikipedia J1772, and esp. with the simplified schematic there:



On the EVSE side, the PP circuit (switch + two resistors)* is contained entirely within the nozzle, and does not interface with the rest of the EVSE at all. It does not signal a request by the EV, rather it assures the EV that there is a nozzle inserted, so the EV knows to not allow drive-away. Additionally, S3 signals imminent nozzle removal, signalling the EV to expect nozzle disengagment, and that the EV should discontinue current flow (reduces sliding contact wear, creates a safe disconnect status).

I suspect the narration was formed from a typo in the script, and that sentence should refer to CP, rather than PP.

* = The circuit shown above is for the CCS1 (primarily North America) implementation of J1772; I marked up and added info for the CCS2 version here sometime in 2022:



The PP circuit resistances in the CCS2 world include provision for untethered EVSE cables of varying current capacities, as noted in the PP section of the Wikipedia article. Genearlly, NA EVSEs have tethered/captive charge cables and don't need to implement the multiple-resistance scheme that is seen in other parts of the world, where the EV owner is expected to carry their own J1772 charging cable to the EVSE.