Check EV System warning message

[miimura]

Mine has been in the shop 1 week today. The Toyota field engineer came by both last week and today but no luck. Now they are waiting for a visit from the Tesla engineering guys from the bay area to further check it out. I know the dealership service tech is doing all he can and now is at the mercy of Tesla. I know they are trying all options before starting to replace VERY EXPENSIVE parts.

I think it's a little ridiculous that Tesla engineers travel to the failed cars. Toyota and their customers should not be at their mercy to that degree. There should be a testing procedure and Toyota should have Known Good parts to ship to the dealers for selective replacement. If they put in a KG part and nothing changes, then that's not the source of the problem and they can put the original back in. I understand that some of the problems people have seen with the RAV have been caused by poorly seated connectors and things like that, but there should be a diagnostic mode or something for the different modules to verify that they can talk to each other properly and log communication errors and the like. Toyota also shouldn't care so much about how expensive the modules are because they surely have some warranty claim agreement with Tesla.

 

[AvLegends]

Mine has been in the shop 1 week today. The Toyota field engineer came by both last week and today but no luck. Now they are waiting for a visit from the Tesla engineering guys from the bay area to further check it out. I know the dealership service tech is doing all he can and now is at the mercy of Tesla. I know they are trying all options before starting to replace VERY EXPENSIVE parts.

I think it's a little ridiculous that Tesla engineers travel to the failed cars. Toyota and their customers should not be at their mercy to that degree. There should be a testing procedure and Toyota should have Known Good parts to ship to the dealers for selective replacement. If they put in a KG part and nothing changes, then that's not the source of the problem and they can put the original back in. I understand that some of the problems people have seen with the RAV have been caused by poorly seated connectors and things like that, but there should be a diagnostic mode or something for the different modules to verify that they can talk to each other properly and log communication errors and the like. Toyota also shouldn't care so much about how expensive the modules are because they surely have some warranty claim agreement with Tesla.

Yup... I agree. The service tech said early on that Toyota kept saying to reseat connectors. He said that he has done that repeatedly and the components were not communicating. They (service department) are very frustrated with the Tesla side of things... that they don't want to reveal their "secrets" :roll: . I agree that having a few KG parts would be a good way to start the ball rolling to diagnose the various components. The tech told me last week that the two computers in the vehicle... the Toyota computer and the Tesla computer are not talking to one another. We'll see how long it takes for Tesla to come to the dealership! Tesla should be down immediately. Almost like a low priority is being given to the Toyota end of things. I wonder how long a new 110K Model S with 1800 miles would be sitting at one of the service centers with a similar problem? My guess is a Tesla engineer (or whole team) would be on the scene the next day! It's almost as if the Toyota bill has been paid and now we are driving some sort of "forgotten stepchild" :x . I just wish Tesla would step up to the plate in a timely manner.

My service writer is calling me every day with updates... I get the feeling he is very embarrassed how long things are taking to get resolved. I feel for him as I know it's not their fault! They are doing all they can on the dealership end.

 

[AvLegends]

Mine has been in the shop 1 week today. The Toyota field engineer came by both last week and today but no luck. Now they are waiting for a visit from the Tesla engineering guys from the bay area to further check it out. I know the dealership service tech is doing all he can and now is at the mercy of Tesla. I know they are trying all options before starting to replace VERY EXPENSIVE parts.

Toyota also shouldn't care so much about how expensive the modules are because they surely have some warranty claim agreement with Tesla.

It's Tesla that is the problem... not Toyota.

 

[miimura]

Mine has been in the shop 1 week today. The Toyota field engineer came by both last week and today but no luck. Now they are waiting for a visit from the Tesla engineering guys from the bay area to further check it out. I know the dealership service tech is doing all he can and now is at the mercy of Tesla. I know they are trying all options before starting to replace VERY EXPENSIVE parts.

Toyota also shouldn't care so much about how expensive the modules are because they surely have some warranty claim agreement with Tesla.

It's Tesla that is the problem... not Toyota.

Toyota could do more by insisting on having spares on hand.

 

[Vach]

Based on what I've been told, it is truly frustrating that Toyota techs become stuck at the mercy of Tesla. I don't think Toyota will sit back and let that happen for super long, otherwise they'll have to start dealing with lemons just because of CA law and time.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Based on what I've been told, it is truly frustrating that Toyota techs become stuck at the mercy of Tesla. I don't think Toyota will sit back and let that happen for super long, otherwise they'll have to start dealing with lemons just because of CA law and time.

They might not have any choice. The Lemon Law doesn't hurt the purpose of the car, and that's to sell 2600 in California in 3 years.

If they took every single one back and crushed it (as has been so famously done in the past), they wouldn't then have to provide warranty and parts service for 10 years. They might actually prefer that.

 

[Vach]

That's true. Even with full MSRP on buyback they might save money over 10 years.

 

[AvLegends]

But wouldn't you think Tesla has to warranty their part of the vehicle thru Toyota?

 

[miimura]

But wouldn't you think Tesla has to warranty their part of the vehicle thru Toyota?

I think that comes down to the supply agreement between Toyota and Tesla. Tesla has no obligation to the consumer. That's all on Toyota since they are the "manufacturer" that sold the car to the consumer. That's why I say Toyota could do more. There are a certain number of forseeable scenarios that Toyota could have prepared for with spare parts on hand. I'm not an auto industry insider, but I would imagine that they would have a certain quality level that any supplier has to meet. Let's say it's 95%. Toyota should be prepared to buy 5% spares with enough in advance to ensure timely supply to dealerships for service needs. If the failure rate exceeds that level then the supplier should have to replace failed parts at their own expense. Sure, the supplier could play games with whether or not the part should have been replaced or if it's actually defective, but Toyota should have a buffer supply so those issues don't affect the customer.

I think we've seen from this thread that even a 2% or 3% failure rate in the first 2,500 miles looks very troubling to the other owners and potential buyers.

 

[Vach]

But wouldn't you think Tesla has to warranty their part of the vehicle thru Toyota?

I think that comes down to the supply agreement between Toyota and Tesla. Tesla has no obligation to the consumer. That's all on Toyota since they are the "manufacturer" that sold the car to the consumer. That's why I say Toyota could do more. There are a certain number of forseeable scenarios that Toyota could have prepared for with spare parts on hand. I'm not an auto industry insider, but I would imagine that they would have a certain quality level that any supplier has to meet. Let's say it's 95%. Toyota should be prepared to buy 5% spares with enough in advance to ensure timely supply to dealerships for service needs. If the failure rate exceeds that level then the supplier should have to replace failed parts at their own expense. Sure, the supplier could play games with whether or not the part should have been replaced or if it's actually defective, but Toyota should have a buffer supply so those issues don't affect the customer.

I think we've seen from this thread that even a 2% or 3% failure rate in the first 2,500 miles looks very troubling to the other owners and potential buyers.

I agree with this 100%, wasn't a perspective I considered. I'm trying not to be pessimistic but it gets difficult with what seems like an errant choice for a partnership.

 

[AvLegends]

But wouldn't you think Tesla has to warranty their part of the vehicle thru Toyota?

I think that comes down to the supply agreement between Toyota and Tesla. Tesla has no obligation to the consumer. That's all on Toyota since they are the "manufacturer" that sold the car to the consumer. That's why I say Toyota could do more. There are a certain number of forseeable scenarios that Toyota could have prepared for with spare parts on hand. I'm not an auto industry insider, but I would imagine that they would have a certain quality level that any supplier has to meet. Let's say it's 95%. Toyota should be prepared to buy 5% spares with enough in advance to ensure timely supply to dealerships for service needs. If the failure rate exceeds that level then the supplier should have to replace failed parts at their own expense. Sure, the supplier could play games with whether or not the part should have been replaced or if it's actually defective, but Toyota should have a buffer supply so those issues don't affect the customer.

I think we've seen from this thread that even a 2% or 3% failure rate in the first 2,500 miles looks very troubling to the other owners and potential buyers.

I agree with this 100%, wasn't a perspective I considered. I'm trying not to be pessimistic but it gets difficult with what seems like an errant choice for a partnership.

I agree as well. Starting to feel that nice guys come in last and up to this point I have been very patient and too nice! Well the squeaky wheel is starting to get very squeaky and loud. We will see if I get some "grease"!

I do believe that the dealership has... and are doing everything they can and now it's up to Toyota and Tesla to get off their asses and do something. My patience is running very thin!

 

[swampy rav4ev]

I appreciate everyone engaging here, useful ideas and info. Sharing new info seems pretty helpful. We are in the wait-for-Tesla mode now, 1 week out at Marin Toyota.

 

[TonyWilliams]

My car will spend more time at the dealer. They were able to reproduce the "Check EV System" failure.

 

[swampy rav4ev]

I am counting 9 of us having these problems. That's 1.9% of the RAV4EVs sold in California through end of April. Looks like some of us got hit at low miles, others higher miles from what I can gather from these posts. If people interested, I will start a shared Google Docs spreadsheet to log all our issues, as this may come in handy for some of us. I have to say that we love this car and have really been enjoying it and want it back in our hands and reliable. It's funny, we knew we were going out on that leading edge but figured between Toyota and Tesla we're on pretty solid ground. Our friend with Tesla S is one seriously happy camper though he did say a friend with an S experienced it dying cold while out one day and Tesla showed up promptly with an S loaner and took his away to fix it (that what you get for spending nearly $100K!). Here in Marin we have the "advantage" of there being a Tesla service center right nearby, but that so far hasn't put the Tesla tech at the Toyota dealer very rapidly.

Still waiting for the Avalon Hybrid or plug-in Prius loaner from the dealer. Got them to take back the Scion, they gave us regular Avalon for now. Time to turn my attention to battery-hot rodding my 05 Prius...

 

[cwerdna]

It's funny, we knew we were going out on that leading edge but figured between Toyota and Tesla we're on pretty solid ground. Our friend with Tesla S is one seriously happy camper though he did say a friend with an S experienced it dying cold while out one day and Tesla showed up promptly with an S loaner and took his away to fix it (that what you get for spending nearly $100K!). Here in Marin we have the "advantage" of there being a Tesla service center right nearby, but that so far hasn't put the Tesla tech at the Toyota dealer very rapidly.

Tesla's service loaner policy I think changed recently.

As for between Toyota and Tesla, Toyota has FAR more experience w/making reliable cars and systems than Tesla. I own a Toyota. My parents have owned a few, one of which was handed down to me.

If you hang out on http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/forumdisplay.php/73-Model-S and look thru http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/10398-Model-S-Technical-Mechanical-Issues, you don't get really warm and fuzzy feelings about Tesla reliability. Some of problems like the windshield stress cracks some Model S cars experience is troubling, if in fact they aren't due to chipping. They also have some self-inflicted design issues (e.g. door handles that extend and retract are more points of failures and have failed for people, shiny door handles being too hot to touch w/the sun beating down on them, etc.).

To quote from http://priuschat.com/threads/prius-brake-recall-%C3%A2%E2%82%AC%E2%80%9C-a-little-more-information.76158/page-2#post-1061546 regarding forums from the former Prius Product Manager (a marketing person):

Me and Erica? We're "just Marketing" people perusing the boards. Our ability to collect information from owners here is limited to qualitative data - quantitative is either impossible or very unreliable, and therefore not suitable for satisfying regulatory requirements. It's much better for things like "do I need a third cupholder in the front?" and much worse for things like "my car doesn't feel like it's braking right." So is this statement CYA? If that's the term you prefer, ok.

I think I pointed to the post I made at http://priuschat.com/threads/entune-class-action-suit-anyone.111550/#post-1589545 and the stuff I linked to before.

It'll be very interesting to see if Consumer Reports gets enough respondents from Model S owners to be able to assign it a reliability rating. Assuming folks answer honestly, my gut feel so far is that it'll be below average.

 

[TonyWilliams]

It'll be very interesting to see if Consumer Reports gets enough respondents from Model S owners to be able to assign it a reliability rating. Assuming folks answer honestly, my gut feel so far is that it'll be below average.

I just went to an "all Tesla Model S" meeting last night, and I have to say that my gut feeling is they are all pretty happy even with occasional problems. I think Tesla will get over this hump, too.

They are pumping out revisions to the firmware on the car (version 4.5 coming out now) and beta firmware up to 5.0 being worked on. The service tech who came to our meeting said each revision has "thousands" of changes, most of which are not obvious to the end user.

Obviously, we don't get that with the Rav4. Toyota got sold 2600 of a product for a $100 million, and the product is getting delivered. If something physically breaks, Tesla will cover it. But, there won't be improvements.

 

[AvLegends]

As for between Toyota and Tesla, Toyota has FAR more experience w/making reliable cars and systems than Tesla. I own a Toyota. My parents have owned a few, one of which was handed down to me.

I'll second that! I have owned 8 Toyota or Lexus cars over the last 17 or so years and every one has been rock solid reliable. Never any real warranty issues or failures until now with the Rav4 EV. Maybe I have been lucky but I am a believer in Toyota quality. I think Toyota reliability is a large part of them becoming the worlds largest auto manufacturer. After experiencing my problems and reading about others here with regard to service I am starting to question the trust I placed in the Toyota/Tesla partnership with this vehicle. Tesla's drivetrain was a big part of the decision I made to buy this car. I guess the "toothpaste can't be put back in the tube" at this point and I am (as well as others here) at the mercy of Tesla (and how much fire Toyota can/will build under Tesla) to get the problems resolved.

 

[SeaMonster]

well, it happened to me again last night. I got the error screen and the car wouldn't go into gear. I turned it off and on again, and still nothing. I did that 4 times and then it went into gear and drove, but the error screen remained while I drove. The next time I started the car, everything went back to "normal".

 

[TonyWilliams]

Just got a call from the dealer, and the Tesla guys wanted to know exactly when the Check EV System occurred. They're still plugging away. Today, I've got the S.O.'s Infiniti G37 convertible, so it isn't all bad.

 

[SeaMonster]

Mine's going in tomorrow. They want to know exactly what behavior lead up to the event. Unfortunately I did nothing out of the ordinary. At least I get their Rav4EV loaner while mine is in the shop. Last time I was in for this issue, they kept it for two weeks before giving up.