Charging stopped due to system malfunction

[Rakesh Suresh]

@asavage @alflash
I finished putting back the OBC after replacing the fuses. I think I have connected everything except the cabin coolant hoses. Also, did a coolant purge. I am getting a BMS_f062 - Contactor power supply problem. It is also not going into Ready mode (which was working fine before I started working on it). I have checked the following common reasons:

1. 12V battery is good. Voltage is 13V
2. Put back the HV disconnect
3. I have checked that all connections visible in the picture is snug.


Do you have any theories why this could be happening. Could there be a bad connection in the HVJB?

 

[alflash]

1. https://forum.alflash.com.ua/download/file.php?id=3036

2.Replay this video (Probability 85%)


3.Show screenshot with data about "Battery Shipping" menu (Probability 10%).

4. Is "Contactor" fuse (underhood) good? (Probability 1-2%).

The Probability of event is IMHO.

 

[Rakesh Suresh]

Good news ! The car is charging now !

Wow, That was an easy fix ! Thanks @alflash
I had inserted the service disconnect with the handle at 45 degrees. Properly getting it to 90 degrees before inserting it was the key !

 

[alflash]

Good news ! The car is charging now !

Wow, That was an easy fix ! Thanks @alflash
I had inserted the service disconnect with the handle at 45 degrees. Properly getting it to 90 degrees before inserting it was the key !

Congratulations!

It remains to perform this procedure and carefully assemble vehicle

 

[Rakesh Suresh]

Now back to diagnosing the heater issue

Is there conductivity * on the "minus of HV voltage" line?

Yes. There is continuity at the negative terminals as well.

Can you check the heater control signal with an oscilloscope**?

Ordered an oscilloscope which will be delivered in a few days, but a dumb question. How do I tap into the signal to see the pwm waveform going into the heater. If I remove the heater plug, hvil will be broken, if I understand correctly.

When I tested with clamp meter, it showed zero current. Temp and fan was at highest setting when this was measured.

After the successful completion of the repair, be sure to repeat the measurements and compare their results with these

It's 2.51M, 2.51M and 241K, very close to the numbers posted in the picture. I will click a pic of this tomorrow and add it here.

@alflash Update: attached the pics. Oddly 2 of the resistances increased from 2.51M to 2.61M. The only difference is I charged the car fully now and the HV disconnect is properly inserted. Not sure if either of this should make a difference.

 

[alflash]

Now back to diagnosing the heater issue

Yes. There is continuity at the negative terminals as well.
...
Ordered an oscilloscope which will be delivered in a few days, but a dumb question. How do I tap into the signal to see the pwm waveform going into the heater. If I remove the heater plug, hvil will be broken, if I understand correctly.

When I tested with clamp meter, it showed zero current. Temp and fan was at highest setting when this was measured.
...

It's 2.51M, 2.51M and 241K, very close to the numbers posted in the picture. I will click a pic of this tomorrow and add it here.

Perhaps not the best (not the most civilized) way to connect oscilloscope probes, but simple, proven and without damaging the insulation of the wires
The needle/pin is inserted between the outer insulation of the wire and the rubber seal of this wire at the back of the connector.
Example in this photo.
https://alflash.com.ua/2019/to_rav4ev/connect.jpg

Hope this will be useful
https://alflash.com.ua/2019/to_rav4ev/cab_heat_w.png

​

Note. Connector D15, through which the supply voltage and control signal are supplied, does not have HVIL check contacts.​

​

 

[Rakesh Suresh]

Another reason for a blown fuse is a broken transistor.

Tested this today. They seem fine, no short.
Video: https://1drv.ms/v/s!AoMSicNQxi7y5W5Ksgbj23dlFuIT

The photo shows the check of a serviceable element.

Checked resistance of all elements. They are seem to be in the same range
Video: https://1drv.ms/v/s!AoMSicNQxi7y5W-G--nP3RXp3aNE

Will test the input signal next after the oscilloscope arrives

 

[alflash]

Tested this today. They seem fine, no short.
Video: https://1drv.ms/v/s!AoMSicNQxi7y5W5Ksgbj23dlFuIT



Checked resistance of all elements. They are seem to be in the same range
Video: https://1drv.ms/v/s!AoMSicNQxi7y5W-G--nP3RXp3aNE

Will test the input signal next after the oscilloscope arrives

• If the heater fuse is in good condition,
• if there are no such burns on the connecting contacts (attach.1)
  https://alflash.com.ua/2019/to_rav4ev/1contact.jpg
  
  
• if the IGBT transistors are in good condition,
• if rats have not chewed through the power wires of the pump of this heater (attach.2)
  
  
• if the heating elements are in good condition and not in such a condition (attach.3)
  https://alflash.com.ua/2019/to_rav4ev/3elem.jpg
  
  

then while the oscilloscope is being delivered/on the road, I recommend carefully examining the appearance of the radio components of the control board (attach.4)
https://alflash.com.ua/2019/to_rav4ev/4_board.jpg

HTH,

p.s. Unsuccessful attempts at repair by unknown

 

[alflash]

...
When I tested with clamp meter, it showed zero current. Temp and fan was at highest setting when this was measured.
View attachment 893 ...

Questions.

1. Before the current started flowing, was Zero Point Calibration done?
2. What were the readings on the screen?
   
   

As Reference.
RAV4EV Cabin Heater current at maximum load (with almost 4 kW):

 

[Rakesh Suresh]

Summarizing the results of the tests so far

If the heater fuse is in good condition,

I think based on the continuity that exists between HV terminals and cabin heater terminals, I presume they are in good condition.

if there are no such burns on the connecting contacts (attach.1)

I didn't get the location of this. Is this inside the sealed DC-DC convertor?

if the IGBT transistors are in good condition

Based on the video I posted earlier, no shorts between terminals on any of the transistors

if rats have not chewed through the power wires of the pump of this heater (attach.2)

No sign of damage to the wires.

if the heating elements are in good condition and not in such a condition

They all appear fine based on the resistance test.

I recommend carefully examining the appearance of the radio components of the control board

I did, couldn't find any visible evidence of damage.

Before the current started flowing, was Zero Point Calibration done?

I did not. However, to test if the clamp meter was working, I put the clamp on one of the wires of the 12v battery terminal and it read about ~20A, and after removing I recall that it showed a value that was very close to zero. I can redo the test.

What were the readings on the screen?

Ah ! I forgot to take a screenshot of that. However, I recall doing the math of V*I and it was only about ~200W. I did this test before I drained the coolant from the cabin heater. To re-do the test, I guess I need to connect the hoses back and refill the pink coolant?

 

[alflash]

Summarizing the results of the tests so far
...
Ah ! I forgot to take a screenshot of that. However, I recall doing the math of V*I and it was only about ~200W. I did this test before I drained the coolant from the cabin heater. To re-do the test, I guess I need to connect the hoses back and refill the pink coolant?

There is no need to perform "thermal torture" similar to this


You can easily see/determine the current that the heater consumes when turned on by the current surge from the HV battery using the program (video in the previous answer). I assume (IMHO) that turning on a low heating temperature (<25°C) for less than 10 seconds will allow you to see in the program an increase in current from the HV battery when the heating is turned on.

Using, for example, AnyDesk, we can make a joint video of what is happening on the diagnostic program screen and simultaneously under the hood and in the cabin. You film the turning on of the cabin heating with your smartphone, and I record the program screen. This way we will make a video illustration of such a check.

Another question. Is the sound of the heating pump working audible when it is turned on?

Note. I am not trying to guess, I am voicing possible reasons and those that I have encountered.
Off. Check your PM.

 

[alflash]

...
I didn't get the location of this. Is this inside the sealed DC-DC convertor?
...

Yes.
https://alflash.com.ua/2019/to_rav4ev/cab_h.jpg

 

[Rakesh Suresh]

Checked using the oscilloscope and clamp on meter with zero calibration. Also, verified that temp is not increasing.

Prep

1. Zeroing clamp meter - 20241005_205858.mp4
2. Continuity check of oscilloscope probes to the cabin heater plug terminals. I found that it was easier to connect oscilloscope probes to heater pcb. - 20241005_205648.mp4

Can you check the heater control signal with an oscilloscope**?

Doesn't look like a clean pwm and voltage seems low when the oscilloscope auto-ranged - 20241005_210439.mp4

what is happening on the diagnostic program screen and simultaneously under the hood and in the cabin

I did a screen recording but it didnt save properly. I will redo the test tomorrow and update here. It was 370V with 3-5A draw when the heater was on and 0.7A when it was off.

 

[alflash]

370V × 4A ~ 1480W(!). This is the power emitted by the heaters.

Unfortunately, the oscilloscope readings are unclear/incomprehensible/inexplicable.
Please, describe/show the connection points of its signal probe and ground probe.

Does the current from the battery change when setting different heating temperatures?

Can you hear the sound of the pump running when the cabin heating is turned on?

Update.
Disconnect the D15 connector and connect the signal probe to the RMI contact, and the ground probe to the GND1 contact of the D15 wiring connector (https://alflash.com.ua/2019/to_rav4ev/cab_heat_w.png). Oscilloscope voltage sensitivity = 5V/div, synchronization = Auto position, synchronization level approximately = 3÷5V, and by frequency = 5÷10 ms/div.
For a start, just a photo of the screen is enough

p.s. As reference.

 

[Rakesh Suresh]

Please, describe/show the connection points of its signal probe and ground probe.

I marked in blue. Left one is where positive was and right was where negative was.

Here is video from cabin and tpd screen -
https://1drv.ms/f/s!AoMSicNQxi7y5hU71C3EklLXznWY
(This video is with D15 still connected)

Does the current from the battery change when setting different heating temperatures?

Doesn't seem to change. Only fan speed changes it.

Can you hear the sound of the pump running when the cabin heating is turned on?

Yes. https://1drv.ms/v/s!AoMSicNQxi7y5hIyEnpxiTBen6E7

Disconnect the D15 connector and connect the signal probe to the RMI contact, and the ground probe to the GND1 contact of the D15 wiring connector

 

[alflash]

Сэр, я НЕ просил подключать осциллограф к плате управления нагревательными элементами!
Я никогда не делал такой проверки/подключения. И вам не советую! Я предложил подключить сигнальный щуп к контакту RMI разъема D15, а заземляющий щуп, например, к контакту GND1 или к другой "земляной" точке.

Я не несу ответственности за мошенничество.
последовательности ваших действий, которые я не рекомендовал.

Повторю иллюстрации. Это разъем (D15) для питания 12 В и управления нагревателем, к которому нужно подключить осциллограф.
https://alflash.com.ua/2019/to_rav4ev/cab_heat_w.png

На этой повторной фотографии в приложении показан пример сигнала управления обогревателем кабины. Настройки осциллографа для этой проверки были перечислены.

Вопрос 1. Был ли осциллограф подключен к контактам (прил. 2) 1 и 2 (напряжение питания от высоковольтной батареи)?
Вопрос 2. Видимые на экране осциллографа (приложение 3) импульсы с частотой повторения около 250 кГц (осциллограф настроен на 10 мкс/дел.) я (пока?) считаю помехами неизвестного происхождения.
Были ли в это время включены контакторы/активирован ли режим READY?

1. https://alflash.com.ua/2019/to_rav4ev/rmi_ac_control.jpg

2. https://alflash.com.ua/2019/to_rav4ev/conv.jpg

3. https://alflash.com.ua/2019/to_rav4ev/osc.jpg

 

[alflash]

...Here is video from cabin and tpd screen -
https://1drv.ms/f/s!AoMSicNQxi7y5hU71C3EklLXznWY
(This video is with D15 still connected)

Video "Screen Recording 2024-10-06 221416" is no sign of current flowing through the heating elements of the cabin heater. However, there is noticeable current consumption by the fan and possibly the PTC quick-heater*.

* https://www.myrav4ev.com/threads/what-should-i-expect-from-the-cabin-heater.2510/#post-29656

 

[Rakesh Suresh]

Was the oscilloscope connected to pins (attach.2) 1 and 2 (supply voltage from HV battery)?

When I did the test here, https://www.myrav4ev.com/threads/charging-stopped-due-to-system-malfunction.2692/post-31923, oscilloscope ground was connected to 2 and positive was connected to a heating element as there was continuity ( 2 ohm resistance between 1 and heating element I marked)

I will repeat the illustrations. This is the connector (D15) for 12V power supply and heater control, to which the oscilloscope must be connected

I did this yesterday and the interference we see is from that. Are the probe connections correct?

Were the contactors on at this time/was READY mode activated?

Yes. Ready mode was activated in all the photos/videos I have posted so far regarding the cabin heater issue that show measurements.

However, there is noticeable current consumption by the fan and possibly the PTC quick-heater.

The seat heater was not active during this test. When there is increased current draw I have noticed that the marked part in the pic below is vibrating and there is some noise coming from it. Is it the compressor?

 

[alflash]

When I did the test here, https://www.myrav4ev.com/threads/charging-stopped-due-to-system-malfunction.2692/post-31923, oscilloscope ground was connected to 2 and positive was connected to a heating element as there was continuity ( 2 ohm resistance between 1 and heating element I marked) ...

1. My worst guesses were correct.
Unfortunately, you did not listen to my recommendation to connect an oscilloscope to the connector (D15*) and check (compare with the example) the cabin heater control signal.
Therefore, at the moment we do not know whether this control signal comes to the heater...
What should we do? Or do you have your own test plan?

I did this yesterday and the interference we see is from that. Are the probe connections correct?

2. Excuse me, but I don't understand your photo

... The seat heater was not active during this test. When there is increased current draw I have noticed that the marked part in the pic below is vibrating and there is some noise coming from it. Is it the compressor?
View attachment 925

3. PTC Quick-heater has nothing to do with seat heating. It is an additional heater for the air in the cabin (there is a short description in the link).
The air conditioning compressor operates when cooling of the air in the cabin is required.
What is the set cabin heating temperature during heater checks?
What is the actual cabin temperature before the check?

*Attach1. Оne part of D15 connector photo (screen of QC Charge video)
https://alflash.com.ua/2019/to_rav4ev/d15.jpg

 

[Rakesh Suresh]

Excuse me, but I don't understand your photo

Aargh, sorry about the confusion and frustration caused to you. I thought the bottom right of https://alflash.com.ua/2019/to_rav4ev/cab_heat_w.png is D15. I will repeat the test properly soon. The screenshot above helped.

What is the set cabin heating temperature during heater checks?

In the screen recording of TPD, the temp was at "HI". Ambient temp was at 64 degrees F, but the compressor was running every 10 seconds or so.