Replacing battery contactors. Code clearing?

[Otmar]

Hello All,
I'm new to RAV4=EVs but experienced in other EVs and have scattered experience with Tesla Model S hacking.
I'm trying to help a local (Oregon) RAV4-EV owner with a pack contactor failure.
The 2012 RAV4 is on its second pack and at just over 100K miles is out of warranty. He says Toyota wanted $45K for a new battery. Ouch.

Fortunately I have a way to view some BMS parameters and saw a 038 welded negative contactor fault. There are a couple other faults (HWOC, EVIL) but I'm guessing they are triggered by the contactor fault. The voltage swing on the isolation test also indicated that the negative contactor was still stuck on.
Before pulling the pack, I'd like to insure this is the only issue and that replacing it will fix the car, so being familiar with similar contactors I gave the bottom front center of the pack a firm whack with a rubber deadblow hammer and was pleased to see that the contactor opened, at least for now. Clearly this is not a fix, but it should allow the BMS to start up for testing, at least I assume so since the Tesla systems usually recover well.

Unfortunately the BMS attempts, but does not start up. It has a precharge error, but the lack of contactor power and no HVIL (Which needs contactor power to turn on) make me think it's probably external to the BMS.
It looks like it thinks it is not getting contactor power from the car. I'd like to verify that, but my RAV4 wiring digram lists a "Contactor Relay" in the Instrument Panel J/B going to a blue wire on B8, and I'm at a loss to find that wire. Or even the 15A "contactor fuse" that the wiring diagram shows feeding the relay. The fuse is not listed in the owners manual. My wiring diagram access is through an independent shop service through Snap-On kindly offered by a friend with a shop, but of course the accuracy is suspect.
The diagram also lists a pyrotechnic disconnect next in series on the contactor power circuit before it goes into the pack BMS. (Same as a Model S) Can anyone clue me in on where that is located? Maybe I could probe it?

I still get the "Check EV System" fault. I have tried cycling the 12V battery power 5 times as I read on these forums, the fault persists.
I'm starting to suspect that maybe the Toyota won't send contactor power to the BMS as long as it is showing the faults. So maybe I should try clearing the Toyota codes.
I've tried two OBDII readers that don't connect. The Toyota solution I saw on one of these threads looks pricey. I saw a $500 cable and didn't check the subscription cost. I might be able to get the independent shop owner to bring his tools here to give it a try but first I'd like to ask here if there are any alternative methods to clearing the codes?

So, In short, because I can be long winded.
1) Is there a pyrotechnic disconnect, and if so where?
2) Is there a cheap way to clear the Toyota side error codes?
3) From your more experienced eyes, what am I missing in my assumptions?

Any advice is appreciated!

Thanks,
- Otmar

 

[jimbo69ny]

Wow sounds like you have done a lot of work on this.

I have been inside the battery pack and I didnt see a pyrotechnic disconnect anywhere. I havent seen one anywhere else either.

What Toyota codes do you need to clear? I purchased an OBD2 reader and I was able to clear an ABS code. The Toyota side doesnt have much on it, just normal rav4 info. The Tesla gateway in the rear has the good stuff.

 

[Otmar]

Thanks for the info on the lack of pyrotechnic disconnect. Maybe that's why I can't find it!
As I mentioned, the wiring diagrams I have access to are suspected to not be accurate.

I tried two OBD readers on the Toyota port and both reported a failure to connect. One was generic, and one was a ScanGuage II. I assumed the lack of OBD II support on the emissions label was the reason but maybe not? It's encouraging that you managed to get one to connect to the car port. Are you saying a OBD reader connected to the Tesla port as well? They never supported that on the Model S and the Tesla port on this one lacks a slot in the middle to allow me to plug a standard OBD reader in. I assumed it was all proprietary CAN with no OBD II protocol support.
Can you share what model OBD reader you used?
I wonder if they changed it in later years, this one has a MFG date of 10/12

I don't know what code the car is listing, since I have not connected to the Toyota side.
I have since learned of this TIS option, and am awaiting a dongle.
http://blog.obdii365.com/2017/09/18/install-toyota-techstream-12-02-024-on-windows-7/

In other news, I've found a part number for the upgraded Tesla replacement pack contactors in an old remanufactured pack. If the coil resistance is close enough, and if Gigavac will sell them to us, then I think they might be an upgrade for the RAV4-EV. Fingers crossed. Otherwise we'll just put in more of the Kilovac EV200s and replace them every 50K miles.

Thanks for the input!

-Otmar

Wow sounds like you have done a lot of work on this.

I have been inside the battery pack and I didn't see a pyrotechnic disconnect anywhere. I haven't seen one anywhere else either.

What Toyota codes do you need to clear? I purchased an OBD2 reader and I was able to clear an ABS code. The Toyota side doesn't have much on it, just normal rav4 info. The Tesla gateway in the rear has the good stuff.

 

[jimbo69ny]

I used the most expensive reader that harbor freight sold. It is the only one that will clear ABS codes. I did also have connection issues but it still allowed me to clear the ABS code that I had on my car.

As for contactors, every contactor I have come across has been the same just a different brand and sometimes different dimensions. There are two different kinds of contactors one with an economizer and one without. Inside of the battery pack the contactors are the version without the economizer. You can get any contactor without an economizer to replace them. I needed contactors with economizers so I took mine out and replaced them with versions that had an economizer attached

 

[alflash]

... The diagram also lists a pyrotechnic disconnect next in series on the contactor power circuit before it goes into the pack BMS. (Same as a Model S) Can anyone clue me in on where that is located? Maybe I could probe it?
...
So, In short, because I can be long winded.
1) Is there a pyrotechnic disconnect, and if so where?
2) Is there a cheap way to clear the Toyota side error codes?
3) From your more experienced eyes, what am I missing in my assumptions?

Hello,
1. Take a look Fuses (50A) Check in Video https://youtu.be/jMHu2x7RC_I
2. The fault code in EV System (DTC B312F) will be erased by itself, and the “Check EV System” message will disappear when there are no malfunctions on the Tesla Electric Propulsion System.
3. As I understand, Your RAV4EV need diagnosic with this software

by connecting with special Cable to DLC3 No.2. And read throuble codes (aka Alerts), e.g.

Update.Note to DTC P312F-448. "When a any malfunction occurs in the Tesla electric propulsion control system, an electric propulsion control system malfunction signal is sent to the power management control ECU from the EV gateway control ECU. When the power management control ECU receives this malfunction signal, this DTC is output".


Feel free to ask.
For example. RAV4EV Coolant Air Purge after Replacing Water Pump No.3 in video in https://youtu.be/JpTVJ-i6GCk , e.t.c.
1/2 Off. RAV4EV Remote Diagnostic (all Toyota System including all Tesla Propulsion Systems) Project:

 

[jimbo69ny]

... The diagram also lists a pyrotechnic disconnect next in series on the contactor power circuit before it goes into the pack BMS. (Same as a Model S) Can anyone clue me in on where that is located? Maybe I could probe it?
...
So, In short, because I can be long winded.
1) Is there a pyrotechnic disconnect, and if so where?
2) Is there a cheap way to clear the Toyota side error codes?
3) From your more experienced eyes, what am I missing in my assumptions?

Hello,
1. Take a look Fuses (50A) Check in Video https://youtu.be/jMHu2x7RC_I
2.
3.
To be cont.

Feel free to ask.
For example. RAV4EV Coolant Air Purge after Replacing Water Pump No.3 in video in https://youtu.be/JpTVJ-i6GCk , e.t.c.
1/2 Off. RAV4EV Remote Diagnostic (all Toyota System including all Tesla Propulsion Sistems) Project:

Are those your videos? Where did you get the program and data cable?

 

[alflash]

Are those your videos? Where did you get the program and data cable?

Yes, it is my videos.
The program, its activation code and cable were provided by one of the owners of Rav4EV, whom I helped to fix his Car.
p.s. Device* for Remote RAV4EV Diagnostic is selfmade and it work only with my laptop IP in Internet.
From the side where the car is located, it is necessary only connect to supply power (e.g. from the cigarette lighter in the cabin or from the Power Bank with 5 to 12 Adapter or from AC/DC converter), insert the cable into the DLC3 No.2 and turn on the ignition. Owner and/or or technician who repairs, can watch the process with the help of their computer, which is connected to my laptop through a Teamviewer.

Update. * https://youtu.be/Y10zSXJAngg