EXCESS 12v LOAD WHEN OFF - DRAINING 12 VOLT BATTERY

[GlennD]

My car has a ham radio that is relay controlled from the accessory switch. No power hooked up equals no draw. That does not stop the mechanic from blaming the radio for the draw down of my second leaf. I took the easy out and traded it in on my B. I am so happy!

In reality they are just parts changers and there is not an error code shown on their notebook they are lost! Real mechanics that really understand are rare but they do exist, just not at most dealers.

 

[Michael Bornstein]

A distressing situation. This brings up the subject of proper long term storage of the RAV4. Later this year, I will be away for 3-4 weeks and the RAV will sit in my garage for that time. Should I:
1. Do nothing - It has survived 2 week absences in the past with no trouble
2. Hook up a float charger to the 12V battery (a new Exide 24F AGM flat plate that I just installed last week)
3. Plug it in to my Leviton charger

My Volt will be similarly abandoned, but it will be at an airport parking structure so I will have little control over it.

BTW, Costco has Bridgestone tires on sale with a total of $130 in rebates on a set of four. You have to be an Executive member, order online (and ship to your nearby store for free) and use promo code: TIRES60C. The offer is online only, you can't get it at the store. I got a set of the Dueler Ecopia's for $534 complete including tax and installation. I will probably have to pay $12 at the store for the TPMS.

 

[miimura]

A distressing situation. This brings up the subject of proper long term storage of the RAV4. Later this year, I will be away for 3-4 weeks and the RAV will sit in my garage for that time. Should I:
1. Do nothing - It has survived 2 week absences in the past with no trouble
2. Hook up a float charger to the 12V battery (a new Exide 24F AGM flat plate that I just installed last week)
3. Plug it in to my Leviton charger

Definitely #2. A 12V battery maintainer/tender plugged into the wall is the best thing for a RAV4 EV that will be sitting in private garage. Alternatively, you could just disconnect the 12V battery.

Do not charge the car before storing it unless it is at a low SOC and do not connect the J1772 charging station.

I recently left my car for 9 days. For that period of time you don't really need to do anything, but I put it on a 12V tender and left the traction battery at 12 bars.

 

[Michael Bornstein]

Any recommended brands/models?

 

[TonyWilliams]

Any recommended brands/models?

Deltran is "the" original "battery tender".

http://www.batterytender.com/Chargers/


This is the one that I recommend for wet cell / AGM batteries:

http://www.batterytender.com/Chargers/Battery-TenderR-Plus.html


I also recommend this pigtail, so that you can easily plug in your battery tender (the unit I recommend above comes with this):

http://www.batterytender.com/Accessories/Ring-Terminal-Harness.html


They also have one that is optimized for GEL batteries (your Bosch battery is an AGM), so don't confuse the two.

Absorbed Glass Mat & Gel: what's the difference?

Gel Batteries

Gel batteries contain a gelled electrolyte which is "Thixotropic". This Thixotropic gelled electrolyte contains sulfuric acid, fumed silica, pure demineralized and deionized water, and a phosphoric acid. The electrolyte in Gel batteries does not flow like a normal liquid; it has the consistency and look of petroleum jelly.

Absorbed Glass Mat Batteries

In AGM batteries, the liquid electrolyte contains high purity sulfuric acid and totally demineralized, deionized water (no phosphoric acid). This electrolyte is trapped in sponge-like glass mat separators.

 

[Michael Bornstein]

Any recommended brands/models?

Deltran is "the" original "battery tender".

http://www.batterytender.com/Chargers/


This is the one that I recommend for wet cell / AGM batteries:

http://www.batterytender.com/Chargers/Battery-TenderR-Plus.html

Thanks Tony. Unfortunately the people in Sacramento are wiser than us :lol: and wont allow that model to be sold in
California. The replacement according to Amazon is : Battery Tender 022-0185G-dl-wh Black 12 Volt 1.25 Amp Plus Battery Charger/Maintainer

Is that also a recommended unit?

Mike

 

[TonyWilliams]

Thanks Tony. Unfortunately the people in Sacramento are wiser than us :lol: and wont allow that model to be sold in
California. The replacement according to Amazon is : Battery Tender 022-0185G-dl-wh Black 12 Volt 1.25 Amp Plus Battery Charger/Maintainer

Is that also a recommended unit?

Mike

I don't know about the other one. I personally have the original.

 

[smkettner]

$200 rescued my car from Carson today. No improvement with the Toyota battery and letting Carson play with it for a week.

Failed to charge at three different stations. Car seems to fail to recognize the main battery is 75% as it intermittently shows LO and says plug in immediately that of course fails.
After sitting a couple hours Ready mode comes up and I get home. Not sure when it will get it's next ride on a tow truck but it cannot be long.

 

[fromport]

$200 rescued my car from Carson today. No improvement with the Toyota battery and letting Carson play with it for a week.

Failed to charge at three different stations. Car seems to fail to recognize the main battery is 75% as it intermittently shows LO and says plug in immediately that of course fails.
After sitting a couple hours Ready mode comes up and I get home. Not sure when it will get it's next ride on a tow truck but it cannot be long.

I really think Carson has the most experience with the rav4ev (based on numbers sold)
Their behavaviour really surprises me.
Please keep us posted
Sorry you have to go through this

 

[TonyWilliams]

Carlsbad Toyota in North San Diego County has quite a bit of experience with these.

 

[smkettner]

Unfortunately it will end up at Costa Mesa or Irvine depending on when it fails next.
I am loath to pay for towing just so Toyota can replace or charge the 12v battery and declare it is fixed.

The 2 amp load continues as before to drain the 12v battery. Has dropped from 12.78 as I pulled in down to 12.22 so far this evening.
I am surprised the car even started at the dealer today for pick-up or maybe the lot boy jumped it.

If it has to go twice a week to the dealer so be it. Will just keep driving the old F150 until this is resolved.

 

[TonyWilliams]

The 2 amp load continues as before to drain the 12v battery. Has dropped from 12.78 as I pulled in down to 12.22 so far this evening.

OK, let's use some simple troubleshooting.

I'm going to guess right off the bat that's a load within the DC to DC.

You're gonna have to isolate where the load is coming from.

There is not a single electric powered thing you can't either pull the fuse or otherwise disconnect until you isolate the thing that is pulling the load.

1) put the 12v battery on a real battery charger with a 2 amp minimum charge (most trickle chargers are 1 amp or less)

2) put your ammeter on the battery

3) you've got a whole bunch of fuses under the hood; pull the fuses one by one. Obviously, I would start with the things that are powered all the time.

4) One thing that I can tell you for certain that is powered all the time on that car is the traction battery management system (BMS). It is probably easiest to crawl under the car remove the mid plastic under body panel and then find the large Molex connector that plugs into the battery pack. Unplug that one first. If the load remains then plug it back in and move onto the next step.

5) if you pull of the large plastic cover that says "TOYOTA" off the motor area (it has 5 screws that require a 10mm socket and extension), you will be able to see where the cable goes from the 12 old battery to the DC to DC. That is also one I would disconnect.

6) The gateway computer (the interface between the Tesla drivetrain and the Toyota car, plus an AT&T mobile phone) is a well known trouble spot. It is in the left rear corner of the vehicle; find the power to that and unplug it.

******

You can actually get the entire vehicle electrical wiring harness for either $50 or $100 through the Toyota repair website. I don't have it handy, but I know somebody else will. You can follow where every little bit of electricity is designed to go. Find the loads and illuminate them one by one in a logical manner until you isolate where this 2 amps is going.

1) confirm the vehicles under warranty

2) if you want to drive it down here to San Diego for an hour three, I will take a look at it as a personal challenge

 

[smkettner]

Yes I think I posted earlier that it was some combination of fuse 9 & 10.
That is the navigation and telemetrics afaik.

Remove these fuses and the draw stops cold. Re-insert and it stays off until the car is started and the navigation reboots.
I told Carson as much but I am just another crazy customer to them.....

To verify sleep mode I leave the hood up overnight and test in the morning without opening any doors etc.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Yes I think I posted earlier that it was some combination of fuse 9 & 10.
That is the navigation and telemetrics afaik.

Remove these fuses and the draw stops cold. Re-insert and it stays off until the car is started and the navigation reboots.
I told Carson as much but I am just another crazy customer to them.....

To verify sleep mode I leave the hood up overnight and test in the morning without opening any doors etc.

If it is "telematics", that means gateway to me.

Try and isolate it further.

 

[miimura]

Another owner took their car in for a similar problem and the dealership found the excessive electrical draw. It was fixed by replacing the whole Navigation in-dash unit under warranty. I looked for the post where I read this, but couldn't find it.

 

[davewill]

They just put a new battery in, correct? I would let the car sit for 24hrs or whatever it takes for the battery to go flat, then have it towed in (or maybe park it at the dealership and let it go flat there). Don't charge or jump it before they get to see the flat battery. If they replace the battery again, it'll be under warranty. Keep doing it until they really fix it. They'll get tired of seeing your car at some point.

 

[smkettner]

That is the plan. Just not geared up as my extra vehicle is loaned out this week.
No loaners around with all the Toyota recalls. 3,000 miles left on the warranty.

 

[smkettner]

On the truck this morning to Irvine Toyota. Service guy says he is going to open a ticket with Toyota.
I assume that means a better trained technician will pop in to look at it.

Fingers crossed. This episode will probably push me into an extended warranty.

 

[miimura]

If you're planning to keep the car, or even drive way over the 36k miles within the lease period, get the warranty. The one guy drove past the 60k powertrain warranty in the first 2.5 years of his lease and the car was un-driveable. What do you do when your leased car needs a $13,000 repair out of warranty? I don't know, but luckily Toyota stepped up and fixed his car.

 

[smkettner]

Was in the shop all last week with no resolution.
Claimed to have replaced the 12v battery again and an unidentified circuit board.
Really expecting some progress this next week.