EV+PV - Who Has It?

[Dsinned]

It truly is gratifying . . . up to 13.4kWh "payback" so far, just for the first 4 hours the system has been actively monitored!

https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/TRVh161550

These solar systems (albeit mine is fairly small) really are amazing how well they work. And on a day like today - sunny and clear - nothing could be finer.

If everybody drove electric cars and installed solar on their rooftops, there would be far less pollution, no more or fewer wars in the Middle East, and our planet will stay healthier for as long as we have the SUN to keep us going. Hopefully, that will be a couple more billion years! :mrgreen:

 

[waidy]

If everybody drove electric cars and install solar on their rooftops, there would be no more pollution, no more or at least far fewers wars in the Middle East, and our planet will remain healthy for as long as we have the SUN to keep us going.

You are not done until you change all your gas appliances to electric; and most importantly, cut off the gas pipe feeding to your house.

 

[jspearman]

If everybody drove electric cars and install solar on their rooftops, there would be no more pollution, no more or at least far fewers wars in the Middle East, and our planet will remain healthy for as long as we have the SUN to keep us going.

You are not done until you change all your gas appliances to electric; and most importantly, cut off the gas pipe feeding to your house.

I'm looking to replace my gas HW heater with a heat pump model. Anyone have experience or suggestions? No room for a solar unit, so that's out.

 

[waidy]

I'm looking to replace my gas HW heater with a heat pump model. Anyone have experience or suggestions? No room for a solar unit, so that's out.

Good for you. AO SMITH MODEL#PHPT-60 was good couple years ago when I was doing a research for the college Environmental/Energy Saving Class. It is a hybrid heatpump.

 

[waidy]

I'm looking to replace my gas HW heater with a heat pump model. Anyone have experience or suggestions? No room for a solar unit, so that's out.

Good for you. AO SMITH MODEL#PHPT-60 was good couple years ago when I was doing a research for the college Environmental/Energy Saving Class. It is a hybrid heatpump.

Sorry for the broken record, I meant to add that: Since heatpump uses the fan to take in surrounding hot air and produce cold air, I suggest you put it where your inverters are. This way, it will cool your inverters and give you higher efficiency on your solar PV system. I understand this is not all possible for existing houses but just in case if you have a choice of where to put your heat pump. I was lucky that I had a choice to put it when I built the house in 2004 (when Enphase was not born yet).

 

[RavTesla]

I just had installed today a 3.5kW solar roof system consisting of 14-250W polycrystaline PV panels and Enphase microinverters! The entire installation on my residence's 2nd story roof only took about 6 hours with a work crew of 3 installers + 1 electrician who returns tomorrow to finish the home run wiring and final connection to my existing power panel (didn't have the right kind of CB to finish today). I calculated the 240Vac side of the system will produce about 5000kWh per year total power from my SW facing azimuth PV array orientation. Fortunately, there will be virtually no shading although that took careful planning to avoid a late afternoon shadow cast by a neighbor's four, very tall, cypress trees, one house away. I will use an Enphase Envoy/Enlighten monitoring system to keep track of the overall system production including each solar PV module's performance. Total cost = $12,230, or about $3.50/watt (before 30% tax credit). All solar system components in the Powersaver Series 3000 (+ 500W extra capacity) and high quality workmanship in the installation was provided by PetersenDean. :mrgreen:

For information go here: http://powersaverseries.com/

Dsinned, I have two questions for you:

1. What made you decide to go with Powersaver Series 3000 and PetersenDean? There are SO many solar companies out there, it's hard to even know where to start. Did you do a lot of research, or did you have a referral, or something else? I am in Menlo Park and have been considering doing the same thing... which is why I ask. I just don't know which company to use.

2. Can you show me some quick math to demonstrate how much of your RAV4 EV energy usage is being offset by your new solar array? It's pretty darn cool to say your car is powered by the sun. Does your array produce enough energy to do that, plus more to cover your normal utility bill/usage? I realize the car offset is dependent upon miles driven per day...

Thanks in advance for the advice!

Woody
RavTesla

 

[SeaMonster]

In June I put in 21 SunPower panels providing 6.3 KW. I have a SunnyBoy inverter. I leased the system and put no money down. Prior to getting the Rav4EV I was making about $200/mo in summer and breaking even in winter. (That's factoring in energy costs saved, lease cost and credit earned.) Because I am in Marin we have Marin Clean Energy and they pay me better than PG&E for my excess generation. With the EV, I switched from an E-6 rate to an E-9 so I will make even more from the solar. I did the math and I do better on an annual basis by having a single meter rather than getting a new, separate meter for the EV.

Now I want to figure out how to run the system when the grid is off. To meet the code in the US, a grid-tie system must shut off when the grid goes down. My inverter will not run if there is no AC present. Adding a simple battery based inverter to fool it isn't sufficient. When the grid isn't there to absorb power, the solar inverter has to regulate generation to not overload the house. My inverter knows how to do that, but the capability is "disabled" in software. Also you don't want an automatic cut-over because then you would be pushing power into the grid which is down and that is dangerous. So my project is to figure out how to manually cut-over by disconnecting from the grid and enabling off-grid mode. If there is a major outage, I want to be able to charge my car!

 

[waidy]

In June I put in 21 SunPower panels providing 6.3 KW. I have a SunnyBoy inverter. I leased the system and put no money down. Prior to getting the Rav4EV I was making about $200/mo in summer and breaking even in winter. (That's factoring in energy costs saved, lease cost and credit earned.) Because I am in Marin we have Marin Clean Energy and they pay me better than PG&E for my excess generation. With the EV, I switched from an E-6 rate to an E-9 so I will make even more from the solar. I did the math and I do better on an annual basis by having a single meter rather than getting a new, separate meter for the EV.

I have a 25kW system split installed in two phases. The first phase is taking all my available roof area mounting PV panels. The 2nd phase in which I installed 1/5/2012 is a 7.36kW system on dual trackers. Since the 1st phase system was installed in 2004 there were not a over-the-net monitor system. The 2nd phase system so far produced over 20 MWh in a year.

Now I want to figure out how to run the system when the grid is off. To meet the code in the US, a grid-tie system must shut off when the grid goes down. My inverter will not run if there is no AC present. Adding a simple battery based inverter to fool it isn't sufficient. When the grid isn't there to absorb power, the solar inverter has to regulate generation to not overload the house. My inverter knows how to do that, but the capability is "disabled" in software. Also you don't want an automatic cut-over because then you would be pushing power into the grid which is down and that is dangerous. So my project is to figure out how to manually cut-over by disconnecting from the grid and enabling off-grid mode. If there is a major outage, I want to be able to charge my car!

You can install a battery backup system. I installed a battery backup system back in 2004. Being able to produce power and have power while the grid is down is great. You may find the spec and wiring diagram at waidy.com/solar for reference.

 

[jsnable]

I'm considering the same thing for my 4.7kW system (SunnyBoy/Sanyo). Midnite Solar is going to be introducing a pre-wired panel specifically for SMA inverters, integrating the Sunny Island off grid inverter with all of the bits to make it code compliant. I doubt it will be the cheapest solution, but it does look clean and takes full advantage of the ability of the SunnyBoy inverters to modulate their output.

http://www.midnitesolar.com/pdfs/mnsma_frontBack_web.pdf

They have a slide deck that lays out options for grid-tie with backup, but I couldn't find it offhand.

Jay

In June I put in 21 SunPower panels providing 6.3 KW. I have a SunnyBoy inverter. ... Now I want to figure out how to run the system when the grid is off. To meet the code in the US, a grid-tie system must shut off when the grid goes down...

 

[waidy]

http://www.midnitesolar.com/pdfs/mnsma_frontBack_web.pdf

looks good!! One question you may want to ask SunPower is that whether the battery packs are "maintenance free". Mine is totally maintenance free. I have not even open the battery cabinets since the install.

 

[SeaMonster]

The SunnyIsland is the obvious choice and a very good solution, but its really pricey. Each unit is a single phase, so I need two for my 240V SunnyBoy. If I am remembering right, they are about $5k each uninstalled. I also think I could live without batteries. I'm not looking to live off-grid or handle regular disruptions. I just want to know that if there was a major event (earthquake, storm, hacker taking down PG&E or whatever) that I could still charge my car and run my fridge/freezer during the day. The SunnyBoy can modulate its power output to match demand/load, but it won't do that by default unless connected to a SunnyIsland. I'm hoping I can find a way to switch it into a mode where it generates whatever power is being consumed, if the grid is off and the sun is shining.

I like the Midnite Solar link. That is nicely integrated. I am going to contact them. Thanks...

 

[Dsinned]

RavTesla, I was drawn to the microinverters made by Enphase (innovative, high tech, local company). This narrows the playing field to some degree. Another reason for a microinverter based PV array is that it lends itself to future "scaleability", and I did not like the idea of having traditional string inverters, which take up more space, and from what I've heard, make "humming" noises while operating. Enphase microinverters claim to be 96% efficient, which is another reason. They are a way to convert DC PV panels into essentially "integrated" plug-n-play AC power modules, allowing for a cleaner, asthetically pleasing rooftop array layout. The overall wiring requirements are much simpler and efficient too.

My system is rather small, only 3.5kW (dc), although I am thinking about adding more panels to bump up closer to 5kW. Even so, I still can make enough power to adequately cover most of my projected annual electricity needs (pre-EVs). However, I recently had a new HVAC system installed, so I expect my requirements this Summer to increase. In San Jose, we have maybe a dozen or two very warm days per year, so I do not anticipate my electric bill to go up that much. During the Winter, my NG consumption used by my central heating system is a whole different story. In the summer, my electric bill may actually decrease, because a solar system is so much more productive when the Sun is higher in the sky. In the Summer, I only need NG for my HW Heater. Winter is when I use the most electricity because my furnance runs almost constantly late at night and into the early mornings.

All my car charging needs at home will probably consume 50 to 60% of my entire annual electricity needs, but not the same ratio in terms of overall cost. This is because I switched to the PG&E's E-9A rate plan last September, so I only charge late night/early mornings when PG&E's "off peak" rates apply for EV homeowners. Those particular rates cost as little as from 4 cents per kWh, but much higher as you go up in tiers. My "baseline" (Tier 1) is 11.0kWh/day in the Summer, or 330kWh per (30 day) month, and 11.7kWh/day in the Winter, or 351kWh per month. I have been using about 250kWh more per month, since charging both cars since last November when I added the RAV4 EV to my household. I don't charge either car every day. More like once or twice a week per car. The RAV4 is only used for running errands and weekly grocery shopping, so recharging it once a week is enough. Each car is driven typically less than a couple hundred miles per month, but keeping them charged will contribute a lot to my electric bill for sure.

Overall, my electric bills "average" about 10 cents per kWh, so the size of my PV system is probably oversized in relation to my current power consumption. Again, I expect that to rise in the latter half of the year, so maybe my annual consumption will be closer to 5500 to 6000kWhtill not a lot, not a lot by comparison to the national average. It is too soon to say for sure, but should that much of an increase occur, my solar system will only be able to cover about 80% of that total consumption.

All well and good, but here is the really neat thing about the E-9A (or similar TOU) rate plans. TOU plans are weighted in your favor during late night/early morning "off peak" hours and on weekends (when I usually do charges to my RAV4). However, a solar system produces (and very likely OVER produces) during daytime weekday periods when the tiered rates are generally higher. Thus, the economics of all this may actually balance out, and I may pay NOTHING for electricity (after taxes of course) on average over an entire year. I may even earn some "SREC" credits by the time PG&E does it "true up" annual billing for grid-tied solar system homeowners. :mrgreen:

 

[Dsinned]

RavTesla, you also asked about selecting an Installer. Yes, I definitely did a lot of research, and wound up choosing Petersen Dean located in the East Bay. Why? Simple! They got to me with their TV commercials, hosted by the CEO of the company. These commercials reoccur weekly on KRON (Channel 4), every Saturday or Sunday morning. They are 1/2 hour, "paid promotional" segments on their solar installations and roofing services.

Here's the You-tube version: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JrCrN-6yjmY

PD prides itself on being a roofing company that also does solar, which I think gives homeowners more reassurance that the job will be done RIGHT. If you get a roof replacement from them as well, they knock $1000 off the price of a PowerSaver solar system! They also have their own in-house Electricians to complete all the electrical work; no subcontracting typical of other solar companies.

I paid what I think was a fair price at about $3.50/watt for my PowerSaver system. Plus, I paid even less per watt for an additonal 500 watts to customize the system. Why did I need to customize? The obvious disadvantage of a PowerSaver system is that there are only supposedly four possible choices; 1.5kW, 3.0kW, 4.5kW and 6.0kW, which consist of 6, 12, 18, and 24 x 250Wdc panels respectively. I initially opted for the PowerSaver 3000 (3.0kW) system, but revised my contract later (read on).

The panels used in my installation were all sourced by Canadian Solar and of the polycrystaline type. They appear to be made of durable, solid contruction, quality materials. They have a 10 year product warranty, and a 25 year performance warranty, i.e. panels are guaranteed to still produce up to 80% of their original maximum power rating by the 25th year of service. The Enphase M215 type microinverters also have a 25 year warranty. All good!

You may be asking, why isn't my system rated at 3.5kW, not 3.0kW? Well, it is, so Petersen Dean does indeed do some degree of customization, but you have to specifically ask for this if you want an "in-between" sized system, since PowerSavers are generally not adverised or sold that way. This is really the advantage of using microinverters, since PV modules are very easily scaleable using microinverters, and more cost effective that way. So, that is why I settled on 14 PV panels (3.5kW total DC output power) for my system, and may do an additional system expansion in the near future. Btw, the added cost for two additional panels, and microinverters, was only $2.80/watt, or $1300 fully INSTALLED. GREAT DEAL!

Best of all, with Petersen Dean, I was very actively involved in the equipment selection and planning process. I approved the engineering plans for the system BEFORE installation. I definitely liked being in the loop throughout the entire planning process (~7 weeks from start to finish).

If you wind up using Petersen Dean, please let them know I referred you. My sales contact was Paul and my project coordinator was Christine.

 

[TeCKis300]

I just had installed today a 3.5kW solar roof system consisting of 14-250W polycrystaline PV panels and Enphase microinverters! The entire installation on my residence's 2nd story roof only took about 6 hours with a work crew of 3 installers + 1 electrician who returns tomorrow to finish the home run wiring and final connection to my existing power panel (didn't have the right kind of CB to finish today). I calculated the 240Vac side of the system will produce about 5000kWh per year total power from my SW facing azimuth PV array orientation. Fortunately, there will be virtually no shading although that took careful planning to avoid a late afternoon shadow cast by a neighbor's four, very tall, cypress trees, one house away. I will use an Enphase Envoy/Enlighten monitoring system to keep track of the overall system production including each solar PV module's performance. Total cost = $12,230, or about $3.50/watt (before 30% tax credit). All solar system components in the Powersaver Series 3000 (+ 500W extra capacity) and high quality workmanship in the installation was provided by PetersenDean. :mrgreen:

For information go here: http://powersaverseries.com/

Congratulations! Looks like you are a few weeks ahead of me in your PV journey and I am encouraged by your positive experience. I am in the middle of the city and HOA permitting process this week. The physical install should start in 1-2 weeks and I should have a working 4.5kWh shortly thereafter. For San Diego peeps, I will gladly share who I choose once I've gotten my system completed.

 

[VegeLady]

Just took delivery of my RAV4 EV last week...I'm loving it. We have had SunPower panels on our home for 7 years. I "donate" to PG&E every year so I am expecting my increased usage for the EV will consume that excess. Small house with little usage.It's nice to pass the gas stations and just plug into my 110v at home. Haven't installed a 240V charger yet.

 

[Dsinned]

This Saturday, February 23rd, starting at 10AM PST, Petersen Dean Roofing and Solar Energy Co. is having a 24 hour "Solar-thon". As a special promotion in conjunction with this event, for the first 100 customers who call in, they are knocking off $500 from the purchase of one of their 1.5, 3.0, 4.5 or 6.0kW PowerSaver Series solar systems. This is addition to the 30% tax credit!

Also, I believe the event will be telecast on channel 4, KRON-TV, in the SF Bay Area.

Click on this link for more information: http://powersaverseries.com/solarthon.php

I highly recommend this company if you have been thinking about going solar, and if you do, please be sure to let them know I referred you. Thanks. :mrgreen:

 

[TeCKis300]

She's alive!

The permitting and inspection processes took awhile, but it's finally up and running. Feels great to be powered by the sun and I look out every morning hoping for the sunlight to be streaming in.

 

[Dsinned]

I know exactly what you mean. It IS a great feeling! CONGRATS!!! :mrgreen:

I'm working on an addition to my current system to get more solar production capacity . . . perhaps another 1.5kW-dc, for a total capacity of 5kW (upsizing from 14 to 20 PV panels). My system now makes a little over 3.0kW-ac at its maximum output, which has the potential of, and probably is quite close to, making all the electricity I need even with two BEVs in the household. However, I want a little extra so that several years from now, when the panels have degraded to a reduced output level, I'll still have enough power to zero out my bill. My wife and I are empty nesters living in a four bedroom house, so the next owner, with a large family, should be thanking me now. In any event, I am very pleased with the production I get out of a fairly small system.

Here is a visitor's link to my current system: https://enlighten.enphaseenergy.com/public/systems/TRVh161550

 

[VQ EV]

I've had my Leaf since 1/4/2011 and my Rav4 EV since 3/30/2013. I got my 9.4 kW PV system 12/20/2012 and it had to have 2 inverters to save a $10,000 upgrade to my 100 amp service. I work for SDG&E so I get 25% off my electric bill so I had to wait until PV system costs droped to $2.0/watt (after Federal rebate) to justify one. I use from 2000 to 2500 kWh per month with only a couple days of heating or cooling a year in San Diego. This is from my 15 aquariums totalling >3000 gallons. I'm trying to breed some rare fish that have never been bred before and are very rare in the wild. I also run 5 UPS systems 2 of which have 10 kWh each of AMG batteries and 2 standby generators to prevent loosing any fish. I rode through the day-long blackout in San Diego in Sept. 2011 without any problems. Eventhough my system is cheap it is now putting out 85 kWh/day AC at a peak output of 8.5 kW (about 90% efficiency). I should get quite a bit more output in June.

 

[Dsinned]

VQ EV, my solar system based on Enphase microinverters is outputting much better than expected at about 90% efficiency as well. Since my PG&E NEM Smartmeter was installed, about 3 weeks ago, I have only "consumed" 14kWh even with TWO EVs being home charged in the household! Not too shabby, huh? :mrgreen: