EV+PV - Who Has It?

[waidy]

That's a good point. My employer does offer charging, but this is my wife's car and her employer does not. Perhaps we should sit down the principle at her elementary school to install an EV charger :lol:

Btw, I think you mean kilo-watt-hours for all your annual numbers?

I mean "000 kWh" or "MWh" on my annual numbers; for example, I was 14.5MWh (or 14,500 kWh) positive on my last yearly tune-up, I got a check ~$450 (can't remember the exact dollar) from PG&E.

 

[TeCKis300]

You're absolutely right. Brain cramp on my end

 

[Dsinned]

• 2012 Rav4EV 5.1 miles/kWh

I drive hypermiling.

I'd say "super" hypermiling! Also very impressive! That is about 1.5 miles/kWh better than the best of us. How is that possible?

Don't laugh (although I know you are laughing..): I watch the power meter (left on the dash board) when I drive. I try not to get it to exceed ~33% when I accelerate. Also, I put the gear in N a lot, especially when I am going downhill and on the freeway

I am assuming you meant to say "B", but even still getting over 5mi/kWh driving efficiency in the hilly area of Los Altos, and freeway driving, seems impossible! I employ a lot of the same hypermiling techniques as you do, i.e. using "B" as much as possible, s-l-o-w-l-y accelerating from a stop, lifting off the throttle waaaay earlier at stop signs and signal lights, etc, but can barely "average" 3mi/kWh overall. Sometimes for a one way trip predominately downhill moving at slow speed, I can get a lot higher efficiency for that ONE WAY trip, but for return trip, no way! Thus, overall, for my cummulative driving, I thought I was doing fairly good getting around 3.5mi/kWh after several consecutive days of hypermiling as much as possible.

When you said "5.1" for your 2012 RAV4 EV, did you mean it was at your personal best for peak driving efficiency. This is the reading recorded on the center console energy efficiency monitor as your "BEST", but that is not usually representative of anywhere close to the day to day AVERAGE reading also recorded on the same display screen.

Anyway, if you mostly drive by yourself, without any extra weight in the cargo space, use regenerative braking all the time, and your passenger weight is barely a 100 lbs, that will certainly give you the advantage over most other RAV4 EV's driving efficiency. BRAVO!!! :mrgreen:

 

[waidy]

I am assuming you meant to say "B", but even still getting over 5mi/kWh driving efficiency in the hilly area of Los Altos, and freeway driving, seems impossible! I employ a lot of the same hypermiling techniques as you do, i.e. using "B" as much as possible, s-l-o-w-l-y accelerating from a stop, lifting off the throttle waaaay earlier at stop signs and signal lights, etc, but can barely "average" 3mi/kWh overall. Sometimes for a one way trip predominately downhill moving at slow speed, I can get a lot higher efficiency for that ONE WAY trip, but for return trip, no way! Thus, overall, for my cummulative driving, I thought I was doing fairly good getting around 3.5mi/kWh after several consecutive days of hypermiling as much as possible.

Nop, I really mean "N", The trick is to catch the kinetic energy and "momentum" . I use "B" as well, but only when I know I am approaching a stop sign and stop signal.

When you said "5.1" for your 2012 RAV4 EV, did you mean it was at your personal best for peak driving efficiency. This is the reading recorded on the center console energy efficiency monitor as your "BEST", but that is not usually representative of anywhere close to the day to day AVERAGE reading also recorded on the same display screen.

The best miles/kWh I got for the Rav4EV is 6.2miles/kWh, the worst I got my Rav4EV is 2.7miles/kWh (that's when my son drives it when I am taking the S). Mostly it's ~5miles/kWh.

Anyway, if you mostly drive by yourself, without any extra weight in the cargo space, use regenerative braking all the time, and your passenger weight is barely a 100 lbs, that will certainly give you the advantage over most other RAV4 EV's driving efficiency. BRAVO!!! :mrgreen:

I am under 90 pounds (if I eat well. Some time below 80) and so far I haven't had a need to carry anything in my truck.

 

[TeCKis300]

Nop, I really mean "N", The trick is to catch the kinetic energy and "momentum" . I use "B" as well, but only when I know I am approaching a stop sign and stop signal.

That's an interesting strategy that I've not considered before. Guess it would be the equivalent of sailing when no acceleration or deceleration is desired. There has to be some loss in regen braking, trying to convert momentum to electrons, and then back to propulsion.

 

[waidy]

Nop, I really mean "N", The trick is to catch the kinetic energy and "momentum" . I use "B" as well, but only when I know I am approaching a stop sign and stop signal.

That's an interesting strategy that I've not considered before. Guess it would be the equivalent of sailing when no acceleration or deceleration is desired. There has to be some loss in regen braking, trying to convert momentum to electrons, and then back to propulsion.

This has become my driving habit since the acquisition of my 2002 Rav4EV.

 

[waidy]

This has become my driving habit since the acquisition of my 2002 Rav4EV.

I am in complete lost when I drive the S because there is no "N" or at least I haven't found it. Therefore, if I drive the S enough, my habit of using N might go away

 

[Dsinned]

Waidy, if I may ask, what is the best fully charged range you are getting?

At an "average" driving efficiency of 5.1mi/kWh, the calculated prediction for your maximum range would be 178.5 miles for a standard charge, and a whooping 213 miles on an extended charge!!! Are these anywhere close to the #s indicated on your range gauge?

In all honestly, these #s would be unheard of by comparison with virtually all other current model RAV4 EVs on the road today, many of which are being hypermile driven as much as is practically possible as well.

Please elaborate more on how you are getting such simply astonishing driving efficiency out of your latest RAV4 EV. It is truly incredible!!!

 

[TonyWilliams]

To figure the amount of power you need for the year for 15,000 miles in your Rav4, you first need to determine your average economy and the efficiency rate of the charge.

I would just generically use 3 miles/kWh on the car, since it will clearly get better or worse (unless you are a super driver like Waidy!!).

Then, figure about 85% charger efficiency, and I get 2.55 miles/kWh "from the wall".

15,000 miles divided by 2.55miles/kWh = 5.9MW

My house currently uses about 14MW, and two Rav4's / Tesla Model S/X would double my usage (I drive way more than 15,000 miles/yr).

 

[waidy]

Waidy, if I may ask, what is the best fully charged range you are getting?

At an "average" driving efficiency of 5.1mi/kWh, the calculated prediction for your maximum range would be 178.5 miles for a standard charge, and a whooping 213 miles on an extended charge!!! Are these anywhere close to the #s indicated on your range gauge?

In all honestly, these #s would be unheard of by comparison with virtually all other current model RAV4 EVs on the road today, many of which are being hypermile driven as much as is practically possible as well.

Please elaborate more on how you are getting such simply astonishing driving efficiency out of your latest RAV4 EV. It is truly incredible!!!

I posted the following at BayLEAF group in facebook on Dec 27, 2012:

• Today.. on Panda (nick name for the '12 Rav4EV), 158 miles (95% freeway miles) all in one charge. Start from Los Altos Hills to San Francisco, then to Santa Cruz, end point De Monte Shopping Center, Monterey. Average 65+mph.

It was on an extended charge and there were two bars left (no turtle).

Take advantage of the kinetic energy and avoid using the break if all possible (I mean use your break as little as possible).

 

[waidy]

I would just generically use 3 miles/kWh on the car, since it will clearly get better or worse (unless you are a super driver like Waidy!!).

Waidy has two properties: very old and unemployed. When you are old and unemployed for over 12 years, you will probably drive like Waidy.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I posted the following at BayLEAF group in facebook on Dec 27, 2012:

• Today.. on Panda (nick name for the '12 Rav4EV), 158 miles (95% freeway miles) all in one charge. Start from Los Altos Hills to San Francisco, then to Santa Cruz, end point De Monte Shopping Center, Monterey. Average 65+mph.

I probably missed that Facebook post, since Gary L. had banned me!!! I'm back now (that Gary L. is no longer in charge of that).

Anyhow, you are THE high mile champ!

 

[Dsinned]

Waidy, so "5.1mi/kWh" as you stated previously, is more like your "peak" driving efficiency, not an average! If you drove that far on one extended charge, i.e. 158 miles with two bars left, your average is probably close to 4.0mi/kWH. Therefore, your maximum extended range is probably in the neighborhood of 165+ miles, (41.8kWH * 4.0mi/kWh = 167 miles), which BTW is better than the 160 miles advertised for the Tesla Model S-40. INCREDIBLE!!!

Are you by any chance listed on the Entune's ECO Dashboard iPhone app? If so, I would expect to see you ranked #1 and very likely the all time record holder!!!

 

[waidy]

Waidy, so "5.1mi/kWh" as you stated previously, is more like your "peak" driving efficiency, not an average! If you drove that far on one extended charge, i.e. 158 miles with two bars left, your average is probably close to 4.0mi/kWH. Therefore, your maximum extended range is probably in the neighborhood of 165+ miles, (41.8kWH * 4.0mi/kWh = 167 miles), which BTW is better than the 160 miles advertised for the Tesla Model S-40. INCREDIBLE!!!

Are you by any chance listed on the Entune's ECO Dashboard iPhone app? If so, I would expect to see you ranked #1 and very likely the all time record holder!!!

I brought Panda November 11 for my daughter. I drove Panda while Candace was out on a business trip. The 158 miles drive was on Panda. Candace did not program the name "panda" in EnTune. I brought Dolphin January 4. I program the name Dolphin in EnTune. Dolphin was once ranked 2nd, another time ranked 3rd. He was always on the top of the list.

5.1 miles/kWh was not my peak. My peak was 6.2 miles/kWh. I often see 5.x kWh on my dash when I turned off Dolphin. Dolphin is less than a month old and did not get driven much (because I am unemployed). The longest trip I took on Dolphin is 45.1 miles from my house to Phil's house in Berkeley. This trip was rated 5.1 miles/kWh. I remember I even point out to Phil "See.. I use only 3 bars out of 16 bars from my house to your house; and these 16 bars is from a normal charge"

Couple days ago, my son said "mom, I am putting too much mileage on White Star (S). I need to put some on Dolphin". So he is now taking Dolphin to work. I doubt that you will see Dolphin on the list now because Darren thinks Dolphin has so much power that Dolphin needs to get some work out.

I believe less than a month of data doesn't tell us much. I would like to end this conversation until we get more mileage on the RAVs.

 

[Dsinned]

Okay, we can resume after you have more miles on your cars, but I trust what you are saying is true. It just defies logic because to AVERAGE anywhere near "5.0" miles/kWH in the real world under a variety of driving conditions, is absolutely astonishing! Btw, are you aware that there is a cummulative "average" driving efficiency readout on your center console for "EV Apps" Energy Monitoring function? It can be reset (or cleared), but if you leave it to continuously update itself, that reading should be reasonably well suited to correlate to your maximum fully charged driving range, i.e. plug that number in to the equation, (?.?)mi/kWh x 35kWh (std charge, or use x 41.8kWH for an extended charge), equals estimated Maximum Range.

For example, if your cummulative average is 3.5mi/kWh, (which is actually pretty darn good for most RAV4 EVs), your estimated maximum range after a full charge in standard charging mode, would be ~122.5 miles, i.e. (3.5)mi/kWh x 35kWh = 122.5 miles. Conversely, on an fully extended charge, your maximum range would be ~146 miles, i.e. (3.5)mi/kWh x 41.8kWh = 146.3 miles. Of course, these are merely "estimates", because battery temperature conditions can widely vary from optimum (70F?) and will affect your actual computed driving range up or down.

Nevertheless, I think the cummulative average battery driving efficiency is the best multiplier to use in this range calculation. Because of the generally cold temperatures in the SF Bay Area lately, well below 68F, I would expect to apply a temperature adjustment factor of -10% to the calculated value. So, in reality a cummulative driving efficiency average of "3.5" as indicated on your center console, could be adjusted down by -10%, or 3.15mi/kWH, as the multiplier to produce a more accurate estimate. However, the closer OAT is to 68F, there should be no need to make such an adjustment.

Sorry to be so obsessed by this topic, but I think it is essential to have a means of calculating maximum range to constantly assess how accurate the "GoM" is in our cars. :mrgreen:

 

[Dsinned]

I just had installed today a 3.5kW solar roof system consisting of 14-250W polycrystaline PV panels and Enphase microinverters! The entire installation on my residence's 2nd story roof only took about 6 hours with a work crew of 3 installers + 1 electrician who returns tomorrow to finish the home run wiring and final connection to my existing power panel (didn't have the right kind of CB to finish today). I calculated the 240Vac side of the system will produce about 5000kWh per year total power from my SW facing azimuth PV array orientation. Fortunately, there will be virtually no shading although that took careful planning to avoid a late afternoon shadow cast by a neighbor's four, very tall, cypress trees, one house away. I will use an Enphase Envoy/Enlighten monitoring system to keep track of the overall system production including each solar PV module's performance. Total cost = $12,230, or about $3.50/watt (before 30% tax credit). All solar system components in the Powersaver Series 3000 (+ 500W extra capacity) and high quality workmanship in the installation was provided by PetersenDean. :mrgreen:

For information go here: http://powersaverseries.com/

 

[jspearman]

I just had a 3.5kW solar roof system consisting of 14-250W polycrystaline PV panels and Enphase microinverters installed today!

Congrats! Happy solar motoring!

 

[waidy]

I just had a 3.5kW solar roof system consisting of 14-250W polycrystaline PV panels and Enphase microinverters installed today! The entire installation only took about 6 hours with a work crew of 3 installers + 1 electrician who returns tomorrow to finish the home run wiring and final connection to my existing power panel (didn't have the right kind of CB to finish today). I calculated about 5000kWh per year total 240VAC power generating capacity for my location and SW facing azimuth PV array orientation. Fortunately, there will be virtually no shading although that took careful planning to avoid the late afternoon shadow cast by a neighbor's four, very tall, cypress trees, one house away. I will use an Enphase Envoy/Enlighten monitoring system to keep track of the overall system production and each PV module's performance. Total cost = $12,230, or about $3.50/watt (before 30% tax credit). All solar system components and high quality installation work was provided by PetersenDean via their Powersaver Series. http://powersaverseries.com/

:mrgreen:

Congrats! I hope you get $$$ from your utility on your yearly tune-up. It is wonderful to use energy from the sun. Best of all, you don't have to think what time you should plug in your EV (in another word, you don't need to use the semi-malfunction untrustable timer). I didn't know my Rav4EV timer doesn't work until my son uses the timer at work (because I never use timer).

 

[Dsinned]

The final electrical work was complete this morning and testing successful. My new solar system has been generating power since around noon time today and as of right now has produced 9.36kWh, more than enough to run all my household loads during the afternoon. Actually, I am over producing quite a bit, since my HVAC has been off most of the day. Since intial soloar system turn ON, my PG&E smartmeter indicates I have been putting most of that 9+kWh of power back on to the grid all the while. I'm incredibly STOKED!!! :mrgreen:

 

[jspearman]

The final electrical work was complete this morning and testing successful. My new solar system has been generating power since around noon time today and as of right now has produced 9.36kWh, more than enough to run all my household loads during the afternoon. Actually, I am over producing quite a bit, since my HVAC has been off most of the day. Since intial soloar system turn ON, my PG&E smartmeter indicates I have been putting most of that 9+kWh of power back on to the grid all the while. I'm incredibly STOKED!!! :mrgreen:

It's really gratifying to see the stats and know you are doing a small part to change the way we produce energy. The microinverters are even better (or worse, ha), since you can track each panel.