Errors After Inverter control board replacement and problems with re-flash.

[ogmm]

I bought 3 encoders(revision C from china, the orignal is revision B) but still getting the speed sensor errors. Checked the wiring from the sensor to the inverter conector and it is ok.

The motor rotates normal but in a random time it stop rotating(before was every 15-30min now is 3 to 8 min) and shows the speed sensor issue, if i shutdown the car and put it in drive it works even with the error showing but again stop working in a few minutes. Also uploaded the gateway firmware trying to fix this.

I'll try to check with the osciloscope the encoder signals just to confirm that the old and new encoders are ok.

What do you think what could be? Any insight will be appreciated.

 

[asavage]

It's really best if you start your own thread for your issue, rather than inserting yours into Arlin's. Having conversations about two different cars in one thread becomes confusing.

 

[Arlin]

Hi, Everyone. I promised a fill write up. I am not trying to avoid the forum. IN fact I am super happy I found you guys! I ended up braking my wrist and 2 ribs on June 1st. So I have not been typing as much. But I will see if I can get some time to talk to text and fill in the whole story about the Rav 4 EV I am driving. I will report that my boys and I have been using the Rave 4 for about a month now and its working great. -Arlin

 

[alflash]

I sympathize,
get well soon!
And thanks for the feedback.

 

[fred_dot_u]

Disk brakes or wrist breaks?

 

[asavage]

Having broken my dominant wrist in a motorcycle accident in 2000, I give a lot of leeway for typos for anyone in that situation. I won't say that six weeks will fly by (in summer!) but "this too shall pass".

 

[fred_dot_u]

Having broken my dominant wrist in a motorcycle accident in 2000, I give a lot of leeway for typos for anyone in that situation. I won't say that six weeks will fly by (in summer!) but "this too shall pass".

The better typos are often auto-incorrect entries.

 

[davewill]

Having broken my dominant wrist in a motorcycle accident in 2000, I give a lot of leeway for typos for anyone in that situation. I won't say that six weeks will fly by (in summer!) but "this too shall pass".

Besides, there no faster way to end up making your own embarrassing mistakes than trying to correct others.

 

[Arlin]

Hi Guys I am back. So Far the Rav 4 EV is working good. But the pesky low Battery voltage warning comes on randomly. But I figured out its only when stopped and holding the brakes long enough. It might also be at a certain brake position But this is weird its like the brake is maybe sending out a CAN signal that causes the car to miss a BMS signal? Anyways I have narrowed that down to some extent. I will at some point drive with the laptop hooked up to it and see if I can see anything. Other than that its working well. The motor bearings still make noise even with 4 new bearings in... I just ordered all the stuff to do a DIY chademo kit using ESP32 I am going to learn what I can about the Rav 4 with the chademo kits and see how this will all work together. https://github.com/jamiejones85/ESP32-Chademo?tab=readme-ov-file

 

[alflash]

When the “state status” changes after releasing the brake pedal in the “Ready” mode, some processes may occur quite quickly and a short-term change in some parameters may not be noticed. But if your laptop is on the Internet, then through a program, for example, AmmyyAdmin (https://www.ammyy.com/en/index.html), I can record the program screen. Then I'll edit this video so we can watch it in slow motion. For example, as shown in this video


Note. The RAV4EV drive unit uses seven bearings and a differential*
https://alflash.com.ua/2019/to_rav4ev/bearings_seals.jpg

*

 

[Arlin]

When the “state status” changes after releasing the brake pedal in the “Ready” mode, some processes may occur quite quickly and a short-term change in some parameters may not be noticed. But if your laptop is on the Internet, then through a program, for example, AmmyyAdmin (https://www.ammyy.com/en/index.html), I can record the program screen. Then I'll edit this video so we can watch it in slow motion. For example, as shown in this video


Note. The RAV4EV drive unit uses seven bearings and a differential*
https://alflash.com.ua/2019/to_rav4ev/bearings_seals.jpg

*

Does anyone know where I can buy this graphite brush?

 

[asavage]

The Aegis brush proved to be ineffective over the long term, which is why Tesla moved to hybrid ceramic ball bearings for both ends of the rotor (around 2015-16?). This, of course, only moved the problem into the rotor splines -> gearbox and pinion bearings, but the wear there seems to be much less than via the original steel balls rotor bearings. Or at least quieter?

At one time, I found either the supplier for the Aegis brush used in the LDU, or a supplier who has been contacted to provide a quote for Tesla, but I've long since lost that info.

 

[alflash]

Does anyone know where I can buy this graphite brush?

IMHO. Nowhere

As I assume, after the introduction (?) of the patent US20160156256 - Geometry of rotor* end ring and stator end turns" Tesla (in vain) abandoned these brushes.
But they protected not only the rotor bearing from electrical erosion, but also the bearing of the Input Shaft in the transmission.
And without these brushes, these bearings become the cause of these extraneous sounds (0:35 of the video above).
*https://alflash.com.ua/2019/to_rav4ev/rotors.jpg

I don't have a single factual confirmation that the RAV4EV (QEA38) used conventional bearings - not hybrid ones.

 

[Arlin]

IMHO. Nowhere

As I assume, after the introduction (?) of the patent US20160156256 - Geometry of rotor* end ring and stator end turns" Tesla (in vain) abandoned these brushes.
But they protected not only the rotor bearing from electrical erosion, but also the bearing of the Input Shaft in the transmission.
And without these brushes, these bearings become the cause of these extraneous sounds (0:35 of the video above).
*https://alflash.com.ua/2019/to_rav4ev/rotors.jpg

I don't have a single factual confirmation that the RAV4EV (QEA38) used conventional bearings - not hybrid ones.

Ok So Maybe I can come up with a solution. Being as the coolant tube is welded up I can replace the coolant seal with a grounding brush or device. The shaft Diameter is 30mm and the cover it presses into is 55mm if anyone can find something that will work. Non the less I am working on it. The Rav 4 drives me nuts with its EMP noise.

 

[asavage]

Please review my post of Feb2021.

If you have gone dry rotor and have the end of the rotor available for purposes other than a seal, then rather than installing a conventional brush that contacts on the circumference of a rotor surface, you could use a variation of the old '59 Cadillac solution shown, on the end of the rotor instead. Done right, the FPM would be a lot less, reducing wear (and the attendant graphite/carbon conductive dust issue, from normal brush wear).

 

[alflash]

Ok So Maybe I can come up with a solution. Being as the coolant tube is welded up I can replace the coolant seal with a grounding brush or device. The shaft Diameter is 30mm and the cover it presses into is 55mm if anyone can find something that will work. Non the less I am working on it. The Rav 4 drives me nuts with its EMP noise.

1. Note. Tesla does not use the usual brush design (photo2), but the so-called "distributed" brush (photo1).

The thickness of its thousands of "hairs" is approximately 0.02 ÷ 0.03 mm, the clamping force is negligible and, as a result, wear is much less.

IMHO. I assume that installing a brush is not an eternal "indulgence" from noise. Given the current age of the RAV4EV, the SOH data of its battery will become unacceptable much earlier than the new bearings will start making noise.
Replace the bearings and, at least for another 50,000 miles, this problem will be solved.

2. An example of a brush with stuck "hair" due to oil getting in (photo3).

3. AFAIR, Tesla installed such a brush on the transmission side and mainly to protect the regular primary shaft bearing. Hybrid bearings are much less susceptible to electrical erosion due to the material of their balls.
Right of rotor is also a conventional wheel bearing on its right side in the direction of travel. But it is too far away and "shielded" from the high-frequency harmonics of the 3-phase voltage of the inverter.

4.

...As I assume, after the introduction (?) of the patent US20160156256 - Geometry of rotor* end ring and stator end turns" Tesla (in vain) abandoned these brushes...

For example, photo4.

 

[Arlin]

1. Note. Tesla does not use the usual brush design (photo2), but the so-called "distributed" brush (photo1).


IMHO. I assume that installing a brush is not an eternal "indulgence" from noise. Given the current age of the RAV4EV, the SOH data of its battery will become unacceptable much earlier than the new bearings will start making noise.
Replace the bearings and, at least for another 50,000 miles, this problem will be solved.

I replaced all the bearings other then the 2 diff bearings and they seemed fine. This made noise from day 1.

 

[asavage]

I replaced all the bearings other then the 2 diff bearings and they seemed fine. This made noise from day 1.

The white RAV4 I purchased recently from Richard has notable geartrain noise, different from my blue RAV4 that I've owned since 2017, and Richard -- who owned the white one since new -- says his made that noise since Day 1 as well. It seems some units were always noisier than others?

--
Two years ago, his LDU motor was "rebuilt" by QCC, including a "seal/bearing kit", which probably did not include the pinion bearings, but there's no way for me to know. Since "motor" is listed, I presume they only did a reseal on the gearbox. It's good practice to replace at least both pinion bearings -- in addition to the two rotor bearings -- if you've got it apart, as they run at the same speed as the rotor but with the hybrid rotor bearings they are now the ground path for stray induced rotor currents.



That "motor rebuild" price does reflect the four-line drain kit that they installed as well (though it's also not listed in that receipt).

 

[alflash]

... The motor bearings still make noise even with 4 new bearings in...

vs.

I replaced all the bearings other then the 2 diff bearings and they seemed fine. This made noise from day 1.

vs. all bearings of RAV4EV Motor Asembly (there are 7 of them):
https://alflash.com.ua/2019/to_rav4ev/bearings_seals.jpg
?
Condition of the rotor spline end?
(photo).
Under what driving conditions is the noise heard?
Can we listen to a recording of it?

 

[Arlin]

vs.

vs. all bearings of RSV4EV Motor Asembly (there are 7 of them):
https://alflash.com.ua/2019/to_rav4ev/bearings_seals.jpg
?
Condition of the rotor spline end?
(photo).

The rotor spline end is not in good shape. The shaft and coupler splines are quite worn and there was a lot of dust I cleaned out of there.