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My car is at the dealer now, they said I might need a new battery but waiting for Tesla to communicate. I told the service manager, if they are going to spend 20k to replace the batter, let me have an option to return the car.

Maybe it is time to order the Model X.
 
Dianne said:
It's very easy to determine the firmware - takes about 2-3 minutes for my tech to do it. Even though I am sure every one of my cars HAS the 1.3.62 I confess I still check every car on PDI to make 100% certain of it. Better safe than sorry. It's very unlikely that anything I have coming out of the plant since early August would have the old 57 on it but it takes 3 minutes to make sure so why not.

Dianne

Dianne,
Can you confirm that the car we purchased in Sept already had the Tesla v 1.3.62? Why would the dealership here say the problem with our " check EV System Warning" was rectified by updating the firmware to v1.3.62 if it already had it installed?
 
I had a variation on the check EV system that I haven't seen reported until now. While driving, this came on: High Battery Temp (Battery Cooling Now) and Low Battery Temp (Battery Warming Now) Check EV System. The solution was replacement of the traction battery. See details here:

http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=765
 
I got my car back, and I can't believe they are pulling this sh.t.

Tasks says this was some sort of glitch in the software that caused the EV check light.

The check light error saids HV battery damage to contacters.

Pretty much my car was at the dealer for 6 days and they clear the code and done nothing.

According to the service manager, he was told the car will heal itself, Wtf?

They started to blame my modifications, such as my camera that plugs into the cigarette lighter, my plug n play shifter...etc.

Seems like they are bracing themselve for a lemon. Since this is the 3rd time my EV light came on and my car been at service for more than 25 days.
 
yji3.jpg


Brand spankin' new RAV4EV, with optional Diesel Range Extender. I'll have to ask the driver what the problem was. It certainly wasn't low charge, you can see the bank of (working) Chargepoints to the right.
 
Just got the Check EV message. The SOS operator was no help. Connected me with towing who said they would only tow 14 miles for free. I was reading my Toyota care brochure to them and it said they would tow up to 100 miles. I am around 60 miles from the nearest Rav4 EV dealer. My local dealer says they can work on the car, is that true? Based on reading this thread I am tempted to just drive the car since the Toyota SOS operator said that would not be a problem.
My VIN is 2007 and I was told I have the latest software.
 
Update to my last post. The warning message seems to have gone away and reading through the post, it looks like the dealers just reset the code, so I guess I will just see if it happens again.
 
My Check EV light keeps coming on, and the dealer can't do anything about it since Tesla claims that this is a glitch in the software...hmmm.

Now the pattern is my EV light turns on in the morning right after I unplug, then turns of after 2 days.
 
How does Tesla get away with the high failure rate of their hardware and marginal / glitchy software (Check EV light, interrupted charging) in the RAV4 EV? The right wing / oil industry press would be all over them if this was happening to Tesla-branded cars.

Maybe somebody should leak some info about our issues to the Wall Street Journal or Forbes?
 
^^^
FWIW, if you skim http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/10398-Model-S-Technical-Mechanical-Issues and look for problem report threads at http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/forumdisplay.php/73-Model-S, you won't get very warm and fuzzy feelings about Model S reliability.

To top it off, you have a vocal minority over at TeslaMotorsClub who are against reporting safety defects to NHTSA (example at http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/21238-Main-Battery-and-12V-battery-failure-in-the-middle-of-the-intersection), even if millions of other cars have been recalled for the same type of symptom (e.g. losing power, "stalling") in the past and are still being recalled for that.

Before one says the Internet and forums are full of complainers, I know of 0 Leaf motor replacements for the '11 and '12. I've followed Priuses for over 7 years including the introduction of the Gen 3 Prius (2010 model year) and 1st model years of the Prius c, Prius v wagon and Plug-in Prius (2012 model years). They sell in WAY larger quantities than the Model S and Rav4 EV yet have nowhere near the type and severity of complaints on Priuschat.com within their 1st and 2nd years.

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/21238-Main-Battery-and-12V-battery-failure-in-the-middle-of-the-intersection. 1 guy had his inverter go out causing the car to "lose power" (post 7). The OP needed a new drivetrain (post 17). Person in post 11 needed a tow then in post 47 reported they replaced his 12 volt AND HV battery.

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/19785-Car-delivered-yesterday-died-10-times-today-stranding-my-family/page4?p=403603&viewfull=1#post403603 had inverter fail 2x, causing him to lose power in traffic. OP of http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/19785-Car-delivered-yesterday-died-10-times-today-stranding-my-family had his car die multiple times. Resolution at http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/19785-Car-delivered-yesterday-died-10-times-today-stranding-my-family/page7?p=405102&viewfull=1#post405102 : 2 of 3 coolant pumps failed.

Numerous Model S owners over on TeslaMotorsClub have had their drive units replaced too.

FWIW, I'm not anti-Tesla (FAR from it). They no doubt have a great product in terms of range, performance, technology and charging speed via Superchargers. But all the evidence I've seen points to not-so-good reliability. They don't have the benefit of experience of building from cars from scratch for more than 50 years (and for some OEMs, over 100 years) and building MANY models over many generations.
 
cwerdna said:
^^^
FWIW, if you skim http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/10398-Model-S-Technical-Mechanical-Issues and look for problem report threads at http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/forumdisplay.php/73-Model-S, you won't get very warm and fuzzy feelings about Model S reliability.

To top it off, you have a vocal minority over at TeslaMotorsClub who are against reporting safety defects to NHTSA (example at http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/21238-Main-Battery-and-12V-battery-failure-in-the-middle-of-the-intersection), even if millions of other cars have been recalled for the same type of symptom (e.g. losing power, "stalling") in the past and are still being recalled for that.

Before one says the Internet and forums are full of complainers, I know of 0 Leaf motor replacements for the '11 and '12. I've followed Priuses for over 7 years including the introduction of the Gen 3 Prius (2010 model year) and 1st model years of the Prius c, Prius v wagon and Plug-in Prius (2012 model years). They sell in WAY larger quantities than the Model S and Rav4 EV yet have nowhere near the type and severity of complaints on Priuschat.com within their 1st and 2nd years.

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/21238-Main-Battery-and-12V-battery-failure-in-the-middle-of-the-intersection. 1 guy had his inverter go out causing the car to "lose power" (post 7). The OP needed a new drivetrain (post 17). Person in post 11 needed a tow then in post 47 reported they replaced his 12 volt AND HV battery.

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/19785-Car-delivered-yesterday-died-10-times-today-stranding-my-family/page4?p=403603&viewfull=1#post403603 had inverter fail 2x, causing him to lose power in traffic. OP of http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/19785-Car-delivered-yesterday-died-10-times-today-stranding-my-family had his car die multiple times. Resolution at http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/19785-Car-delivered-yesterday-died-10-times-today-stranding-my-family/page7?p=405102&viewfull=1#post405102 : 2 of 3 coolant pumps failed.

Numerous Model S owners over on TeslaMotorsClub have had their drive units replaced too.

FWIW, I'm not anti-Tesla (FAR from it). They no doubt have a great product in terms of range, performance, technology and charging speed via Superchargers. But all the evidence I've seen points to not-so-good reliability. They don't have the benefit of experience of building from cars from scratch for more than 50 years (and for some OEMs, over 100 years) and building MANY models over many generations.
The Model S has had it's share of problems, but you must be new to the internet or cars in general, if you think that no car manufacturer has problems. Every car made has "something" that is poorly engineered.

High performance cars have a higher drivetrain failure rate than econoboxes. Since the Model S motor puts out about 4X the power of the leaf and prius, I'm not really surprised there has been some replacements. It seems like most of the replacements are for a little bit of noise that the inverter makes. Please show me any 416hp powerplant that is silent if you disagree.
 
qwk said:
High performance cars have a higher drivetrain failure rate than econoboxes. Since the Model S motor puts out about 4X the power of the leaf and prius, I'm not really surprised there has been some replacements. It seems like most of the replacements are for a little bit of noise that the inverter makes. Please show me any 416hp powerplant that is silent if you disagree.

Rav4 EV makes 156 horsepower... and the motors go out. Plus, it's built to allegedly handle the full 416hp.
 
qwk said:
The Model S has had it's share of problems, but you must be new to the internet or cars in general, if you think that no car manufacturer has problems. Every car made has "something" that is poorly engineered.
Nope. Started using web browsers when NCSA Mosiac was still being used and when Netscape Navigator, SLIP and PPP connections were new. Was using both the browsers frequently on X terminals (but eventually could use it on my own Windows machine). Yahoo didn't even have its own .com domain yet (was at akebono.stanford.edu) and Altavista was the search engine. I remember still using some Gopher sites and I think I might've even had to telnet to CD Now. I also sometimes had to use the text-only (!) browser Lynx on Unix machines. Was using Internet email w/machines w/live connection to the Internet (not via BBSes that called others periodically to exchange mail) in 1992. Did software QA of web browsers for a living from 1997 to 2004.

As for new to cars... nope. Started driving ~22 or 23 years ago. Parents have owned cars before I was born. Used some of their cars from them until I was given a hand me down in 97. Replaced it w/the first car I bought w/my own money in late 01 (an 02 Nissan Maxima). I was active on maxima.org back then and later on my350z.com (when I bought an 04 350Z in late 03). Those along w/freshalloy.com were amongst the car forums I was semi-active to active on.

I've had the "pleasure" of experiencing the not very reliable GM cars my parents used to have.

I already stated what I've seen for Priuses since I've been following them since late 05 before buying my own in 06, including the intro of a new generation (Gen 3 aka ZVW30, that began w/model year 2010), 2 brand new cars (Prius c and Prius v wagon) along w/the PiP.

I've also been following the Leaf for awhile so I'm familiar w/its problems, including those of its 1st model year (2011).

I never said that any automakers have no problems. My point is that I've seen what reliable looks like for a very large vehicle population, including those of 1st model years and brand new vehicles. I've also seen what much worse that average reliability (in Consumer Reports) for the 1st model year of the Chevy Cruze looks like by chatter on cruzetalk.com. I've also seen in between (e.g. 03 350Z wasn't so good, esp. its manual transmission and its other problem spots (e.g. infamous front tire feathering) were pretty accurately reflected in Consumer Reports of the time).
qwk said:
High performance cars have a higher drivetrain failure rate than econoboxes. Since the Model S motor puts out about 4X the power of the leaf and prius, I'm not really surprised there has been some replacements. It seems like most of the replacements are for a little bit of noise that the inverter makes. Please show me any 416hp powerplant that is silent if you disagree.
There are plenty of reliable cars that aren't econoboxes and have 200+ hp.

For the 287 hp 04 350Z that I had from late 03 until mid-2011 and put on ~53K miles on in terms of drivetrain related problems: 0 transmission problems, oil seepage developed around a valve cover (fixed under warranty) and I apparently experienced the infamous "axle click" (fixed under warranty as there was a TSB). I guess you could call the gas gauge becoming inaccurate a drivetrain problem even though it's arguably electrical. Eventually, filling the tank never got the needle quite to full. That was it for drivetrain, IIRC.

Many of the problems I've seen on the Model S aren't powertrain related either (e.g. windshield stress cracks supposedly w/o any rock chips, pano roof problems) and some come from unnecessary self-inflicted complexity (external door handle problems, doors opening by themselves, electrical glove box release, etc.)
 
TonyWilliams said:
Rav4 EV makes 156 horsepower... and the motors go out. Plus, it's built to allegedly handle the full 416hp.
To be fair, we don't know how much internal differences there are in the drive unit between the Model S and Rav4. We do know that its very similar, possibly the same minus maybe a lower power inverter. Having said that, I haven't heard of any motor's going out. There have been some that make noise at speed, but that is an entirely different thing, which could very well be improperly set up gears in the one speed gearbox. At least that is what it sounds like to me.
 
cwerdna said:
There are plenty of reliable cars that aren't econoboxes and have 200+ hp.

For the 287 hp 04 350Z that I had from late 03 until mid-2011 and put on ~53K miles on in terms of drivetrain related problems: 0 transmission problems, oil seepage developed around a valve cover (fixed under warranty) and I apparently experienced the infamous "axle click" (fixed under warranty as there was a TSB). I guess you could call the gas gauge becoming inaccurate a drivetrain problem even though it's arguably electrical. Eventually, filling the tank never got the needle quite to full. That was it for drivetrain, IIRC.

Many of the problems I've seen on the Model S aren't powertrain related either (e.g. windshield stress cracks supposedly w/o any rock chips, pano roof problems) and some come from unnecessary self-inflicted complexity (external door handle problems, doors opening by themselves, electrical glove box release, etc.)
A Nissan Z car is not a performance vehicle. It's rather anemic, really. Go to LS1tech.com, Turbomustangs.com ect., and that will give you a better idea of performance vehicles. You have to remember that Tesla's motor is pushing around a 4700lb sled, and propelling it to low 12 second 1/4 mile times. That is worlds different that Nissan propelling a non-turbo 3300 lb. Z car to low 15 second 1/4 mile times.

Windshield cracks are a supplier problem that has been fixed. I definitely agree with you on the door handles being too complex, but the other problems are software issues, and really not a surprise. There is no other car on the planet that is run almost entirely by software, and if any existing automaker did make one, I can assure you it would be a mess. Just look at the My Ford Sync problems. Enuf said.
 
qwk said:
TonyWilliams said:
Rav4 EV makes 156 horsepower... and the motors go out. Plus, it's built to allegedly handle the full 416hp.
To be fair, we don't know how much internal differences there are in the drive unit between the Model S and Rav4. We do know that its very similar, possibly the same minus maybe a lower power inverter. Having said that, I haven't heard of any motor's going out. There have been some that make noise at speed, but that is an entirely different thing, which could very well be improperly set up gears in the one speed gearbox. At least that is what it sounds like to me.
The infamous incident that led to the "Engine/Power Steering turned off in middle of the freeway" thread resulted in the replacement of the whole motor-inverter assembly in addition to the Gateway ECU. That car is still for sale as "new" even today.
 
miimura said:
qwk said:
TonyWilliams said:
Rav4 EV makes 156 horsepower... and the motors go out. Plus, it's built to allegedly handle the full 416hp.
To be fair, we don't know how much internal differences there are in the drive unit between the Model S and Rav4. We do know that its very similar, possibly the same minus maybe a lower power inverter. Having said that, I haven't heard of any motor's going out. There have been some that make noise at speed, but that is an entirely different thing, which could very well be improperly set up gears in the one speed gearbox. At least that is what it sounds like to me.
The infamous incident that led to the "Engine/Power Steering turned off in middle of the freeway" thread resulted in the replacement of the whole motor-inverter assembly in addition to the Gateway ECU. That car is still for sale as "new" even today.
Yes, there have been inverter failures(in which case Tesla replaces the entire drive unit). Electronics have a high infant mortality rate, so this shouldn't be surprising. I guess if the inverter fails, the car will not go anywhere, but this failure is more akin to an ignition part problem on an ICE vehicle, not the engine/motor itself.
 
qwk said:
A Nissan Z car is not a performance vehicle. It's rather anemic, really. Go to LS1tech.com, Turbomustangs.com ect., and that will give you a better idea of performance vehicles. You have to remember that Tesla's motor is pushing around a 4700lb sled, and propelling it to low 12 second 1/4 mile times. That is worlds different that Nissan propelling a non-turbo 3300 lb. Z car to low 15 second 1/4 mile times.
The 04 Z is certainly not an econobox (well, the interior bits were rather cheap but at least somewhat stylish) and isn't that slow compared to other sub-$30K cars of that era. Sure, compared to say Corvettes, Ferraris, Vipers, or non-street legal cars that do sub-10 second 1/4 miles times, etc., it's slow. Z was never intended to be a "muscle car" or be about brute force. IIRC, my Z was 3210 lbs. Best stock 1/4 mile times were in the high 13s or low 14s w/stick.

https://web.archive.org/web/20040320022933/http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0403_three/index9.html listed 13.77 @ 100.94.

BTW, many "high performance cars" are from automakers or are of models that usually don't have a good reliability record anyway.
 
cwerdna said:
qwk said:
A Nissan Z car is not a performance vehicle. It's rather anemic, really. Go to LS1tech.com, Turbomustangs.com ect., and that will give you a better idea of performance vehicles. You have to remember that Tesla's motor is pushing around a 4700lb sled, and propelling it to low 12 second 1/4 mile times. That is worlds different that Nissan propelling a non-turbo 3300 lb. Z car to low 15 second 1/4 mile times.
The 04 Z is certainly not an econobox (well, the interior bits were rather cheap but at least somewhat stylish) and isn't that slow compared to other sub-$30K cars of that era. Sure, compared to say Corvettes, Ferraris, Vipers, or non-street legal cars that do sub-10 second 1/4 miles times, etc., it's slow. Z was never intended to be a "muscle car" or be about brute force. IIRC, my Z was 3210 lbs. Best stock 1/4 mile times were in the high 13s or low 14s w/stick.

https://web.archive.org/web/20040320022933/http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/coupe/112_0403_three/index9.html listed 13.77 @ 100.94.

BTW, many "high performance cars" are from automakers or are of models that usually don't have a good reliability record anyway.
I never said that the Z was an econobox, I just said that it's certainly not a performance vehicle. It's rather gutless stock. Taking a best 1/4 mile time from the interwebs for a particular vehicle is also not going to tell you much. I have spent a lot of my life at drag strips, made thousands of passes down the track, and have actually watched a few of these z cars run(both stock and modified).

BTW, there are tens of thousands of street legal cars in this country that have the power to run sub 10 second 1/4 mile times. It's really not that difficult to build one. Been there done that.
 
I got the Check EV system message yesterday and scheduled to go into the dealer tomorrow in Fremont.
The error did clear itself after a couple of starts but when charging it stops to do so within 5 seconds and disconnects the EVSE. AFter which I get the Check EV system error again on startup.

IF someone has experience above issue and can post their resolution from the dealer, that will be great.

//Vips
 
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