$17,500 off by 1 Dec 2014, Production Ended August 2014

[Dsinned]

There is an old tread here that several of us got into a discussion related to which type of Panasonic battery is most likely being used in our Tesla battery powered cars. The concensus reached was that our battery uses the Panasonic NCR18650A based on an assumption that the number, "4500", is an accurate count of the cells used in the pack. None of us here know that for sure, but it is a pretty good educated guess.

Here is the thread I am referring to: http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=72

 

[Kohler Controller]

There is a tread here that several of us got into a discussion related to the type of Panasonic battery is most likely being used in our cars. The concensus was the NCR18650A assuming that the number, "4500" cells, used in the pack is accurate, but none of us here know that for sure.

Here is the thread I am referring to: http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=72

Thanks for the link. I'm not sure how I missed it before. I agree that the anecdotal evidence looks like the Panasonic NCR18650A 3.6V/3.1Ah cell as the building block assembled in 107 in series and 42 in parallel.

For my testing purposes of that cell, I'm going to assume that they leave 7% headroom at the top, meaning Extended Charge would get to 93% SOC of the entire 50.2kWh pack (or 46.7kWh), and they never go below 10% SOC, meaning when the vehicle stops, there is still 5.02kWh in the pack. I could have those two %'s reversed, or I could split the difference and say 8.5% of capacity reserve (inaccessible) on either end, allowing 41.8kWh usable in between.

 

[Dsinned]

Close enough for the sake of your study of our car's battery degradation. I suspect all of us here will be intently interested in the outcome of your testing. TIA!

 

[TonyWilliams]

Some may argue, but I think an excessive number of recharge cycles can be detrimental to the life of the battery over the long term. I did not see a spec for this in the Panasonic data sheet for the 18650A Li-ion battery cell, but most batteries can only withstand a finite number of charging cycles. Again, this may be more of a myth than fact. Another school of thought is to try to keep the battery around 50% SoC to promote longer life by partially recharging as often as necessary but each time well before depletion.

Common mistake; the battery cycle is not every time you plug it in, but instead a complete charge cycle is from depleted to full.

 

[Spiffster]

Any guesses as to how the Toyota cash promotion will change come April 1st? I would venture to guess the promotion will get even better. Perhaps not, but either way, we are in the process of buying one now.

 

[Dsinned]

Anybody's guess . . . and all the more so on APRIL FOOL's DAY! :mrgreen:

I suspect month to month sales have not improved, and year to date sales have been pathetically bad, so they may renew the existing incentive, or even increase to new purchasers. Leasing may become more attractive too. "If" sales have actually improved (doubtful), maybe they will go the other way and reduce (or eliminate) the incentives. Either way, better be prepared to make your move on a moment's notice and keep your eyes glued to Toyota's website for any related announcements.

I know they won't back date a sales contract, but maybe they will let you "sign" a contract now, to lock in the current incentives, but leave off the date, so that you can post date if the incentives increase as of April 1st. There is supposedly no "cooling off" period in CA, so this is a gray area.

All I can say, any new purchaser of a RAV4 EV is getting one helleva better "deal" than any of us got last year! I almost hope the price does go back up, so I don't have to feel robbed anymore.

 

[Pushpak]

I've been seriously shopping the Rav4 (my preference) and the Leaf (my wife's preference). Given the right number, I'd get one today. While I'm itching to pull the trigger, I suspect prices are headed lower in the near term.

The technology is changing really quickly, so I am looking for a lease rather than an outright purchase. I'm having a difficult time getting Toyota dealers to work with me on a lease. They seem focused on selling. And even at that, interactions are surprisingly lackadaisical.

The best lease I can find - $4200 drive-off, $400 /mo, 36 months and 12k /yr - is weak tea (~50 cents/mile) compared to top-end Leaf leases around half that on a /mile basis. (Note - The least expensive Leaf leases are 24 months. So the comparison is inexact. But I'd be happy to lease the Rav4 for 24 months if it were offered. So for my purposes it's reasonable.)

The huge difference, as best I can figure, is that Nissan additionally discounts their leases by the tax rebate. Toyota doesn't. Perhaps Toyota will wake up and smell the coffee in April.

FWIW, from my online monitoring of inventories, I don't believe Rav4's are moving off dealer lots either. However, I don't know about the accuracy of the data.

 

[Karen]

Yep, getting the late in the month jitters. We decided to see if April or even May brings more incentives or cash back but nothing is holding us back from buying one this weekend. Our local dealer has four now. Two are 2012's both Blizzard and two are 2013's also Blizzard. The interior colors are listed different though - Gray on the 2012s and Ash on the 2013s. Does anyone know if there is anything else different between the 2012 and 2013? From what I can tell the current rebate is good only for the 2012s.

 

[AvLegends]

Yep, getting the late in the month jitters. We decided to see if April or even May brings more incentives or cash back but nothing is holding us back from buying one this weekend. Our local dealer has four now. Two are 2012's both Blizzard and two are 2013's also Blizzard. The interior colors are listed different though - Gray on the 2012s and Ash on the 2013s. Does anyone know if there is anything else different between the 2012 and 2013? From what I can tell the current rebate is good only for the 2012s.

Does the sticker say 2013? Mine says 2012. My dealer, Toyota of Oxnard said that all 2600 would be 2012's. Mine was delivered to the dealership about 6 weeks ago around Feb. 1st.

 

[Karen]

Good question about the sticker. The online site for Simi Valley Honda lists two as 2012 and two as 2013. I may head over tomorrow and take a look.

 

[AvLegends]

Good question about the sticker. The online site for Simi Valley Honda lists two as 2012 and two as 2013. I may head over tomorrow and take a look.

Yes... I saw that too. Went to Toyota of Simi Valley web page after seeing your post and saw the same thing. Two 2012's and 2 2013's... Grey and Ash interior. I think they are the same colors as well... my father-in-law has a 2010 Blizzard Pearl Limited with leather and it is listed as Ash. Beautiful perforated leather seats with power drivers seat. Sunroof as well. Wish those were offered on the EV but prob. trying to cut costs with the loss they take on each vehicle with Tesla drivetrain. I'm seriously considering the Katzkin leather kit as I think the cloth inserts won't stay looking new very long

 

[AvLegends]

Karen, one other thing... Toyota of Simi Valley and Toyota of Oxnard are sister dealerships and i'm sure if you told them that Oxnard sold at the $48,444 price for a Blizzard Pearl that Simi Valley would do the same. They matched Dianne's price from Carson Toyota and gave me the Blizzard Pearl without the $220 up-charge. Even the finance director Tim Laubacher (who I had worked with on two previous purchases and a good guy) is in charge of the finance dept. for both Oxnard and Simi Valley dealerships.

I did ask Tim yesterday as to if I could go back to Toyota and re-do the deal if the incentive increased on Apr. 1st... he said no... that Toyota would have a big mess on there hands if they allowed people to change the terms of a signed contract. Also the incentives could possibly change in the other direction. Can't have it both ways. I said that I had to ask with nothing to lose and everything to gain. I am happy with the deal I got!

Good luck!

 

[Hoosier]

Any guesses as to how the Toyota cash promotion will change come April 1st? I would venture to guess the promotion will get even better. Perhaps not, but either way, we are in the process of buying one now.

April 1st....$15,000 Factory incentive! 0% Financing

 

[AvLegends]

Any guesses as to how the Toyota cash promotion will change come April 1st? I would venture to guess the promotion will get even better. Perhaps not, but either way, we are in the process of buying one now.

April 1st....$15,000 Factory incentive! 0% Financing

Or... $7500 and 1.9%

Do you feel lucky?

Seriously I hope your right I talked to my salesman today and he said it's going to be how many cars are in inventory. He didn't know. He did say that sales have been pretty good with the 10k this past month. One guy bought 2 for his company. We'll see... my guess is they will remain the same.

 

[EVnewbie]

Hi everyone. I'm totally new to EVs and considering buying the RAV4 this week prior to the deal expiration. This forum has been really helpful in understanding all the logistics around charging and the issues with the scheduling. This will be our first EV. We went to Toyota of Santa Monica. After reading this thread, I can't help but think they aren't being super aggressive. They are saying the MSRP is 51090 and offering 49000 plus tax, license and registration. I assumed that I'd get something like 49800 (MSRP) + 845 (dest) - 2500 (dealer disc). I was seeing dealer discounts of almost 39xx on this thread. Am I doing my math right? Should I be calling Carson Toyota?

Sorry for all those that purchased in December. I realize this is rubbing salt in the wounds, but I'd like to apply the money saved for a 40amp charger and install and potential TOU separate meter.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[AvLegends]

Hi everyone. I'm totally new to EVs and considering buying the RAV4 this week prior to the deal expiration. This forum has been really helpful in understanding all the logistics around charging and the issues with the scheduling. This will be our first EV. We went to Toyota of Santa Monica. After reading this thread, I can't help but think they aren't being super aggressive. They are saying the MSRP is 51090 and offering 49000 plus tax, license and registration. I assumed that I'd get something like 49800 (MSRP) + 845 (dest) - 2500 (dealer disc). I was seeing dealer discounts of almost 39xx on this thread. Am I doing my math right? Should I be calling Carson Toyota?

Sorry for all those that purchased in December. I realize this is rubbing salt in the wounds, but I'd like to apply the money saved for a 40amp charger and install and potential TOU separate meter.

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

DCH Toyota of Oxnard... Al Gaines will work with you. And if you do go don't let the finance guy sell you the window etching service for $299. Ask me how I know! :shock: Or the extended warranty! :shock:

 

[Dsinned]

Mike, what's the "inside scoop" on the windshield security ID etching? I was quoted the same price for that and went ahead and got it. I was also offered LoJack, which was considerably more expensive. I got that as well. :shock:

I was very suspicious that these "add ons" were a lot like snake oil, and totally unnecessary. For a long while after my RAV4 EV purchase I wasn't even sure these items were ever even installed by the Dealer. I later verified they were actually installed, especially the etching, but in retrospect, I think they are still not very important for what they cost. :roll:

I was also sold an extended warranty as a Toyota VSA, for nearly two grand, but cancelled it. I found out since then that I could of bought the same thing online from an out of state Toyota dealer for about a third as much.

 

[AvLegends]

Mike, what's the "inside scoop" on the windshield security ID etching? I was quoted the same price for that and went ahead and got it. I was also offered LoJack, which was considerably more expensive. I got that as well. :shock:

I was told the security etching was something that all cars going thru the dealership had and was not an option to decline. The next day or two I was going over all the stuff I signed and came to the security etch contract and on the back side among the fine print was... lo and behold the cancellation policy. There in black and white it said I had 60 days to cancel and get 100% refunded. Also the contract said there was a 3 year term that was not made clear at signing. I think the thing that really pissed me off the most is that I have bought 6 cars from this dealership over the last 16 years and every one had the window security ID etching... I just went with the current and never looked at what I was signing and the fine print... my bad and nobody else to blame but me! You should have a contract that you signed for this as well... look on the back and for the cancellation part. It's a 3 year vehicle theft insurance policy.

I was very suspicious that these "add ons" were a lot like snake oil, and totally unnecessary. For a long while after my RAV4 EV purchase I wasn't even sure these items were ever even installed by the Dealer. I later verified they were actually installed, especially the etching, but in retrospect, I think they are still not very important for what they cost. :roll:

These finance add ons are "cash cows" for the dealerships. The finance guys are professional salespeople and really good at what they do. They are there to sell these expensive add ons! It's their job. Can't fault them at all... just got to say NO!

I was also sold an extended warranty as a Toyota VSA, for nearly two grand, but cancelled it. I found out since then that I could of bought the same thing online from an out of state Toyota dealer for about a third as much.

Yup... me too. I was sold a 7 yr/70,000 mi extended warranty as well for $1100. Was first offered to me for $1600 and after declining again and again I finally agreed to $1100. Found out later that I could get the same VSA for $710. I cancelled the original VSA I purchased and will look at getting it closer to the expiration of the factory warranty.

I want to also say that this does not change the way I feel about DCH Toyota of Oxnard and the salesman who sold me the EV. He is a first class guy that I will go back to without hesitation. The finance director, when made aware of my concerns with the ID etch and VSA charges that I wanted to cancel, immediately revised the contract and removed these items. I feel that they stood tall and corrected any issues that I had.

Bottom line here is "Buyer Beware"... nothing specific with my dealership. They all have "finance guys".

 

[Dsinned]

Mike, I tend to agree with your sentiments about "finance guys" . . . I have encounted many of these guys over the years at various other new car dealerships and they are ALL generally the same . . . the showroom sales people probably make a few hundred dollars off of each sale, but the finance guys must make THOUSANDS from these so-called "add on" products and services of certainly dubious value.

When I bought the security ID etching, the finance guy could not even provide a brochure. I later went online and looked up the etching company, but there was very little information to explain the actual benefits of etching car windows. So, I called the company to verify they even exist. They do, down in Texas I believe as part of a bigger company. Then, I found out my dealership never filed any paperwork with that company on my vehicle. That was about two months after the purchase. Needless to say I complained, then the etching company opened a warranty claim on my behalf. A few weeks later I rec'd a call stating that I was now "registered". This whole thing really smacks of smoke and mirrors. I may never know if my $300 was well spend, but it sure looks like I would of been much better off spending the money on a celebratory family dinner after buying my EV instead of on this type of added vehicle theft insurance. :roll:

 

[Pushpak]

FWIW the "standard" Rav4 EV price up here in the Bay Area right now is $12k off MSRP.

(Updated to specify that I'm talking about EV, not ICE.)