$17,500 off by 1 Dec 2014, Production Ended August 2014

[SeattleRav4]

Those with Teslamotors Forum accounts should cross post these deals over there. The Model X SUV deliveries look like they are pushed out to 2015 and there are probably quite a few people who want an electric SUV now. Especially with gas prices pushing back up.
Leasing a RAV4 now until your Model X comes out would seem a good idea.

 

[Dsinned]

2 weeks ago, I bought my RAV4EV for about 40k which includes the $7000 cash back on financing with TFS. Now it's $8800 (in NorCal), which made me wish I had held off buying this car. Is there any way to re-negotiate the financing with TFS to change to the new terms? Has anyone tried this?

I doubt it, but might be worth a try. At the speed at which this car's price is dropping, pretty soon, you will be able to trade it in for another and still come out ahead financially. Image, trading in a 2012 RAV4 with only a few thousand miles every 3 months, and getting a brand new one at little to no out of pocket expense. The only problem would be the hassle with the CA rebates.

Renegotiating your loan with TFS will probably do you no good, because the APR is already at 0% and that is as good as it gets. It's your dealer that you would have to try to convince to give you some sort of post-sale discount on the price you already paid. That surely will never happen. However, if you try renegotiating your loan to a lower balance due amount, with TFS, please let us know how you make out.

 

[FreshAndClean]

Has anyone verified if the $10k lease cash for the $529 a month/$0 down/36month/12k miles is legit? That is an amazing lease if so!

 

[miimura]

Has anyone verified if the $10k lease cash for the $529 a month/$0 down/36month/12k miles is legit? That is an amazing lease if so!

The TFS promotion ($10,000 in SoCal) is applied as a cap reduction in the lease. So, it is certainly already used to calculate the $529 monthly payment. Tonight I will look at the lease proposal I got in January to confirm.

 

[scooter]

Has anyone verified if the $10k lease cash for the $529 a month/$0 down/36month/12k miles is legit? That is an amazing lease if so!

I called my salesman and he said the 10k is already rolled into the quoted price of 0 down $529/mo.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Has anyone verified if the $10k lease cash for the $529 a month/$0 down/36month/12k miles is legit? That is an amazing lease if so!

I called my salesman and he said the 10k is already rolled into the quoted price of 0 down $529/mo.

You will also get the $2500 California rebate, but will NOT get the $7500 Fed tax credit.

 

[AvLegends]

Well... jumped out of the frying pan and into the fire! Bought a new Blizzard Pearl Rav4 EV last night. My salesman pushed me off the fence with the trade deal he gave me on my Plug in Prius. Still a little remorse with the depreciation beating on the Prius but I am pleased with the deal overall.

Now it's time to really enjoy the EV experience. The Plug in was a very nice car but I was a little misled (by myself) as the Prius being an EV which it is not. It is a hybrid with EV limited capability. I was constantly running out of EV range and having the ice startup! No more! Went out and saw the fully charged range (standard 80%) at 125mi!

Question for you guys... my daily driving amounts to 25-30 miles/day. Is it ok to plug in every night to top off the charge or would it be better for the battery to charge every 3-4 days? Or does it matter either way?

Thanks!

 

[TonyWilliams]

Question for you guys... my daily driving amounts to 25-30 miles/day. Is it ok to plug in every night to top off the charge or would it be better for the battery to charge every 3-4 days? Or does it matter either way?

Thanks!

The single biggest thing that you never have to worry about in your neighborhood is excess heat on the battery. Second would be leaving the battery at 100% charge. The worst, however, is the two combined.

Ideally, you want the battery as cool and close to 50% SOC as possible. Practically, you have to be pretty anal to even try that.

Welcome aboard.

 

[AvLegends]

Thanks Tony!

Looking forward to being part of the crowd!

 

[Kohler Controller]

Question for you guys... my daily driving amounts to 25-30 miles/day. Is it ok to plug in every night to top off the charge or would it be better for the battery to charge every 3-4 days? Or does it matter either way?

If I were you, I'd just charge using Standard charging. This will always keep the batteries from seeing the high voltage that Extended Charge gives the pack.

However, I would charge every night because you never know when you might need the extra distance. At least in the beginning of ownership, lots of test drives with friends showing off sport mode!

Glad you are with us.

 

[AvLegends]

Question for you guys... my daily driving amounts to 25-30 miles/day. Is it ok to plug in every night to top off the charge or would it be better for the battery to charge every 3-4 days? Or does it matter either way?

If I were you, I'd just charge using Standard charging. This will always keep the batteries from seeing the high voltage that Extended Charge gives the pack.

However, I would charge every night because you never know when you might need the extra distance. At least in the beginning of ownership, lots of test drives with friends showing off sport mode!

Glad you are with us.

Good advise. Thanks!

Only have 120v in garage for the time being. After todays 20 or so miles the charge time was around 7 hours. We are looking at installing a solar PV system and will bring 240v to the garage at that time for L2 charging. Have a 30a EVSE at work to charge during the day.

 

[Dsinned]

I charge mine only about once per week and rarely in extended mode. Even at that, I usually perform a recharge well before my GoM reaches bottom. However, if you live in a very cold or warm climate zone, plugging in every night should help to keep your battery at more of an optimum "storage" temperature and help to prolong its longevity. If you live in a moderate climate zone I'm not so sure this is necessary and longer intervals between recharges may actually be better for the battery.

Some may argue, but I think an excessive number of recharge cycles can be detrimental to the life of the battery over the long term. I did not see a spec for this in the Panasonic data sheet for the 18650A Li-ion battery cell, but most batteries can only withstand a finite number of charging cycles. Again, this may be more of a myth than fact. Another school of thought is to try to keep the battery around 50% SoC to promote longer life by partially recharging as often as necessary but each time well before depletion.

With an 8 year - 100,000 mile warranty, it may not really matter how you choose to use, store, climatize, and cycle charge your battery. By the end of the decade, there very well may be a much higher tech replacement battery available for half the price of what we have now in our RAV4 EV, and we will WANT to upgrade for the benefit of much longer RANGE. :mrgreen:

 

[Kohler Controller]

Some may argue, but I think an excessive number of recharge cycles can be detrimental to the life of the battery over the long term.

All batteries have a limited number of cycles in them. The time they are exposed to high voltage (top of charge), the average heat to which they are exposed, and the depth of discharge affects the number of cycles that they can deliver.

I purchased cells that I think are the same as in our RAV4EVs. Not the NCR18650A (3.1Ah) but rather the NCR18650 (2.9Ah) and NCR18650PD (2.9Ah but with higher current capability). We have a battery cycler at work which I'll put each cell on a channel cycling at currents which mimic that of a typical driving cycle. I'll put the cells in a thermal chamber at a constant 30 degree C temperature. One (of each) will be charged fully to 4.2V to mimic extended charge, while the other will be charged to 4.1V to mimic standard charge. Every 50 cycles or so, I'll perform reference performance tests to gauge how they are doing, such as Capacity, Rate Capability, and impedance growth. I'll stop the tests when the cells only offer 50% of their new capacity, which would be equivalent to the vehicle only being able to offer 60 miles (for extended charge) and 45 miles (for standard charge).

I may order some additional cells to determine what affect depth of discharge has on these particular cells as well, where I'll perform the same tests as above but limit them to 50% depth of discharge instead of 100% DOD, as most of us never discharge fully anyway.

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
I wonder if those cells are really the same given the verbiage at http://www.teslamotors.com/about/press/releases/panasonic-enters-supply-agreement-tesla-motors-supply-automotivegrade-battery-c.

This agreement builds upon a multi-year collaboration between Panasonic and Tesla to develop next-generation automotive-grade battery cells and accelerate the market expansion of electric vehicles. In 2009, Panasonic and Tesla initially entered into a supply agreement. In 2010, Panasonic invested $30 million in Tesla to deepen the partnership and foster the growth of the electric vehicle industry.

Panasonic supplies cells with the highest energy density and industry-leading performance using its nickel-type cathode technology. Panasonic and Tesla together have developed a next-generation battery cell based on this nickel chemistry and optimized specifically for electric vehicle quality and life. These new cells will combine with Tesla’s proven EV battery expertise gained from more than 15 million customer miles driven in Tesla Roadsters and thousands of hours of cell and battery testing to create the most capable electric vehicle ever produced, Model S....

 

[Kohler Controller]

^^^
I wonder if those cells are really the same given the verbiage at http://www.teslamotors.com/about/press/releases/panasonic-enters-supply-agreement-tesla-motors-supply-automotivegrade-battery-c.

The ones I purchased are from Panasonic. My assumption is based on the pack having 4500 cells. The 2.9Ah cell offers ~10.4Wh per cell, so 4500 of them offers 46.98kWh. Usable capacity would be somewhat less (keep 10-12% unavailable) so that gives us 41.8kWh. The 2.9Ah cells have been around a while longer than the Panasonic 18650A (3.1Ah) versions so are probably cheaper.

If anyone has a better estimation of which particular cell is the basic building block in our packs, please let me know. I'd be glad to test them.

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
You've got the right form factor and manufacturer but it's unclear whether they're available to anyone other than Tesla, esp. if they're supposedly special cells they jointly developed.

 

[ravisekhar]

I purchased rav4 a week back, have following questions

1) who will apply for ca rebate ? Dealer or me
2) do we need pg&e approval to install level 2 charger ?

 

[cwerdna]

I purchased rav4 a week back, have following questions

1) who will apply for ca rebate ? Dealer or me
2) do we need pg&e approval to install level 2 charger ?

1. I think you have to apply. See http://energycenter.org/index.php/incentive-programs/clean-vehicle-rebate-project/frequently-asked-questions-cvrp.

2. Doubt it, but you might need to get a permit from your city. BTW, you're looking to install an EVSE, NOT a charger. The charger's inside the car.

We don't what city you're in but see http://priuschat.com/threads/leviton-wants-1800-to-put-in-evse.104313/ and http://priuschat.com/threads/leviton-wants-1800-to-put-in-evse.104313/page-2#post-1485430, for an example.

I've personally met devprius. I sold him a Nissan-branded Aerovironment L2 EVSE that I won in a drawing. He had his electrician friend install it for him along w/other electrical work he needed at his house.

 

[miimura]

I purchased rav4 a week back, have following questions

1) who will apply for ca rebate ? Dealer or me
2) do we need pg&e approval to install level 2 charger ?

You have to apply for the CA rebate.

Most people will save money on PG&E E-9 rate as long as you don't have high peak use from things like pool pumps or air conditioning. Applying for that rate will let PG&E know that you have an EV, and which one. PG&E wants to know whenever a customer installs a significant new load - but there is no formal approval process that I know of. In most situations, you should get a permit to install an EVSE. In the permit process, your city/county should also notify PG&E.

When I discussed my new home construction project with the PG&E project engineer, he asked what kind of EV I was considering. He was well informed about the different models, how big their batteries were, and how much power and time it would take to charge them. I was pleasantly surprised by that. Since I wasn't going to install an EVSE immediately, I just put a NEMA 14-50 socket on each side wall of the garage. Specifying that was the easiest and cheapest way to get the builder and electrician to put the right kind of wire and breaker.

 

[Kohler Controller]

^^^
You've got the right form factor and manufacturer but it's unclear whether they're available to anyone other than Tesla, esp. if they're supposedly special cells they jointly developed.

I'm not sure they have done anything particularly "special" to the cells for Tesla, other than taking the feedback from what Tesla learned on the Roadster packs and tuned the cells for a vehicle type of load profile and temp range. I have some NCR18650A cells that I will test in parallel with the others, just in case Tesla engineers were being cautious and offering a cell whose capacity would give them head room on either end of the State of Charge. For example, with the 3.1Ah cells, they could allow the operation of the cell to work through ~83% of it's capacity, from 93% SOC to 10% SOC. Limiting the range of discharge while keeping the cell away from the two voltage extremes at top of charge and end of discharge, gives the cell the best chance for cycle life. PHEV/EREV packs are set up this way as well. You often need a little buffer at the top so that the pack can still accept regen from driving right off of a full charge.

If so, this cell should last longer than the 2.9Ah cells because it is being stressed less. Using a 2.9Ah cell only gives ~5-6% buffer room at top and bottom of SOC, using 90% of it's capacity.