They want to kill the EV with Hydrogen cars

[snoltor]

Not a surprise. The industry really is going to try to kill the EV. This carbon, I mean hydrogen, fuel cell car will come with unlimited hydrogen fuel.

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/11/20/2015-hyundai-tuscon-fuel-cell-la-2013/

 

[jspearman]

But free fueling, they say! The only catch is that there are only 10 stations in the entire country right now, so good luck.

 

[Tadol]

Its good to develop multiple technologies - gas is an outstanding fuel source, but our problem is that its pretty much our only one. Electricity has a number of disadvantages, the primary one being that it has an established infrastructure and therefore offers fewer opportunities for exclusivity and exploitation. Hydrogen distribution will require the development of a massive new infrastructure, which gives alot of opportunities to establish economic dominance.

What will be interesting will be the first time someone drives one into a wall and it catches on fire -

 

[miimura]

There have already been non-injury leak accidents at hydrogen stations.
http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2012/05/04/hydrogen-leak-in-emeryville-prompts-evacuations/

Follow-up article explaining why it failed.
http://www.mercurynews.com/breaking-news/ci_21149277/wrong-valve-cause-fire-at-ac-transit-hydrogen

 

[cossie1600]

I don't know why some of you are such hypocrite. The EV had tons of naysayers when it was first announced and put on the road. Just let them be.

 

[cwerdna]

Virtually all the traditional major automakers, including Nissan (w/arguably one of the most serious EV programs outside of Tesla) has been dabbling w/FCVs for ages.

 

[AvLegends]

But free fueling, they say! The only catch is that there are only 10 stations in the entire country right now, so good luck.

http://www.autoblog.com/2013/11/20/2015-hyundai-tuscon-fuel-cell-la-2013/

From the above mentioned press release... might see hydrogen filling stations at your local sewer plant in the future? Unlimited supply...

 

[snoltor]

Yup. I drive by the California Fuel Cell Partnership headquarters in West Sacramento everyday on my way to and from work. The headquarters is decked out with logos from the major automakers.

Virtually all the traditional major automakers, including Nissan (w/arguably one of the most serious EV programs outside of Tesla) has been dabbling w/FCVs for ages.

 

[snoltor]

Hi Cossie,

I understand your sentiment of letting them be and allowing technologies time to mature. But there's a long history here of the automakers promising a bright new future with hydrogen fuel cells, and throwing resources into that project at the expense of improving electric vehicles. Don't forget that just over 10 years ago the US government sued the state of California to stop the EV mandate while at the same time funding FCEV research. So it's not like things have been evenhanded. As we're all aware, Toyota is literally pulling the plug on EVs and moving on to the FCEVs. My read is that significant challenges remain for hydrogen, cost and source of hydrogen coming to mind (although if the hydrogen could really come from waste that would be great). EVs have multiple advantages in terms of energy efficiency and charging infrastructure. What we need though to get the average car driver on board with BEVs is a 250 - 300 mile range that costs less than a Tesla Model S - 85, and that is something that I believe (or hope) would come with research. I don't think we're hypocrites here... at least I can speak for myself in that I love my EV and would hate to see this project fail. Tesla may be the one force that is keeping the automakers on their toes.....

Steve

I don't know why some of you are such hypocrite. The EV had tons of naysayers when it was first announced and put on the road. Just let them be.

 

[jspearman]

Hypocrite? Hardly, just being realistic as I remember the hydrogen promises of the past 15 years. 10 stations and 24 Honda FCX Clarity's do not a revolution make. Are there enough folks willing to pay $499 to lease 1000 FC Hyundais? The cost of a FC car would still be $50-100k because of the platinum, so ownership of one of these cars is still far down the road.

I'll believe those new hydrogen stations exist when I see them in operation, but I'm guessing this will fizzle out like hydrogen always seems to do. Here are a couple of articles, one from this week and one from 2008. Note the similarities in their promises. Almost all the old articles talk about the many new stations that are opening in the next year, but only 2 materialized since the 2008 article was written.

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/gms-fuel-cell-vehicle-development-plan-car-news

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20131121/AUTO0104/311210081/1121/AUTO/3-Asian-carmakers-to-sell-fuel-cell-cars-in-U.S.-by--15

Electric cars are now here in the numbers fuel cell advocates promised in 2008, and the choices are multiplying rapidly. I want to see all of the government money directed to better, more environmentally sound batteries, not to the hydrogen pipe dream.

 

[comet48]

We count the number of Tesla's when driving the kids to school each morning - 2.5 miles, Los Altos. It averages about 5.

 

[TonyWilliams]

http://www.greencarreports.com/news...ompetitive-with-electrics-by-2030-toyota-says

Soichiro Okudaira, chief officer of Toyota's R&D group, told Automotive News Europe that lower production costs will make fuel-cell vehicles competitive with electric cars by 2030


Where do you think Tesla will be with electric powered cars in 2030?

Toyota has $145B cash and cash equivalents on hand.

 

[snoltor]

Steven Chu is on KQED now (Dec 18 10AM) talking about battery electrics, fuel cells etc.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Steven Chu is on KQED now (Dec 18 10AM) talking about battery electrics, fuel cells etc.

http://www.kqed.org/a/forum/R201312181000

 

[snoltor]

Thanks for posting the link!

http://www.kqed.org/a/forum/R201312181000

 

[fooljoe]

From the above mentioned press release... might see hydrogen filling stations at your local sewer plant in the future? Unlimited supply...

Hydrogen from sewage is nothing more than hydrogen from methane, which is very much a known quantity (it's the way most hydrogen is now produced.) But given a certain amount of methane, you'd do much better burning it in a powerplant to generate electricity for an EV, or even just burning it directly in a CNG car.

Also, if methane from sewage were economically viable, then we'd be doing it on a large scale already. The problem is methane from the ground (i.e. NG) is much cheaper.

 

[EVBill]

I was out doing Christmas shopping Saturday and spotted a Toyota fuel cell vehicle, photo below.

A few months ago the GM advanced technology group in Torrance had a bunch of their fuel cell vehicles, which they had been using for a while, gathered in the parking lot. They disappeared a few days later and it looks like they are now testing a newer model.