RECALL: going into neutral / Speed Sensor failure

[miimura]

I just brought my 2 rav4ev's in for the software update.
They couldn't do it immediately because they need to charge my 12 volt (aux) battery first to full.
Even though I drive it enough (imo) to keep it charged, it wasn't enough to do software update.

So if you are planning to take it in, and you happen to have a 12 volt battery charger handy, charge it to full before you take it in, could save you some time.

If you read the TSBs, there is a procedure to connect it to a certain kind of charger (Toyota part number called out) that will support the 12V while flashing the car. Whoever is working on your car is either not properly trained or not properly equipped.

 

[fromport]

They couldn't do it immediately because they need to charge my 12 volt (aux) battery first to full.
Even though I drive it enough (imo) to keep it charged, it wasn't enough to do software update.

Hmmm... maybe your 12V battery is on its last legs or else there is a problem with its charging system.

Wow , you are spot on.
They replaced the 12V battery under warranty!

 

[ghever]

So for someone who drives 30,000 miles per year, I should be expecting more issues soon? After two traction motor replacements? I think one of the visits I saw they replaced a battery I have to see what they did again.. 4 visits to dealership in past month including two tow jobs. I have no confidence this car makes it through the 3 year lease with the amount of driving I do.

 

[fromport]

So for someone who drives 30,000 miles per year, I should be expecting more issues soon? After two traction motor replacements? I think one of the visits I saw they replaced a battery I have to see what they did again.. 4 visits to dealership in past month including two tow jobs. I have no confidence this car makes it through the 3 year lease with the amount of driving I do.

You have to admit though,
if it works like intended, it's great to drive.
But man , I leased 2 with the intention of keeping them both afterwards.
Even with extended warranty, I don't want to "fight" every time to get something done from Toyota.
I am really thinking about returning them after the lease is up, and one probably earlier than that with lemon law procedure.

You will be one of the person with the most miles on it after 3 years.
If I were you, 2 more tow jobs in the next 6 months, I would reconsider returning the car with lemon law.
Toyota is considered one of the most reliable brands, this toyota-tesla merger certainly isn't.

I have a hate-love relation ship with this product.
Bang for the buck (especially with the Jesla add-on) you can't find a better EV in my opinion.

 

[ghever]

So for someone who drives 30,000 miles per year, I should be expecting more issues soon? After two traction motor replacements? I think one of the visits I saw they replaced a battery I have to see what they did again.. 4 visits to dealership in past month including two tow jobs. I have no confidence this car makes it through the 3 year lease with the amount of driving I do.

You have to admit though,
if it works like intended, it's great to drive.
But man , I leased 2 with the intention of keeping them both afterwards.
Even with extended warranty, I don't want to "fight" every time to get something done from Toyota.
I am really thinking about returning them after the lease is up, and one probably earlier than that with lemon law procedure.

You will be one of the person with the most miles on it after 3 years.
If I were you, 2 more tow jobs in the next 6 months, I would reconsider returning the car with lemon law.
Toyota is considered one of the most reliable brands, this toyota-tesla merger certainly isn't.

I have a hate-love relation ship with this product.
Bang for the buck (especially with the Jesla add-on) you can't find a better EV in my opinion.

The concept is great and when the product works, I cannot ask for anything better. But I also cannot afford an unreliable car with the kind of driving I do and the job I do. I am not going to wait for two more tow jobs, next tow job is it. I'll still get a Toyota only a Prius... Looks like electric car is still not a finished product. We shall see, maybe I'll get lucky..

 

[fromport]

The concept is great and when the product works, I cannot ask for anything better. But I also cannot afford an unreliable car with the kind of driving I do and the job I do. I am not going to wait for two more tow jobs, next tow job is it. I'll still get a Toyota only a Prius... Looks like electric car is still not a finished product. We shall see, maybe I'll get lucky..

_this_ particular EV is not a finished product.
Just quickly put together by Toyota to avoid paying extra taxes on the rest of their ICE models.
I doubt you will have these kind of events with a tesla.
In the beginning they had problems with the 12V battery also, like I had today (25k miles).
But the owner actually would get an email stating someone would drop by to replace the 12V battery.
I think with 30k miles per year, even though it looks expensive, I think you would be cheaper off with a tesla than with a prius!

 

[ghever]

A used model S or new model 3? Definitely not with a brand new tesla costing $70000.

I have done the calculations. At current gas prices I am looking at around $115 per month in gas. I can probably buy a used Prius for around 10-12K...drive for three years and sell for around $5000...I don't think a tesla will come in less than that... If be destroying a tesla to the point I'm not sure depreciation wise it makes sense.

 

[4EVEREV]

The majority of the issues with the RAV are Tesla made components with few exceptions. Toyota does not make the charger, gateway, inverter, motor, etc. These are Tesla design failures. EV drive systems are supposed to be ultra reliable yet Tesla seems to have the record in the industry for the highest failure rate in history on volume EV drive systems.

 

[ghever]

So the tesla cars have this many issues as well? Even if so, it seems like they repair the issues faster. Do Leaf's have all these issues? Any of the other evs? Just seems like the hybrids like Prius are better tested and more reliable at this point. Maybe in 5-10 years the EV will reach this same level of reliability but this experience has soured me on getting another ev.

 

[TonyWilliams]

The LEAF is very reliable. Well,except for the most expensive part, the battery, which will degrade faster than any other EV.

 

[ghever]

The LEAF is very reliable. Well,except for the most expensive part, the battery, which will degrade faster than any other EV.

Yah that's why I went with the RAV4...but it's not been nice to me either.... Maybe the latest repair will be the last, keep fingers crossed.

 

[smkettner]

The LEAF is very reliable. Well,except for the most expensive part, the battery, which will degrade faster than any other EV.

Is that true of the 2015 battery? Certainly the 2011 and 2012 battery was a joke.

 

[TonyWilliams]

The LEAF is very reliable. Well,except for the most expensive part, the battery, which will degrade faster than any other EV.

Is that true of the 2015 battery? Certainly the 2011 and 2012 battery was a joke.

I guess we don't really know yet!!!

 

[cwerdna]

The LEAF is very reliable. Well,except for the most expensive part, the battery, which will degrade faster than any other EV.

I wouldn't call the degradation a "reliability" issue. It doesn't fail nor stop working.

But, it (at least on 2011-2012 Leafs, jury's still out on others, esp. '15) does degrade quickly and far more quickly than Nissan led us all to believe.

Probably about the only folks who will have degradation in line on pre-'15 Leafs w/what we were led to believe are those in mild climates (e.g. Western WA like Seattle; city of San Francisco, Half Moon Bay, Daly City or Pacifica; Oregon).

 

[cwerdna]

So the tesla cars have this many issues as well? Even if so, it seems like they repair the issues faster.

They have plenty.

Sorry for the focus on drive units, but this is all I have handy right now (and have time to post right now). Although many of their drive unit replacements tend to be for noise, rather than for failure. It seems a # of Model S have needed replacement battery packs due to something failing inside the pack (contactor?).

Most of these links I sent to a friend of mine on Facebook who felt his Camry was "unreliable" because he had a few intermittent no-start problems. I've collected MANY more, over time, as I happen to see them.

http://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-s/2013/long-term-road-test/wrap-up.html look under Maintenance & Repairs

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/21238-Main-Battery-and-12V-battery-failure-in-the-middle-of-the-intersection/page2?p=437259&viewfull=1#post437259
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/22322-12v-battery-problem-and-stranded!/page3?p=462056&viewfull=1#post462056

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/40725-First-P85D-with-major-malfunction-failure-221-miles-story-repair
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/50363-P85D-Front-Motor-Died

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/29834-Drive-Unit-Replacement-Poll/page40?p=1107634&viewfull=1#post1107634
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/29834-Drive-Unit-Replacement-Poll/page39?p=1107001&viewfull=1#post1107001
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/29834-Drive-Unit-Replacement-Poll/page44
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/38546-Drive-unit-new-or-refurbishishid/page4?p=1072842&viewfull=1#post1072842

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/36414-Model-S-Not-Ready-For-Commercial-Use-Prime-Time-Can-I-afford-to-own-this-car haven't seen an update from this guy for awhile

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/51595-Drive-unit-replacement-getting-better/page2?p=1114564#post1114564 - 5 replacements at 53K mile mark, most recent one done in May 2015. Previous replacements listed at http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/46047-Drive-Unit-failure-symptoms-and-thresholds-for-replacement/page6?p=982006&viewfull=1#post982006.
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/34141-Drive-unit-problems-explanation-by-Elon/page15?p=1116866&viewfull=1#post1116866
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/42854-P85D-rear-oil-leak-WHAT

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/38546-Drive-unit-new-or-refurbishishid/page5?p=1077760&viewfull=1#post1077760
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/38546-Drive-unit-new-or-refurbishishid/page5?p=1074449&viewfull=1#post1074449
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/38546-Drive-unit-new-or-refurbishishid/page4?p=1072941#post1072941
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/29111-EU-Market-Situation-and-Outlook/page121?p=1031626#post1031626
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/49947-961-bucks-to-replace-bushings-on-rear-suspension-upper-control-links/page4?p=1070149&viewfull=1#post1070149
http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/29834-Drive-Unit-Replacement-Poll/page28?p=1046037&viewfull=1#post1046037

They do seem to repair them very quickly though.

One has to wonder what kind of durability testing Tesla does vs. that of major established OEMs. See these:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=12&t=17305
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=377048#p377048
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=377228#p377228

Do Leaf's have all these issues?

No.

Just seems like the hybrids like Prius are better tested and more reliable at this point. Maybe in 5-10 years the EV will reach this same level of reliability but this experience has soured me on getting another ev.

Yep, Prius is a very reliable vehicle, at least Gen 2 and beyond (04 to current).

Despite a FAR larger population of Priuses in the wild and being added daily, major reliability problems on Priuschat of Priuses of the equivalent age of Rav4 EVs here are almost unheard of. (Rav4 EV was capped at ~2600 units total. Prius family sells several times that in a single month in the US. Example: http://www.hybridcars.com/september-2015-dashboard/.)

 

[shikataganai]

Operation "RAV4 EV recall work" is a failure.

While I did manage to get the regional rep to come in to work on the vehicle (at Stevinson Toyota East in Aurora, CO) the recall was not performed. The car was kicking off the following error codes, which gave the rep the willies (since he doesn't want to brick the car!):

P312F <-- probably Tesla related
C1241 <-- related to 12V battery, likely not Tesla's fault
C1551 <-- possibly C1251 instead, written down wrong by dude, and apparently not Tesla's fault as well

From what I have read the P312F issue is probably what is being addressed by the recall. Oh well. :lol: It'll get done eventually.

 

[4EVEREV]

I have never had a single firmware upgrade to my car and I'm reluctant to do so. 1 year left on my lease with no issues so far I do have one of the five special edition models which has the slightly more powerful motor and sport rims so perhaps that made a difference.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I do have one of the five special edition models which has the slightly more powerful motor and sport rims so perhaps that made a difference.

Huh?

 

[4EVEREV]

I do have one of the five special edition models which has the slightly more powerful motor and sport rims so perhaps that made a difference.

Huh?

LOL

 

[Blastphemy]

I do have one of the five special edition models which has the slightly more powerful motor and sport rims...

If you weren't a Site Moderator, I'd vehemently opine that you're completely making this up. Care to elaborate?