RECALL: going into neutral / Speed Sensor failure

[4EVEREV]

I got the Toyota Rav4 EV recall notice on May 5, 2015. On May 7, 2015, I called the dealer for service to replace the electric vehicle traction motor assembly. The service representative said "This is F-12, right, and it is still in process. Are you having any problems? Do you hear any noises from the motor? You may hear noises from the engine first..." We discussed that the defective components were made by Tesla not Toyota. I told the rep that there are no advance warnings prior to the existence of the condition. (This is stated in the Safety Recall F01(F11) 2012-2014 Model year Toyota Rav4 EV Customer Frequently Asked Questions flyer published mid March 2014.) Re: EV Traction Motor Assembly The service rep said they can not fix the EV yet. He agreed to call me when a fix is available.

The recall letter I received states that these problems were documented by Toyota in 2014 and 2015. In our rav4ev forum these problems were reported before that. This is an example that shows the importance of formal and fully documented complaints. Toyota is not admitting that these problems occurred before 2014.

Has anyone complained to NHTSA that Toyota is taking too long to repair/replace the potentially fatal defects in the electric vehicle traction motor assembly? Do we need to complain to NHTSA about Tesla (since they made the ECU, the software and the hardware involved.)?

The letter was clear that is was a notice and that the procedure and resolution would follow so there is no point in calling the dealer unless you have the failure issue. A recall like this is a big process, Toyota is going to address the issue so it's moot about complaining about speed or details. Once the formal notice is out you take your car to be fixed, end of story. I have a couple of these letters I got on the same day for more than one Toyota vehicle. Its' pretty standard.

 

[DevinL]

I'm just going to take the opportunity to complain because I feel like it isn't moot for me. I am moving to Canada in August. Per Transport Canada and the Registrar of Imported Vehicles the car must have any pending recalls completed. The fact that Toyota opened the recall and hasn't provided a solution means I can't import my car until the fix is applied. Toyota's timeline or lack thereof is very unhelpful to me.

 

[cwerdna]

The recall letter I received states that these problems were documented by Toyota in 2014 and 2015. In our rav4ev forum these problems were reported before that. This is an example that shows the importance of formal and fully documented complaints. Toyota is not admitting that these problems occurred before 2014.

Indeed. It would be a good idea to report incidents of legitimate safety defects that one has encoutered, such as this (but not limited to this) to both NHTSA and the automaker. However, I figure that taking it to the automaker's dealer for warranty work should count enough as a "report".

http://priuschat.com/threads/prius-brake-recall-%C3%A2%E2%82%AC%E2%80%9C-a-little-more-information.76158/page-2#post-1061546 mentions official channels. I've met Doug before and he was the Prius Product Manager at the time of that post.

Has anyone complained to NHTSA that Toyota is taking too long to repair/replace the potentially fatal defects in the electric vehicle traction motor assembly? Do we need to complain to NHTSA about Tesla (since they made the ECU, the software and the hardware involved.)?

You could try, esp. w/Tesla.

Side note: If you direct people at teslamotorsclub.com to report legitimate safety defects to NHTSA, including and esp. involving loss of motive power/propulsion not due to user error, a bunch of fanboys will jump all over you arguing that it's NOT a safety defect AND that one shouldn't report them NHTSA (partly because of the 1st point). And, even if it were, one shouldn't report them to NHTSA because doing so is "running to mommy government" :roll: or they have some misguided notion that it's a good idea to "protect" Tesla, in this way. Nevermind that probably hundreds of millions of vehicles cumulatively have been recalled for loss of power/stalling, including EVs and that the owner's manual says to report them to Tesla and NHTSA.

The above bizarro behavior I've never seen on any other car forum I've been on.

Numerous Model drivers S have lost propulsion not due to user error for a variety of reasons (e.g. drive unit failure, contactor failure inside the battery pack, etc.) but I suspect that such incidents are severely under-reported to NHTSA, partly due to the above attitude. If Tesla ever does issue a recall for loss of propulsion, I suspect the NHTSA reports will suddenly spike (just like they did in the graph at http://www.caranddriver.com/features/its-all-your-fault-the-dot-renders-its-verdict-on-toyotas-unintended-acceleration-scare-feature during the Toyota SUA PR disaster).

 

[Tadol]

My wifes Rav had a failure while she was on the freeway, and was able to steer it off at a left hand exit and after a couple restarts, she was able to drive it home (even though the dash indicated that it needed to be serviced immediately). She took it into Toyota Berkeley the next day, and after about 6 days, she got it back with a new motor installed. We hope thats the end of that story -

I took mine into Toyota Walnut Creek for its routine service, and asked them to check the very loud motor noise (especially above 50mph) and they had their specialist record it and send it to Toyota, who determined I needed a new motor, so completed their service and said they would let me know when the motor would come in. Its now been almost 2 weeks, and they still have no idea when the motor will come in. Its running fine - a little loud - but really looking forward to getting my nice, quiet Rav back - someday -

 

[burningmay]

I just saw one this morning but did not have enough time to open and see what its about. Will check when I am back home.

Did anyone get a recall notice in the mail?

 

[davewill]

Yeah, pretty much everyone:

http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=1558

 

[shikataganai]

My recall letter has just arrived here in New Jersey.

I also got my recall letter out of state, in Colorado.

 

[unHookt]

I just had thus happen to mine - fortunately not on the freeway, because I had my wife and two children in the car. Needless to say, the abrupt loss of power is incredibly dangerous. my wife called Roseville Toyota, and they were very unhelpful, implying that we were SOL until the fix is released later this summer. This is a leased vehicle, and there's no way I'm paying for a car that will be inoperable for several months. If possible, I'm going to bring it into the dealer to see if I can get a loaner.

FWIW, my Nissan Leaf had ZERO issues for the three years I kept it, with terrific service and responsiveness from the dealer. The Toyota experience has been the exact opposite from day one.

Will post updates...

 

[smkettner]

I just had thus happen to mine - fortunately not on the freeway, because I had my wife and two children in the car. Needless to say, the abrupt loss of power is incredibly dangerous.

Just lost drive power? Power steering and power brakes still worked? Lights and hazard flashers still work?

 

[fromport]

I just had thus happen to mine - fortunately not on the freeway, because I had my wife and two children in the car. Needless to say, the abrupt loss of power is incredibly dangerous.

Just lost drive power? Power steering and power brakes still worked? Lights and hazard flashers still work?

When it happened to me,
no propulsion
no power steering
there is a little vacuum canister in the rav (the wirring sound when you open the door) that should provide at least a little breaking assist once, but not for long

 

[miimura]

there is a little vacuum canister in the rav (the wirring sound when you open the door) that should provide at least a little breaking assist once, but not for long

The vacuum brake booster pump runs off the 12V battery, so it should continue to work for quite a while. Since you have no motive power, it shouldn't be a problem unless you're going down a long hill, in which case it would be much easier to negotiate traffic since you will continue to have momentum going down the hill. Remember, the conventional brakes have the full power of the ICE car and the ABS will continue to work off 12V too. Stopping is not the problem - getting to a safe place at the side of the road is the problem.

 

[fromport]

there is a little vacuum canister in the rav (the wirring sound when you open the door) that should provide at least a little breaking assist once, but not for long

The vacuum brake booster pump runs off the 12V battery, so it should continue to work for quite a while.

Sounds logical!

Since you have no motive power, it shouldn't be a problem unless you're going down a long hill, in which case it would be much easier to negotiate traffic since you will continue to have momentum going down the hill. Remember, the conventional brakes have the full power of the ICE car and the ABS will continue to work off 12V too. Stopping is not the problem - getting to a safe place at the side of the road is the problem.

Indeed.
And when it happens, don't forget to reset the car by doing 4 complete power cycles.
That should give you propulsion again, although some people have experienced that within 10 miles it happens again.
I was lucky that it happened once and since then have put more than a 1000 miles on the car without a problem.
What you absolutely should do is go to the dealer and have them perform a "health check" so they can log the errors.

 

[unHookt]

I just had thus happen to mine - fortunately not on the freeway, because I had my wife and two children in the car. Needless to say, the abrupt loss of power is incredibly dangerous. my wife called Roseville Toyota, and they were very unhelpful, implying that we were SOL until the fix is released later this summer. This is a leased vehicle, and there's no way I'm paying for a car that will be inoperable for several months. If possible, I'm going to bring it into the dealer to see if I can get a loaner.

Update: In person, the dealer was very responsive and acknowledged the seriousness of the problem. They took the car in and provided a no-cost loaner (4Runner).

There were several error codes, even though the car fired up with no EV error messages on the day the I brought it in. For the next several days, their techs apparently played phone tag with Toyota corporate in search for a resolution.

Today (10 days from drop-off day), I received a call indicating that a new Tesla motor unit had arrived and would be installed by COB on Monday. Hopefully, this will resolve the issue once and for all.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Today (10 days from drop-off day), I received a call indicating that a new Tesla motor unit had arrived and would be installed by COB on Monday. Hopefully, this will resolve the issue once and for all.

It's unlikely this actually fixed the problem, which is two issues:

1) faulty speed sensor
2) software forces the main battery contactor open when it doesn't read the speed sensor

So, until the recall "campaign" is over, they are just placating us. I got a new motor, too, hopefully with a new speed sensor. But, it is highly doubtful that the sensor is some new and improved model.

More likely, it's from the same parts bin that the original faulty units were from.

 

[unHookt]

Picked up the vehicle yesterday morning and everything appeared to be well. Roseville Toyota did not charge the vehicle overnight (something Nissan always did when I brought the Leaf in for service), so I was unable to drive the car to work. Ugh.

I charged the car during the day and when I got home found that my range meter was indicating a 123 mile range with HVAC turned off. ??? I did not have extended charging enabled. Not sure how long that will last, but a curious side-effect for certain.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Picked up the vehicle yesterday morning and everything appeared to be well. Roseville Toyota did not charge the vehicle overnight (something Nissan always did when I brought the Leaf in for service), so I was unable to drive the car to work. Ugh.

I charged the car during the day and when I got home found that my range meter was indicating a 123 mile range with HVAC turned off. ??? I did not have extended charging enabled. Not sure how long that will last, but a curious side-effect for certain.

It will last until you drive the car.

http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=20518#p20518

 

[unHookt]

It's unlikely this actually fixed the problem

You called it. Two days ago, I started the car and it died on me as I was pulling out of the garage. Same symptoms, same "Check EV System" warning. It's going back to the dealer tomorrow. We'll see what happens now.

 

[unHookt]

I received a call from Toyota of Roseville. The rep indicates that the issue this time is a faulty motor generator ECU, which is being replaced. The part will be in sometime early next week. Thankfully, this is a warranty repair, as the part apparently costs approximately $4,000.

 

[ThePoorManTesla]

Hi,

Is there any update on the recall? If I remember well I read somewhere on the forum that people where told by dealer that the fix should be availaible somewhere in july...

Thanks

 

[DevinL]

Hi,

Is there any update on the recall? If I remember well I read somewhere on the forum that people where told by dealer that the fix should be availaible somewhere in july...

Thanks

I was at Carson Toyota last week and they said they haven't heard a thing about the recall from Toyota.