RavCharge, a solution to charge timer and entune woes

[root710]

I've had my car only a week and just signed up for trial of RAVcharge. I was wondering why does it not show any info about the actual rate of charge in kWh's or the volts and amps the car is receiving? Some public chargers don't tell you the amps you are getting so it's difficult to calculate your actual charge rate. This business of miles measurement seems like a foolish measurement versus the actual kw's being received or the kWh status of the battery.

I've also plugged into 120 volt 30 amp outlets and still seem to be charging at the 15 amp rate but I can't find out for sure because I don't see anywhere that shows what rate the car is actually charging at. I don't see this in entune app or on the cars dash info either. Am I missing something?

The RAVcharge app seems to have places you can set the volts and amps but if you don't know this info then you can't input it. Also if you do know the volt/amps of the outlet but the car isn't actually using that amount to charge at, your info will be inaccurate. I'm using a JESLA for my charging. When I encountered a 30 amp 120 V outlet I used a plug adapter from my RV to change it to a regular 3 prong plug. Could this be changing my rate if charge down to the 15 amp rate?

 

[Dsinned]

root710, you have asked lots of questions. I'll try to answer them.

I've had my car only a week and just signed up for trial of RAVcharge. I was wondering why does it not show any info about the actual rate of charge in kWh's or the volts and amps the car is receiving?

RAVCHARGE gets its info from ENTUNES. This info is not provided by Entunes.

Some public chargers don't tell you the amps you are getting so it's difficult to calculate your actual charge rate. This business of miles measurement seems like a foolish measurement versus the actual kw's being received or the kWh status of the battery.

Unfortunately, the charging measurements available in a RAV4 EV are quite limited. Too bad TESLA didn't have more freedom to incorporate more of its battery management technology in Toyota's RAV EV.

I've also plugged into 120 volt 30 amp outlets and still seem to be charging at the 15 amp rate but I can't find out for sure because I don't see anywhere that shows what rate the car is actually charging at. I don't see this in entune app or on the cars dash info either. Am I missing something?

I could be mistaken but I think a JESLA can be "fooled" into thinking your using a regular 3 prong plug outlet only rated for 120V 15A.

The RAVcharge app seems to have places you can set the volts and amps but if you don't know this info then you can't input it. Also if you do know the volt/amps of the outlet but the car isn't actually using that amount to charge at, your info will be inaccurate. I'm using a JESLA for my charging. When I encountered a 30 amp 120 V outlet I used a plug adapter from my RV to change it to a regular 3 prong plug. Could this be changing my rate if charge down to the 15 amp rate?

Same answer.

Solution: Get an OpenSource EVSE like a JuiceBox Premium. These type of EVSEs have LCD displays that tell you both voltage and amperage (and even the "rate of charge" on the JB's front panel display) of the charge being applied to your car. I think it would even work at 120V up to 30A with "your" particular adapter.

 

[TonyWilliams]

root710, you have asked lots of questions. I'll try to answer them...

I could be mistaken but I think a JESLA can be "fooled" into thinking your using using a regular 3 prong plug outlet only rated for 120V 15A.

The RAVcharge app seems to have places you can set the volts and amps but if you don't know this info then you can't input it. Also if you do know the volt/amps of the outlet but the car isn't actually using that amount to charge at, your info will be inaccurate. I'm using a JESLA for my charging. When I encountered a 30 amp 120 V outlet I used a plug adapter from my RV to change it to a regular 3 prong plug. Could this be changing my rate if charge down to the 15 amp rate?

Same answer.

Solution: Get an OpenSource EVSE like a JuiceBox Premium. These type of EVSEs have LCD displays that tell you both voltage and amperage (and even the "rate of charge" on the JB's front panel display) of the charge being applied to your car. I think it would even work at 120V up to 30A with "your" particular adapter.

You don't have to buy a whole new EVSE just to get volts and amps. That is just crazy.


http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=15136#p15136

 

[fooljoe]

I've had my car only a week and just signed up for trial of RAVcharge. I was wondering why does it not show any info about the actual rate of charge in kWh's or the volts and amps the car is receiving? Some public chargers don't tell you the amps you are getting so it's difficult to calculate your actual charge rate. This business of miles measurement seems like a foolish measurement versus the actual kw's being received or the kWh status of the battery.

RavCharge does show you the charging rate in kW - just perform a status update some time after you start charging (the longer you wait the more accurate it will be) and go to the charge tab to see (or you can see this info via SMS.) Unfortunately, as Dsinned alluded to, I can't show you a real-time measurement because the car doesn't provide that data. What the app does is calculate your effective charge rate from your before/after SOC and time elapsed. Note that the value displayed will be in pack terms, i.e. after charging efficiency is taken into account. So if you're pulling 9.5 kW from the wall, RavCharge will show ~7.6 kW going into the pack.

I've also plugged into 120 volt 30 amp outlets and still seem to be charging at the 15 amp rate but I can't find out for sure because I don't see anywhere that shows what rate the car is actually charging at. I don't see this in entune app or on the cars dash info either. Am I missing something?

The only place you'd find these is at RV parks, and you'd need a TT-30 adapter, which Tesla doesn't offer for the UMC/Jesla. I think you could get around this if you're using a Jesla by using one of Tesla's 240v 30-amp adapters (such as a 10-30), and making your own adapter with a female 10/30 and male TT-30. If you do this your Rav should charge at 20 amps (it could in theory do 24, but the Rav won't go any higher than 20 on 120v). Is this right Tony, or will the Jesla automatically downgrade the pilot regardless of adapter if it detects a 120v supply? If you use the Jesla's regular 120v adapter you'll automatically be limited (by the Jesla) to 12 amps, regardless of what the source is capable of. Whatever you do, you can use RavCharge to check the charging rate as described above.

The RAVcharge app seems to have places you can set the volts and amps but if you don't know this info then you can't input it. Also if you do know the volt/amps of the outlet but the car isn't actually using that amount to charge at, your info will be inaccurate. I'm using a JESLA for my charging. When I encountered a 30 amp 120 V outlet I used a plug adapter from my RV to change it to a regular 3 prong plug. Could this be changing my rate if charge down to the 15 amp rate?

The purpose of the volts/amps input is to give you an idea of how long you'd need to charge which is much more accurate than the ambiguous and incorrectly calculated 120v/240v values the car gives you. You should be able to get a pretty good idea of what the values should be by looking at the EVSE/outlet you're using, and optionally using a voltage tester (although you should expect the voltage to drop a few volts once you start charging.) For example, a regular old 120v outlet will give you about 115v and 12a, most public charging stations will give you about 200v and 30a, and a 50 amp outlet installed at home or an RV park should deliver about 230v at 40a.

Once you start charging, perform a status update as described above to estimate your charging rate, then adjust the volts/amps sliders until the two time-to-charge estimates mostly agree, then you'll have a good idea of what you're plugged into. Or just install Tony's add-on display when it becomes available! Thanks for trying RavCharge, and don't hesitate to ask if you have any other questions!

 

[Dsinned]

. . . well then, I must be CRAZY! :mrgreen:

http://s862.photobucket.com/user/dsinned99/media/JuiceBoxdisplays_zps9788d772.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

 

[TonyWilliams]

. . . well then, I must be CRAZY! :mrgreen:

http://s862.photobucket.com/user/dsinned99/media/JuiceBoxdisplays_zps9788d772.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0

Did you buy that just to get volts and amps?

 

[Dsinned]

The 1.7" uOLED I used to replace the 1.4" uLCD - both available from 4D Systems - I purchased as an option for my JB and reprogrammed the Arduino firmware to incorporate a larger font size and a screen saver function. The other display with the dual AC Voltage and Amperage digital readouts, I had laying around that I bought from either Ebay or Amazon for about 15 bucks.

I replaced my Basic JB's aluminum cover plate with a sturdy 3/16" thick sheet of plexiglass, so both displays can be viewable while mounted inside the enclosure. Total cost of these hardware mods was about $50.

The firmware mods were somewhat trivial but turned out to be a MAJOR effort on my part b/c I'm definitely not a software engineer.

I am very pleased with the results and sometimes just go out into my garage to admire my really neat looking, customized JuiceBox. :mrgreen:

 

[root710]

Thanks everyone for your great replies. It sounds like trying to get an adapter for 30 amp 120 volts is a waste of time if it will end up getting dumbed down to 20 amps in the long run. No significant improvement over a standard 15 amp outlet.

Tony, any idea of when your meter will be available?

One other question about the RAVcharge interface. Is it possible to stop an ongoing charge session through the app? I see the button to start charging but don't see anything for stopping it remotely. Maybe the timer settings could be set up to stop charging in one minute or something? I was charging last night and when I hit the 100 mile range I realized I still had it set to extended charge. I first tried to turn off extended charging to no avail. Then I tried to just stop charging all together since I was pretty much at a full regular charge. I couldn't accomplish this either.

 

[Dsinned]

Just unplug your J1772 cable . . . then you can change the charging setup in the car to a standard charge for next time. If you want to do this "remotely", while still plugged in and actively charging in "extended" mode, I don't know if that is possible.

Also, I started a thread over on the myNissanLeaf forum that you should read for more info about charging from a 125V 30A source (aka RV Park TT-30).

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=18034

 

[fooljoe]

Stopping a charge at a specified SOC or time (or on command) is something I'd love to offer, but unfortunately the car's interface offers no such command. Same goes for switching between normal and extended charge modes.

Aside from simply unplugging, the only way to stop a charge is through the use of a "smart" EVSE. However, as yet no retail EVSE offers that feature. I believe the Juicebox with an optional wifi adapter could have such an interface - although the interface might only be accessible to the Juicebox devs. Similarly, Chris at openEVSE is working on a new revision that could have such a capability, but it's not out there yet. Of course any openEVSE or Juicebox builder could add the necessary components and modify the firmware himself, since it's all open source.

When such EVSEs are available I plan to add the functionality to RavCharge to interface with them, but it's just not a reality yet. Another approach that may become a reality is to add a device to your car that can tap into the CAN bus and also interface directly with your EVSE.

 

[fromport]

I am building a similar setup at the moment in my rav.
Did you use 2 floating fuses in the supply line to the meter ? fuse with something like 500mA ?
That is how I intend to do it, am curious how you (Tony) did this.

Still thinking how/where to attach it to the cable:

Btw, we are all worried about diameter/loss in the cables/connector with 40 amp load.
But the connector in the rav seems small to me for carrying 40 amps continous:

 

[TonyWilliams]

Yes, I used a 500ma fuse. (quick blow).

 

[jimbo69ny]

Any chance you could add charge start and charge stop buttons? I am self employed and I don't have a schedule so that whole part of ravcharge os useless to me. What I could use though is a way to stop charging while it's plugged in and start it later via the app. I Have the feature in entune on my pip. I was hoping to get it for the Rav too.

 

[fooljoe]

Any chance you could add charge start and charge stop buttons? I am self employed and I don't have a schedule so that whole part of ravcharge os useless to me. What I could use though is a way to stop charging while it's plugged in and start it later via the app. I Have the feature in entune on my pip. I was hoping to get it for the Rav too.

Refer to this post about stopping charges. The PiP lets you stop charges? That's the first I've heard of that - I'll have to investigate. By the way, RavCharge will work with the Plug-in Prius as well. I just have to enter a "custom" battery capacity for it.

Regardless of your employment status, your utility is on a schedule. If you haven't switched to time-of-use (TOU) metering yet to get the cheapest charging rates overnight you should definitely look into it. Bus aside from the charging timer features, RavCharges offers a number of other features you might find useful, including enhanced climate control options, SMS commands, and range and time-to-charge calculators that actually work.

 

[michael]

I realize these issues have been discussed, but I'm not clear as to the present capabilities of RavCharge

Here is what I would like to do:

1. Complete charging within a reasonable time before my scheduled departure, no matter the starting charge level, whether extended/standard charging ("just in time" charging). The dash timer allows this somewhat, but it seems to introduce in a safety factor of time that is quite variable, so it's difficult to consistently hit my target. Presently, I have a 7:30 departure schedule, but I have to set the dash timer to 9:00 to get it to finish sixish. Of course, sometimes it doesn't even finish by 7:30 and I'm hosed. You get the idea.... I understood you were working on this, but I don't know the status


2. I would like the climate to run for more than 15 minutes to give myself a wider window of actual departure. A timer with multiple climate starts 15 or 20 minutes apart would do the job...??? Does Ravcharge permit this? For the reason cited below, the in-car timer won't work for this...


3. Contrary to what I was told on the forum, the in-car timer seems to become hopelessly confused if I set:

Climate to 7
Charge completion to 9 (which will really finish charging maybe sixish)

In the above case, the in-car timer seems to look only at the first event (climate at 7) and only after that is reached does it look at the next event (charge by 9) and begins to charge, but by then it's much too late.

Can Ravcharge help me? Truly independently control climate and charging? As a fallback, if I can rely on Ravcharge to handle the just-in-time charging, maybe I can set multiple climate starts on the in-car timer?

Thanks and apologies for probably going over things that have been asked and answered.

 

[jimbo69ny]

My utility rates are very cheap here in Central NY. Im not sure about other parts of NY but my rate, including delivery charges is only $.11 a KWH. I dont have a time of day meter. I dont even know if they offer discounted rates overnight here. Regardless, I have PV panels so that also doesnt matter.

Huh, I just checked entune for my PIP and the stop charging button isnt there anymore. It only says "now charging" the same as it does for the Rav4 EV. Weird. I know it was there before because I used it.

Does that mean its not possible to add the feature to ravcharge?

 

[fooljoe]

1. Complete charging within a reasonable time before my scheduled departure, no matter the starting charge level, whether extended/standard charging ("just in time" charging). The dash timer allows this somewhat, but it seems to introduce in a safety factor of time that is quite variable, so it's difficult to consistently hit my target. Presently, I have a 7:30 departure schedule, but I have to set the dash timer to 9:00 to get it to finish sixish. Of course, sometimes it doesn't even finish by 7:30 and I'm hosed. You get the idea.... I understood you were working on this, but I don't know the status

You've got the right idea, setting your departure timer to 9. Now what you need to do is set a timer in RavCharge to start charging at some point in your low-rate window. You can use the car's timer to get the mid to deep charges done when you want them to be done, and use the RavCharge start timer to make sure the shallow charges complete early enough. Also turn on ECP to make sure the really deep and extended charges don't start before your low-rate window. You can email me some more details if you'd like me to help you determine a good time to choose for your RavCharge timer.

2. I would like the climate to run for more than 15 minutes to give myself a wider window of actual departure. A timer with multiple climate starts 15 or 20 minutes apart would do the job...??? Does Ravcharge permit this? For the reason cited below, the in-car timer won't work for this...

Yeah, you can use RavCharge's multiple recurring climate timers for this. You might want to set them about 25 minutes apart, as sometimes it'll take 5 minutes or so for Entune to get the command to the car, and if your previous event is still running when the second timer kicks in it'll declare victory right away and not start it again.

3. Contrary to what I was told on the forum, the in-car timer seems to become hopelessly confused if I set:

Climate to 7
Charge completion to 9 (which will really finish charging maybe sixish)

In the above case, the in-car timer seems to look only at the first event (climate at 7) and only after that is reached does it look at the next event (charge by 9) and begins to charge, but by then it's much too late.

That's the first I've heard of this one. Weird. I'd just leave your charge timer as-is and use a RavCharge timer for climate.

 

[fooljoe]

My utility rates are very cheap here in Central NY. Im not sure about other parts of NY but my rate, including delivery charges is only $.11 a KWH. I dont have a time of day meter. I dont even know if they offer discounted rates overnight here. Regardless, I have PV panels so that also doesnt matter.

11c/kWh is ok, but you can probably do better. Utility rates are very high on average where I live (Socal), but I still charge cheaper than that overnight (~9c/kWh.) Plus having solar gives you more reason to switch to TOU. TOU not only means cheaper charging overnight, it also means high rates during the day when your solar is producing. So if you're producing an excess during the day, that means the utility is paying YOU more! In my case, every excess kWh produced by my solar is good for 3-4 kWh to charge my cars. Of course, YMMV, but it's definitely worth at least checking with your utility to see what sort of plans are available.

Huh, I just checked entune for my PIP and the stop charging button isnt there anymore. It only says "now charging" the same as it does for the Rav4 EV. Weird. I know it was there before because I used it.

Does that mean its not possible to add the feature to ravcharge?

Nope, unfortunately the interface just doesn't allow it.

 

[yblaser]

Happy (belated) 1st birthday RAVCharge! It's been a great year. Renewing for a second...

 

[fooljoe]

Thanks for your continued support Peter!