I’m in Los Angeles. 2014 with 107k miles. Halfway home from work today, which is about a 16 mile drive, my car started slowing down and a vibrating, rumbling noise started coming from the front of the car. This came out of nowhere. The volume and frequency of the rumbling went down as I decelerated. The battery and all electrical actually seem fine. The car will barely drive just a couple mph, but attempting to drive makes a lot of noise and it has very little power. I left it basically where it broke down. I walked back to the spot in the road where this first started to look and see if there were any clues, but there was nothing on the ground. I’m going to have it towed to Hamer Toyota tomorrow, but does anyone have any initial thoughts what this could be? I imagine something horrible happened with the drive motor. The drive unit was already replaced once under warranty because of the whining issue.
My RAV4EV came to a GRINDING halt today
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miimura
Well-known member
The most likely failure point based on your description is the output spline on the rotor. I had my drive unit replaced the first time because of bearing whine. The second time was because the rebuilt unit that was installed developed a thunk during torque reversal. The diagnosis was this spline having play back and forth. If I had continued driving it, it probably would have failed like yours.
Tesla sells no parts, so whether it's the rotor or the pinion gear into which it slides, the problem is the same: you need a donor used LDU for parts, and the entire unit must be disassembled to replace the pinion gear (both the rotor and the pinion gear would need replacement, if either has failed).
Bottom line: the entire LDU must be rebuilt -- if it's salvageable.
From your description, you may have a lump of rust broken free and jammed between the rotor and the stator, which is a downstream failure of the rotor coolant seal. In this case, you might not need the rotor/pinion to be replaced, but it's still going to all have to come apart to remove rust, polish the rotor, clean the stator, and very likely coolant will be in the "tunnel" on its way to the inverter side. Same labor as above, but fewer parts replaced.
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Your Toyota dealer is going to tell you that the LDU has to be replaced; they don't repair them (no parts available) and have a single part number for the LDU, so when anything fails inside the "black box", they can only replace it, not repair it. Toyota's price for a reman LDU exceeds the value of the car. The only economical option is to have a 3rd-party repair/replace the LDU. Currently, QC Charge in San Diego is the place offering LDU repair and replacement the loudest, and they do have a lot of experience with RAV4 EVs. Ballpark quotes have been $5k plus shipping the car there. If the rotor/pinion gear need to be salvaged from another RAV4 EV LDU (the pinion gear isn't interchangeable with the Model S, but the rotor should be), the cost goes up.
Bottom line: the entire LDU must be rebuilt -- if it's salvageable.
From your description, you may have a lump of rust broken free and jammed between the rotor and the stator, which is a downstream failure of the rotor coolant seal. In this case, you might not need the rotor/pinion to be replaced, but it's still going to all have to come apart to remove rust, polish the rotor, clean the stator, and very likely coolant will be in the "tunnel" on its way to the inverter side. Same labor as above, but fewer parts replaced.
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Your Toyota dealer is going to tell you that the LDU has to be replaced; they don't repair them (no parts available) and have a single part number for the LDU, so when anything fails inside the "black box", they can only replace it, not repair it. Toyota's price for a reman LDU exceeds the value of the car. The only economical option is to have a 3rd-party repair/replace the LDU. Currently, QC Charge in San Diego is the place offering LDU repair and replacement the loudest, and they do have a lot of experience with RAV4 EVs. Ballpark quotes have been $5k plus shipping the car there. If the rotor/pinion gear need to be salvaged from another RAV4 EV LDU (the pinion gear isn't interchangeable with the Model S, but the rotor should be), the cost goes up.
JDP
Active member
I would like to know more about “Toyota's price for a reman LDU exceeds the value of the car.”
Nationwide search on car gurus has them ranging from $8k-$11k. Is the motor really that much? My last motor replacement was $6300 with the labor and parts a couple years ago.
Nationwide search on car gurus has them ranging from $8k-$11k. Is the motor really that much? My last motor replacement was $6300 with the labor and parts a couple years ago.
I've been seeing the 2012-2014 RAV4 EV selling in the $7-10k range fairly regularly on the US west coast. The Tesla LDU remans were $6k a year ago, but the two Toyota DUs I've seen quoted (by Toyota) were nearer to $10k installed; if yours was $6300, I commend your good fortune.
I submit that few will opt to invest (using optimistic figures) $6,300 into an $11k car, esp. if they know the dismal record of longevity of the Tesla LDU remans. I will qualify that last, that if you obtain a Tesla reman with the Tesla "coolant delete" manifold, this would sweeten the deal considerably.
I love my RAV4 EV, and plan to keep it for a while yet; it serves my needs well. But I don't advise my friends to buy one, as they're almost never a good choice for a used EV unless you go in with your eyes wide open and either are able to DIY the most common issues (OBC fuses, heater + DC-DC fuse, LDU rotor seal coolant leak/original steel rotor ball bearings, etc., coolant pump(s)) or have deep pockets and a willingness to have the car shipped far away (for most) and unavailable for use whist repairs are being accomplished.
I'm retired and experienced, and the car fits my life well (for now).
I submit that few will opt to invest (using optimistic figures) $6,300 into an $11k car, esp. if they know the dismal record of longevity of the Tesla LDU remans. I will qualify that last, that if you obtain a Tesla reman with the Tesla "coolant delete" manifold, this would sweeten the deal considerably.
I love my RAV4 EV, and plan to keep it for a while yet; it serves my needs well. But I don't advise my friends to buy one, as they're almost never a good choice for a used EV unless you go in with your eyes wide open and either are able to DIY the most common issues (OBC fuses, heater + DC-DC fuse, LDU rotor seal coolant leak/original steel rotor ball bearings, etc., coolant pump(s)) or have deep pockets and a willingness to have the car shipped far away (for most) and unavailable for use whist repairs are being accomplished.
I'm retired and experienced, and the car fits my life well (for now).
JDP
Active member
I feel the same--love the car but know from hearing from everyone here that it's only a matter of time before something fails. The first loudly milling DU was replaced under factory warranty--not sure how much that one cost. I checked my repair bill and it was $5824.42 for my (third) LDU in May 2022, covered under my first platinum extended warranty. That repair was done in Clearwater, FL in less than 4 weeks and only that long because they had to wait for the specialist to come program it.
I found a DU listed for $6500 on Toyota Carlsbad but I called and Ed from parts said they have to open a case with Toyota who will order and he thinks it'll be at least 2 months. My first warranty still has value in it but I bought a second platinum warranty that expires in 2027 to extend my coverage knowing that it could happen again in as little as a few thousand miles and with the understanding that the warranty is limited to the value of the car so the first Platinum warranty won't have enough value left for a fourth DU.
The second warranty should start from $0 as explained by the guy who sold it to me. So if the part is listed for $6500 there should be enough value to get it replaced. As long as I'm willing to wait for the process. Or is Toyota unable to get the anymore and is just going to say "sorry, not sorry" and offer me a refund on the remaining value of my second warranty if/when I push for a new DU?
I found a DU listed for $6500 on Toyota Carlsbad but I called and Ed from parts said they have to open a case with Toyota who will order and he thinks it'll be at least 2 months. My first warranty still has value in it but I bought a second platinum warranty that expires in 2027 to extend my coverage knowing that it could happen again in as little as a few thousand miles and with the understanding that the warranty is limited to the value of the car so the first Platinum warranty won't have enough value left for a fourth DU.
The second warranty should start from $0 as explained by the guy who sold it to me. So if the part is listed for $6500 there should be enough value to get it replaced. As long as I'm willing to wait for the process. Or is Toyota unable to get the anymore and is just going to say "sorry, not sorry" and offer me a refund on the remaining value of my second warranty if/when I push for a new DU?
I agree with your understanding of how the extended warranty works: it covers repairs up to the value of the vehicle, but no more.
I have not heard directly of LDU unavailability, only 3rd-hand rumors. I also do not know if Tesla is applying the "coolant delete" manifold to Toyota reman units.
My LDU's speed sensor showed leaked coolant in Feb and I took it off the road. I removed the LDU and disassembled it to rotor removal only (ie did not split the gearbox, and only checked the "tunnel" and inverter side for coolant: none) two weeks ago, and am awaiting an IR temp sensor to arrive tomorrow before I reassemble it for install next week. I've also had a coolant plug machined (twice) for a DIY "coolant delete" mod. I feel that, with no coolant in the rotor and therefore no seal leak to worry about, and with the modern ceramic ball bearings on the rotor, I won't have to open this LDU again.
Oh, and it's a reman unit from 2018 . . . I got 60k on it before it leaked
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My OBC was replace under warranty by the previous owner, and its fuse(s) failed last year (replaced by me). The heater failed under my warranty (takes out a fuse in the DC-DC as well). The battery contactor failed under my extended warranty.
I guess I'm waiting for the nav system HDD to go next . . .
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I tend to use PartsDeal for Toyota parts, and they list that part No. for ~$5,900
https://www.toyotapartsdeal.com/oem/toyota~motor~assy~electric~g1100-0r012-84.html
Still, I've had both PartsDeal and parts.toyota.com let me order a part, then cancel it later saying it's not actually available for sale. For example, I've been trying to locate a new plastic lens for a '99 Sienna instrument cluster for a couple of years, and every couple of months I order it, but they always cancel the order in a day or two . . . and it's still listed as available on both websites.
Such is modern life.
This may not be the correct thread for parts sales, but I am considering parting out my Rav4 EV. The whole car is working perfectly fine(113k mi), but I am several thousand dollars upside down on my auto loan, un/self-employed and must get rid of it. A true nightmare... I need to sell the car for almost $11k.
But if I can get at least $5k out of my LDU, it would make perfect sense for me to sell that. I also have an EV 4x4 conversion project which needs a sizable battery and AC and cooling system...
I rebuilt my drive unit in 2022 when it failed a month after buying it. I ordered a kit from Ukraine when they were under $400. I didn't do anything about the shaft seal surface but i did have a hard time installing the seal smoothly. I damaged one of the lips upon installation. The condition of the stator and the DU as a whole was decent compared to many photos/videos I've seen of failed drive units. It only lasted about 6k mi before the seal failed again (it was my fault).
I then learned about the LDU coolant loop solution Tesla and QC Charge have but I didn't know if my unit was still good. I opted to bypass the coolant loop without spending $600 - I cut and welded the original coolant manifold, and deleted the shaft seal (then dried the motor and inverter housings). The manifold is ugly compared to QC Charge's billet manifold, but it worked. My drive unit is fine so far. The DC isolation resistance on U,V & W to housing was precisely 3.5Mohm (which I read in one thread is in tolerance for the LDU).The bearings have about 6k miles since rebuild and it is effectively 'long term' repaired with that coolant bypass.
Anyway, lmk if you or anyone would want to spend such a sum on a non-warranty used but rebuilt and potentially long-term reliable drive unit. I am located in Utah.
But if I can get at least $5k out of my LDU, it would make perfect sense for me to sell that. I also have an EV 4x4 conversion project which needs a sizable battery and AC and cooling system...
I rebuilt my drive unit in 2022 when it failed a month after buying it. I ordered a kit from Ukraine when they were under $400. I didn't do anything about the shaft seal surface but i did have a hard time installing the seal smoothly. I damaged one of the lips upon installation. The condition of the stator and the DU as a whole was decent compared to many photos/videos I've seen of failed drive units. It only lasted about 6k mi before the seal failed again (it was my fault).
I then learned about the LDU coolant loop solution Tesla and QC Charge have but I didn't know if my unit was still good. I opted to bypass the coolant loop without spending $600 - I cut and welded the original coolant manifold, and deleted the shaft seal (then dried the motor and inverter housings). The manifold is ugly compared to QC Charge's billet manifold, but it worked. My drive unit is fine so far. The DC isolation resistance on U,V & W to housing was precisely 3.5Mohm (which I read in one thread is in tolerance for the LDU).The bearings have about 6k miles since rebuild and it is effectively 'long term' repaired with that coolant bypass.
Anyway, lmk if you or anyone would want to spend such a sum on a non-warranty used but rebuilt and potentially long-term reliable drive unit. I am located in Utah.
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Simon in the midwest (?) is having to sell his RAV4 EV, as he is moving (back) to England. We've been in contact as he was also working on a CCS upgrade, as are Ricky (his is working) and I (stalled with LDU repairs, etc.). He emailed me yesterday:
You might explore them, if yours doesn't have a ton of miles on it.
Simon said:
You might explore them, if yours doesn't have a ton of miles on it.
Thanks for the suggestion. It looks like the mileage has quite an impact on their offer. They offered me just over 1/3 of what I owe. Though I would definitely trust a higher mileage rav4 ev with a fixed LDU than a low mileage one (if I was aware of their problems but unwilling to do the modification myself).
Syrinx
Active member
I had the same situation where it just died on the highway. Just got the bad news from QC Charge that my motor is toast. Tony gave me the award for most coolant found in a motor casing , which means complete replacement. Based on full LDU replacement costs, I am doubtful that I will be doing that. I have a JdeMO, so my options are part it out or sell it somehow. Not thrilled about any of that, but got 150k+ miles out of it, so not bad. Any suggestions?
, which means complete replacement. Based on full LDU replacement costs, I am doubtful that I will be doing that. I have a JdeMO, so my options are part it out or sell it somehow. Not thrilled about any of that, but got 150k+ miles out of it, so not bad. Any suggestions?I am sorry, I feel your pain.I had the same situation where it just died on the highway. Just got the bad news from QC Charge that my motor is toast. Tony gave me the award for most coolant found in a motor casing
Did they quote you for another LDU?
I am still failing to sell my 113k mi vehicle (In perfectly good condition, I just don't need it and it's costing me a lot). If I can sell my LDU for $5-$6k I would do that. I recently deleted the rotor coolant loop (it is an ugly homebrew solution but it's not exposed). Let me know if you'd be interested. Located in UT. I may be able to ship it freight from a friend's business.
I could interested in your JdeMo! Lowell Bergman…Tony can price it…I had the same situation where it just died on the highway. Just got the bad news from QC Charge that my motor is toast. Tony gave me the award for most coolant found in a motor casing
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