Longer Range Battery / Extra battery

[n3ckf]

Tony I could be interested in that product, assuming my Rav4EV is still in good shape by the time it's available.
(I suppose i'd have to give up carrying a pile of charging stuff int he 3rd seat well but thats all i keep in there anyway. And if i had another 20KW of battery, i wouldnt *need* those chargers nearly as often )

 

[dstjohn99]

I would be way more interested in getting more RAV4 batteries if there was a way to use them in a V2H solution as well. Otherwise, it would be this or a couple of Powerwalls for the house.

+1

 

[smkettner]

I would be far more interested if the car was more reliable. Or lower cost to repair what does fail.
Really be nice to have a higher density OEM battery with 60 kWh.
Then another 20 in the trunk with Jdemo and the rest of the J adapters this car would be unbelievable.
The money spent could just be a hole if other items need attention. I mean there is no warranty that goes 250k like the rest would be set up for.

 

[Promedic]

I am not a battery specialist, but if one 18650 cell has 3400mAh and 46g, I would need 80 cells vor 1kw/h = 3860g .
Kreisel Electric realize 4,1kg/kw/h - sounds plausible for me.
They just do it smarter than Tesla.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I am not a battery specialist, but if one 18650 cell has 3400mAh and 46g, I would need 80 cells vor 1kw/h = 3860g .
Kreisel Electric realize 4,1kg/kw/h - sounds plausible for me.
They just do it smarter than Tesla.

https://www.math.ubc.ca/~wetton/papers/NCR18650B.pdf

Panasonic 3400mah cell:

48.6 grams
676 Wh/L
243 Wh/kg (4.115kg/kWh)

First, you'll note that the PUBLISHED weight of the cells alone is your company's calculated pack weight. In other words, total ********.


Tesla 90kWh battery:

87kWh = 7104 cells @ 3400mah * 3.6v nominal and weighs about 500kg (1100 pounds).

500kg / 87kWh = 5.75kg/kWh


7104 cells * 48.6g = 345.3kg (760 pounds)

All hardware, not including the cells (crash worthy box, compartmentalized cells for fire mitigation, relays, fuses, copper cables, buss bars, cooling, BMS, etc), has an estimated weight, based on estimated weight of the entire battery assembly, as follows:

500kg - 345kg = 155kg (341 pounds)

The 155kg battery box not only holds 345kg of batteries, it does so in government testing to the highest standards.

In addtition, the battery box is a structural part of the Tesla car.

Again, there is no magic in this work.

Like the company you reference (or any aftermarket battery manufacturer that is neither subject to crash testing, or structural augmentation, or fire mitigation, etc), we can build this battery for for the RAV4 EV with the cell weight plus about 23-45kg (50- 100 pounds) in hardware.

That means a 21.75kWh battery in the RAV4 EV might be:

1776 cells @ 48.6g = 86.3kg (190 pounds) + 45kg (100 pounds) = 131kg (290 pounds)
Total weight 131kg / 21.75 = 6kg per kWh

Using 23kg (50 pounds) of hardware = 5kg per kWh

**********

2024 cells (92s * 22p) * 48.6g = 98.4kg (217 pounds) might be a better combo

2024 * (3.6v * 3400mah) = 24.8kWh

For reference, the official weight of the original Nissan LEAF 24kWh pack was 300kg (660 pounds). The RAV4 battery at about mid 40kWh weighs 860 pounds.

 

[Promedic]

You are right Tony, the battery has about 6kg/kwh in real life.

The guys converted the original battery pack of a Volkswagen E-Golf (330kg 24,2 kwh) to a Kreisel battery pack (330kg 55,7kwh) the car can charge with 150kw Charger in 20min from 20 to 80 % SOC
see: http://www.kreiselelectric.com/en/projects/electric-golf/

Here some battery pack data of the Kreisel Yeti 4x4:
"Integrated into the floor of the vehicle, the battery packs have a total capacity of 64 kWh and ensure a range in excess of 350 kilometres. The weight of the battery pack including the casing, BMS and electronics is 350 kg with a nominal voltage of 367 V (performance weight 5.5 kg/kWh and energy density 2.5 dm³/kWh)."
http://www.kreiselelectric.com/en/projects/electric-yeti-4x4/

I am sure they can convert the 390kg RAV4 EV battery pack to a 60-70kwh pack.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I am sure they can convert the 390kg RAV4 EV battery pack to a 60-70kwh pack.

Yes, anybody can! It's just swapping out the expensive cells with more expensive cells, and some software. The cooling system will be a major pain in the posterior, however.

Not too many folks are going to do that unless:

1) Their battery failed
2) They have no warranty (all cars were sold with 8 year / 100,000 mile warranty for the battery)

That's why we will likely make an external pack to augment the existing one.

 

[evdrive]

How is this project proceeding? Is it still on your product roadmap?

 

[TonyWilliams]

How is this project proceeding? Is it still on your product roadmap?

Still in the planning stage.

 

[Promedic]

It seems that your former gouverneur is also a "Kreisel Electric" fan.
He just bought a Mercedes Geländewagen prototype with 80kw/h battery,360kw power, max speed 114 miles/h, 5,6 sec from 0 to 100km/h (62mph) range minimum 200 miles from Kreisel Electric.

https://www.facebook.com/TheArnoldF...6483.153291844723594/1376157982436968/?type=3

Newslink (sorry only in german):
http://forbes.at/e-mobility-sensati...hrt-mit-arnold-schwarzenegger-in-die-zukunft/

 

[daddyfixit]

I don't have room to add two of these packs but one might be worth looking into. If one would fit into the back foot well.

How would one be able to get one of these extra battery packs installed?

 

[TonyWilliams]

We have launched a $7500 deposit for funding research into this project.

Extreme limited participation (probably 10-15 max).

200 mile range

15-30kWh USABLE added

Final sale price will be "cost-plus".

 

[Ev_Bob]

Would installation be limited to California based Rav4 EVs?

 

[TonyWilliams]

Would installation be limited to California based Rav4 EVs?

If you want us to install, the car can be shipped to our office at:

Quick Charge Power LLC
1780 La Costa Meadows Drive
Suite 104
San Marcos, CA 92078

 

[Ev_Bob]

Would installation be limited to California based Rav4 EVs?

If you want us to install, the car can be shipped to our office at:

Quick Charge Power LLC
1780 La Costa Meadows Drive
Suite 104
San Marcos, CA 92078

Thanks!

Any estimate on when this will take place? In the event I purchase a Rav4 EV from California, it would be easier to have it shipped to your location then shipped to me ;-)

With the dimensions of the modules being 42.5" x 18" x 8" - would it be possible to install three packs (one in the foot well, one ontop of that, and one mounted to the trunk floor next to the second one?) - this way the trunk would be level throughout?

Thanks again!

 

[TonyWilliams]

It's cheap to ship the RAV4 to us.

Sure, the battery could be anywhere, but we are concentrating all efforts on the third row "well".

I hope to have a definitive answer by 31 Dec 2017.

 

[n3ckf]

i figure driving the car to san marcos from up here (east of Sacramento) will be an exciting part of the installation

 

[tridub]

Hi Tony,

I have a few questions about your proposed extra battery. If these questions have already been answered in the previous 10 pages of posts, please humor me:

1. Would/could the GOM automatically adjust to the extra battery capacity, or would it just read "135 miles" of range for the first 75 miles of travel, or what? If the GOM can't handle it, how would drivers know how much range they really had?

2. I'm a little concerned about adding 300 more pounds of weight behind the rear axle, because my front wheels already want to squeal when I take off in Sport Mode. I'm afraid traction could get much worse with even more "junk in the trunk." (I suppose I could simulate this myself by lying my fat ass in the back of my RAV while someone else drives it!)

3. Is there any safety hazard associated with putting the battery inside of the passenger compartment, if that's what you're planning to do, or do you intend to seal off the rear footwell and vent the battery to outside? I think I sometimes notice strange smells while/after charging now, so if I'm not imagining that, would those smells get worse with an internal battery?

4. What is your current guesstimate on the final price for this upgrade? I seem to recall reading $12,500 at one point, so is that still in the ballpark, or might the $7,500 deposit end up being the final price?

Thanks!

 

[TonyWilliams]

1) Are you using the GOM for range information now? Since it's not accurate today, I can assure you that it won't be accurate with any mods.

2) Go buy 300 pounds of lead plates or other dense material back there and try it out. It may need a slight adjustment to the springs and shocks.

3) I don't know what you're smelling. The cells are sealed, and do not "vent". As to safety, all things are relative. You drive on public highways where 30,000 people die every year?

4) It will be more than $7500. That's a deposit. I don't know the final price.

 

[ph2]

If Tony's expansion kit ties into the electrical system outside of the Tesla pack (i.e. follows the same pathway as the JdeMO) then the system will not recognize it as a change in pack capacity, unless some changes are made in the software.

The system will interpret the additional energy as a decrease in consumption from the battery and an increase in efficiency (miles/kWh). In other words, it will look similar to continuous regen (much the same as JdeMO). Your 'guessometer' will go up as it adapts to the change but only as a result of the increasing average efficiency.

If it uses the OEM charger, charger times will increase and the system will reflect the increase in predicted charge time, but only due to the change in amperage going to the Tesla pack, not as a result of it 'knowing' the pack is now larger.