Longer Range Battery / Extra battery

[TonyWilliams]

Honestly, I doubt I would base a model for extra battery packs on the current pack. It would be a limited market.

I posted estimated pricing at the beginning of the thread.

 

[jimbo69ny]

My guess is that there wouldn't be enough packs in existence but would it be possible to get another RAV4 Ev pack and bolt it up under the existing pack? Sure it would take away from ground clearance but I don't do any off-roading anyway. I can't lose space on the inside of my car. I use my Rav for work and I'm always moving tools, building materials or appliances.

I'd want either another Rav battery under the car or a removable battery pack that could go on one of those hitch mounted platforms. If neither of those, a second 240 volt charger for faster charging.

 

[fromport]

This would be nice if it were true ;-)

 

[tcboyd]

That's exactly what my dashboard looks like. Well, except that the GOM would say "50" instead of 150, and I wouldn't have reset the trip odometer since the last 2 fill-ups. Other than that, exactly the same.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Well, it's official. The Rav4 EV is quite popular with Uber / Lyft drivers, as we have been selling a LOT of JdeMOs to folks who use the car just for this reason. I think this market alone could launch an extended range battery.

We have located a source for new 3400mah cells, and a way to package them efficiently. That means we can easily match the existing 92 cells in series, and have an "eternal" supply of cells. My previous understanding that we had 2900mah cells in our existing pack was wrong... it seems quite clear that we have the same 2600mah (that are actually closer to 2500mah in testing) that were in the Roadster, Smart ED, and of course, the Mercedes B-Class ED.

So, 3400 cells would be a HUGE increase in density... about 33%.

It's entirely possible that 20kWh usable / 22kWh can be placed under the rear third row seat storage area. I think the cost could be $550 per kWh complete, so about $12,500. Yes, I think I would still want to design it for an optional third battery that would sit on top of the first one. Yes, that would make the car have a 250-300 mile range. It's important that the cells be modular to be installed by easily by hand by able bodied folks.

The floor of the trunk would remain flat. I want to do this without significant heaters (yes, there has to be basic heating) and without air conditioning compressors.

Going forward to the front on the vehicle would be:

1) two DC cables tied to the main traction battery
2) isolation relay to separate the two packs for dual CHAdeMO charging
3) 12 volt power for the battery heater
4) 12 volt power for BMS
5) CAN communication from the Tesla battery

Shoot me an email if you think this might interest you. I have only about 10 people on my existing list.

 

[jimbo69ny]

I am very interested. I have always loved the idea of an additional or larger battery pack. Price is always a factor for me though and $12,500 is too high for me unfortunately. Id be very interested if the price comes down though.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I am very interested. I have always loved the idea of an additional or larger battery pack. Price is always a factor for me though and $12,500 is too high for me unfortunately. Id be very interested if the price comes down though.

Oh, I'm sure the price will always come done for batteries, but for "custom battery packs", the labor and design work won't get cheaper.

We can probably make it half size, too. 10kWh for around $6500.

 

[ppartekim]

I am interested and like the idea of a longer range RAV4 too. I already have the JdeMo installed and as higher amp chargers become more plentiful, charging times will fall too. Like the others price is a factor. Since I only drive for Uber/Lyft part-time (15hrs wk max and not every week) it would probably take close to a year to repay the $12K investment from my Rideshare income. Also, the EV space is quickly becoming more competitive from the major car brands. If some one brings out another reasonably priced SUV EV it would present another choice of new tech vs older extended tech.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Looking at $12,000 as purely a business investment, the battery has value after it is paid for. The car has higher resale value.

If you racked up hundreds of thousands of miles, and decided to junk your car (or use it as a parts machine), the battery can be put into a used, lower mileage 2012-2014 RAV4 EV. Or sold.

So, the business cost isn't the sale price. It is an asset with value that you must depreciate.

It looks like Hyundai may come out with a RAV4 EV competitor, but you won't be able to buy that for the cost of a well equipped used RAV4.

Also, considering a fleet, eventually the car(s) need body work. There are MILLIONS of 2006-2012 Rav4s sitting in junk yards with low cost body panels. It's a simple car.

The same won't be true of a new design car. I can tell you that the repair cost to hit a deer with my aluminum (and somewhat rare) Tesla Model S was $34,000. The same damage on a RAV4 would have cost half or less to repair. I think I could have replaced all the panels and doors dented for about $2000. Plus paint.

Anyhoo, the rare RAV4 EV has been discovered for taxi service. I had a guy call me about a fleet of them going to Africa.

 

[fromport]

So, 3400 cells would be a HUGE increase in density... about 33%.
It's entirely possible that 20kWh usable / 22kWh can be placed under the rear third row seat storage area.

How about the weight you add to the car with the extra battery pack ?
All those uber/lyft drivers take in passengers and cargo.
I assume you would need to compensate for the extra battery weight with improved suspenstion of some kind ?

 

[user 340]

Anyhoo, the rare RAV4 EV has been discovered for taxi service. I had a guy call me about a fleet of them going to Africa.

I'd like to see Kevin Spillane's face when he gets his first call about fixing cars in Africa... :lol:

 

[TonyWilliams]

So, 3400 cells would be a HUGE increase in density... about 33%.
It's entirely possible that 20kWh usable / 22kWh can be placed under the rear third row seat storage area.

How about the weight you add to the car with the extra battery pack ?
All those uber/lyft drivers take in passengers and cargo.
I assume you would need to compensate for the extra battery weight with improved suspenstion of some kind ?

Yes, that was discussed on this thread previously. I suspect new springs may be required.

 

[ppartekim]

Were upgraded springs and installation included in the $12K cost estimate?

 

[jimbo69ny]

Anyhoo, the rare RAV4 EV has been discovered for taxi service. I had a guy call me about a fleet of them going to Africa.

I'd like to see Kevin Spillane's face when he gets his first call about fixing cars in Africa... :lol:

Hahaha

 

[sminx]

Is there an ETA for this new battery product?

 

[Promedic]

There is a company in Austria, they build a much more efficent traction battery with the good old 18650 cells:
"The Kreisel brothers created a lithium ion battery weighing 9 lbs per kWh. Tesla Model S has a battery that weighs 16 lbs per kWh."
http://www.kreiselelectric.com/en/technology/battery-system/
If I would need a new battery or a better battery I would ask them.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Were upgraded springs and installation included in the $12K cost estimate?

1) I don't know that it will require different springs

2) If it does require different rear springs, springs are cheap and easy to replace

3) Its entirely likely that any change to the rear suspension can be done with a simple spacer

4) The cost of any of the above is not included in the estimate

 

[TonyWilliams]

Is there an ETA for this new battery product?

Next year.

 

[TonyWilliams]

There is a company in Austria, they build a much more efficent traction battery with the good old 18650 cells:
"The Kreisel brothers created a lithium ion battery weighing 9 lbs per kWh. Tesla Model S has a battery that weighs 16 lbs per kWh."
http://www.kreiselelectric.com/en/technology/battery-system/
If I would need a new battery or a better battery I would ask them.

So, their "data" would lead one to believe they have a secret source of 16/9 more energy dense cells that ANBODY ELSE in the entire world has access to, including Tesla.

Tesla is using 3400mah (which is what we propose). Any battery that has 16/9 more density would require cells at 6000mah.

That, quite frankly, doesn't exist. Not even close.

Smoke and mirrors, folks. Here's a review of "the best" 18650 cells:

https://reactual.com/outdoor-equipment-2/power-sources/best-18650-batteries-2016.html

 

[ppartekim]

I would be way more interested in getting more RAV4 batteries if there was a way to use them in a V2H solution as well. Otherwise, it would be this or a couple of Powerwalls for the house.