Leviton 40amp charging station?..

[Philly RAV4 EV]

I purchased a leviton 40 amp station and I was making it a permanent hard wired installation. I opened up the unit and looked at the charging cable and the internal wiring. The charging cable is 6 guage wire capable of handling 50 amps, it is connected to 10 guage internal wiring of the unit which is only capable of handling only 30 amps max. Leviton is not rating this unit properly, I would estimate it at 30 or 32 amps max! I hooked it up to a 30amp breaker to test this and it popped after 20 minutes. If it was truly pulling 40 amps, it would have popped the 30 amp breaker instantly. Did anyone else experience this?



I also used 20 ft. of 10 guage 2 conductor wire connected to the 30 amp breaker, the wire got warm but did not overheat. and that was with 4 hours of charging use.

 

[amped up]

I am no EE, but 10A should be more than enough if the distance is extremely short (which it should be if it's internal use only). Yet another potential Q&A problem post about a Leviton EVSE tho, very disappointing, hope this is just a misunderstanding or something, all these EVSE growing pains don't help the EV industry.

 

[Vach]

What makes the special Rav4 Leviton charger "special" anyway? I was considering getting the GE Wattstation unless this one is significantly better.

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
It has a 40 amp max output vs. 30 amps that others typically support == fast charging.

As for Wattstation, if you ever intend to get a Nissan Leaf or charge one with it, I'd steer clear of it.

 

[Vach]

Yea I'm aware of the issues with the leaf, I don't plan on getting one.

Ah, I see. That would be good... but according to the OP it's not exactly 40?

How much faster charging we talking here?

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
A little Google-fu for site:toyota.com rav4 ev charging times 240 volts turned up a PDF. It seems you can download it via http://toyotanewsroom.com/releases/2012+toyota+rav4+ev+product+specs.download.

 

[khaliss]

here's a nice FUTURE-PROOF charger:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Clipper-Creek-CS-100-Charging-Station-SAE-J1772-/271204401153?pt=Battery_Chargers&hash=item3f250ac001&vxp=mtr

 

[TeCKis300]

What makes the special Rav4 Leviton charger "special" anyway? I was considering getting the GE Wattstation unless this one is significantly better.

Don't get the GE. I have a friend who works in the GE EVSE team and they have confirmed it to have compatibility issues with the RAV4.

 

[TonyWilliams]

What makes the special Rav4 Leviton charger "special" anyway?

Toyota makes money on it that they wouldn't make if you bought the same unit from Home Depot or if you bought a 40 amp Clipper Creek.

 

[miimura]

I purchased a leviton 40 amp station and I was making it a permanent hard wired installation. I opened up the unit and looked at the charging cable and the internal wiring. The charging cable is 6 guage wire capable of handling 50 amps, it is connected to 10 guage internal wiring of the unit which is only capable of handling only 30 amps max. Leviton is not rating this unit properly, I would estimate it at 30 or 32 amps max! I hooked it up to a 30amp breaker to test this and it popped after 20 minutes. If it was truly pulling 40 amps, it would have popped the 30 amp breaker instantly. Did anyone else experience this?

I don't know why your breaker didn't pop instantly. I have the EVB40 and it really does pull 40 amps when charging my RAV4 EV. My SmartMeter shows my whole-house usage going up from 600W at 3:30am to 10,160W at 4:15am during charging. Also, as stated earlier, a short piece of 10 gauge wire is not going to hurt anything, especially if it has teflon insulation or other higher temperature treatment. By code, 8 gauge can be used for intermittent 50 amp service or continuous 40 amp service with up to 3 conductors in a cable or conduit together. A single, non-bundled wire will dissipate more heat than one bundled with others also carrying current.

 

[fooljoe]

Breakers don't instantly pop if any current higher than their rating is passed through them; they take a certain amount of time to pop that is a function of the multiple of rated current. Here's an example of such a plot. Looking at this, 20 minutes for a 40a load to pop a 30a breaker seems perfectly reasonable.

 

[miimura]

Breakers don't instantly pop if any current higher than their rating is passed through them; they take a certain amount of time to pop that is a function of the multiple of rated current. Here's an example of such a plot. Looking at this, 20 minutes for a 40a load to pop a 30a breaker seems perfectly reasonable.

Nice chart from SquareD. My reading is that 33% overload should trip in 2-10 minutes.

 

[Vach]

Thanks for the chart. Very helpful.

What makes the special Rav4 Leviton charger "special" anyway? I was considering getting the GE Wattstation unless this one is significantly better.

Don't get the GE. I have a friend who works in the GE EVSE team and they have confirmed it to have compatibility issues with the RAV4.

Thanks! Good to know. For reasons I'd rather not get into, I'd prefer 30A. Anyone know a good one that will be compatible with the RAV?

Also, I thought the special 9.6k RAV4 unit couldn't be bought anywhere but from Leviton?

 

[Philly RAV4 EV]

I purchased a leviton 40 amp station and I was making it a permanent hard wired installation. I opened up the unit and looked at the charging cable and the internal wiring. The charging cable is 6 guage wire capable of handling 50 amps, it is connected to 10 guage internal wiring of the unit which is only capable of handling only 30 amps max. Leviton is not rating this unit properly, I would estimate it at 30 or 32 amps max! I hooked it up to a 30amp breaker to test this and it popped after 20 minutes. If it was truly pulling 40 amps, it would have popped the 30 amp breaker instantly. Did anyone else experience this?

I also used 20 ft. of 10 guage 2 conductor wire connected to the 30 amp breaker, the wire got warm but did not overheat. and that was with 4 hours of charging use.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Thanks! Good to know. For reasons I'd rather not get into, I'd prefer 30A. Anyone know a good one that will be compatible with the RAV?

Also, I thought the special 9.6k RAV4 unit couldn't be bought anywhere but from Leviton?

There is a whole thread on the very few EVSE's that aren't compatible. There are a zillion 30 amp choices; I like the AeroVironment one that plugs in the wall. It is both a wall mount and portable.

Click here for Amazon link

- 208VAC to 240VAC (won't work on 120 volts, but you have one of those in the trunk)
- 30A output maximum current
- 60/50Hz
- 10 pounds excluding cable
- Generous 25' cable length
- Regulatory: UL, cUL listed Indoors
Brand: AeroVironment
Item Weight: 10 pounds excluding cables
Product Dimensions: 12 x 8 x 12 inches
Item model number: 21330-025

The only change I would make is to remove the NEMA 6-50 plug, and install the NEMA 14-50P. Also, when you wire the house, put in a 14-50 receptacle instead of a 6-50.

When the plug is installed, leave off the neutral pin (it's not used for 208-240 volt). Now it can be plugged into every RV park in the country with "50 amp service" (don't ask for 14-50 or 208-240 volts at the RV park, because they won't normally know what you're talking about). Plus, it will physically plug into every newer house dryer outlet, however the likelihood of popping a breaker is high at 30 amps continuous. You might carry a spare 40 amp breaker for such "emergencies" (advanced user only).

The "Rav4 unit" can only be purchased from Leviton, but the EXACT same 40 amp unit can be bought from Home Depot for less money (but Toyota doesn't make any money in their marketing scheme). Your choice. The other logical 40 to 80 amp choice is Clipper Creek.

 

[Vach]

Thanks for all the information! I'm relatively new at all this, but I'm learning a lot so hopefully I'll be able to get everything I need done before delivery in a couple weeks.

Couple questions if you don't mind:
What's the difference between the NEMA 6-50 and 14-50? And what is the neutral pin?
By mentioning the breaker, are you saying 40 amps is less likely to flip the breaker?
How long is the cord from the unit to the wall, not the car?

All this assuming you own one, if you don't I apologize.

Also sorry for hijacking a thread.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Thanks for all the information! I'm relatively new at all this, but I'm learning a lot so hopefully I'll be able to get everything I need done before delivery in a couple weeks.

Couple questions if you don't mind:
What's the difference between the NEMA 6-50 and 14-50? And what is the neutral pin?
By mentioning the breaker, are you saying 40 amps is less likely to flip the breaker?
How long is the cord from the unit to the wall, not the car?

All this assuming you own one, if you don't I apologize.

Also sorry for hijacking a thread.

Not sure what you're asking if I own... the AeroVironment unit? No, I don't own one, but the reputation is quite good.

The 14-50 has 4 pins; one ground (earth), one neutral, and two power pins
The 6-50 has 3 pins; one ground (earth), and two power pins.

They are not interchangeable with each other. A neutral pin is so that the 14-50 can be used to power motorhomes at 120 volts -AND/OR- 240 volts. That's why we don't need neutral to power at 240 volts only. Yes, you could put an adapter on a 14-50 receptacle and power something at 120 volts.

Continuous loads on a breaker must be only 80% of the breaker rating, so pulling 30 amps on a dryer outlet with a 30 amp breaker will probably pop it sooner than later. That's why I suggest a 40 amp breaker in your bag of tricks, but then you could overheat the wiring in the wall and burn down the house killing everybody in the neighborhood, therefore it is for "advanced users" with adequate knowledge of the dangers and will monitor the situation.

 

[miimura]

For reasons I'd rather not get into, I'd prefer 30A. Anyone know a good one that will be compatible with the RAV?

Also, I thought the special 9.6k RAV4 unit couldn't be bought anywhere but from Leviton?

The supply of the "special" Leviton 40 amp unit has expanded in 2013. They are now available from Amazon and HomeDepot.com as well as others. Leviton also makes 32 amp and 30 amp units. The 30 amp unit, EVB45-3PT is currently available from Amazon for $849.00 ...LINK...

Edit: That unit only has a 18 foot cord to the car. The EVB32 (32 amp) is available in a version with a 25 foot cord, if that's important to you. You should also get the "Pre-Wire" kit EVK05-M. The important bits are the wall bracket and the outlet cover. A in-wall junction box and NEMA 6-50 receptacle are also included.

 

[Vach]

Thanks again for all the info. It really helps!

As much as I tried, this seems to be out of my range of expertise. I don't want any kind of safety risk, even slight, so I will more than likely go for something installed by whatever an electrician recommends.

Thanks for the link miimura, I was having trouble finding that one for some reason. I'll blame windows 8!

 

[miimura]

Thanks again for all the info. It really helps!

As much as I tried, this seems to be out of my range of expertise. I don't want any kind of safety risk, even slight, so I will more than likely go for something installed by whatever an electrician recommends.

Thanks for the link miimura, I was having trouble finding that one for some reason. I'll blame windows 8!

By the way, Home Depot is selling the same 30 amp unit for the same $849.00 and they include the "pre-wire kit" for free. HERE Amazon charges an additional $89.99 for the install kit.