I got myself a Juicebox 60a

[EnerGene]

I just had an electrician wire me a 14-60r socket in my garage to my service panel and measured 240vac.
I plugged in the Juicebox 60A I bought from someone who had it for his Nissan Leaf.
Not sure why he bought such a high power EVSE but since he sold his Leaf, I bought it from him.

I plugged it in and it says it's charging. My pack had the top 4 bars consumed and the car says it will take 4hrs to charge. That seems slow to me for an EVSE rated at 60A 240V. Thats only about 6 miles per hr or about 3KW?.......boooooooo.

Is it because the pack is at about 75% SOC and the point of tapering?

What is the actual max charge rate of my Rav4 EV? What do you guys average?
I thought it was 10KW and even at a deratted value at least 8KW.

Thanks

 

[n3ckf]

the car can't use more than 10KW to charge. This is limited by the charger onboard in the car. You're getting the same time i get (4 hours + a few minutes for a "regular charge") that i do here in my house in the mountains, where i have the 40Amp Leviton (on a 50A circuit).

If you want to charge faster, you need 400Volts and a lot of amps available and a DC Fast charger. (good luck getting service for that at a residential address).

By the way the car really does consume 10KW, i have metering becuase i have solar and i see it jump up to that (its the largest electrical load i have, by a lot).

No idea why your car would take that long to charge when it was already full though. Tapering doesnt happen until you go beyond 85% (basically 16 bars on the GOM). At least it doesnt on my car.

 

[n3ckf]

oh i get it.

you said the guy had a LEAF.

original (early) leafs (leaves?) come with a 3.3KW onboard charger. The 6.6KW charger was an *option*.
I bet your charger was programmed by the original owner to charge at that rate.

(Normally, EVSEs will detect what rate the car wants and charge at that rate. However... its also possible to limit the choices on the EVSE (house) side (basically hardwire the EVSE to only generate certain rates). You do that, if you have the EVSE on a circuit that wont support the higher rates (like for instance, a 30A dryer circuit, which you can only charge at 24Amps from).

You can probably change that in firmware, switches, or with the front panel.

 

[EnerGene]

This Juicebox, like the others doesn't have any monitoring indicators. I'm going to rig one on it tomorrow and take my pack down by 16 bars and monitor it's charge rate.

I was expecting at least 6.6KW charge rate.
:?

 

[EnerGene]

oh i get it.

you said the guy had a LEAF.

You can probably change that in firmware, switches, or with the front panel.

OK thanks.
I found this documentation and it states theres a trim pot to adjust......
http://www.google.com/url?q=http://...ggNMAE&usg=AFQjCNHRiQ1cbhet6LN3niAwFJ9HOC_ehg

I'm going to rig my ammeter on it first then rad more on how to adjust it.

Thanks

 

[n3ckf]

This Juicebox, like the others doesn't have any monitoring indicators. I'm going to rig one on it tomorrow and take my pack down by 16 bars and monitor it's charge rate.

I was expecting at least 6.6KW charge rate.
:?

The assembly manual ishere

It says the max charge rate is user selectable.
(See appendix D)

 

[fromport]

(Normally, EVSEs will detect what rate the car wants and charge at that rate.

It is the other way round
an EVSE is an intelligent extension cable that tells the charger in the car how much power it max is allowed to draw.
Like you suggested, it is probably limited to the breaker value the previous owner had.
Based on it being a leaf, it was never maximized.
By adjusting the setting it should be able to tell the rav4ev charger to eat all 40 amps at 240 volt

 

[TonyWilliams]

I don't know exactly how your product is supposed to be programmed, but make sure that the pilot signal will not exceed 48 amps on a 60 amp circuit breaker.

Never allow the pilot signal to exceed 80% of the circuit breaker.

THIS SETTING HAS ABSOLUTLEY NOTHING TO DO WITH WHAT VEHICLE MIGHT BE CHARGED!!!


*********


12 amps is 80% of a 15 amp circuit, as is the following:
16 / 20
24 / 30
32 / 40
40 / 50
48 / 60
56 / 70
64 / 80
72 / 90
80 / 100

So, the charge amps for each car is maximum for these cars:

16 amps or less:

Nissan LEAF (2011-2012), Chevy Volt, Chevy Spark EV, Toyota Prius Plug-In, Ford C-Max Energy, Ford Fusion Energy, ZERO motorcycle (2015 and newer with J1772), Brammo motorcycle, Smart Electric Drive, Ford C-Max Energi, Karma Fisker, Mitsubishi iMiev, Cadillac ELR, Porshe Cayenne S-E, Porsche Panamera S-E, Honda Accord Plug-In.

30 amps:

Nissan LEAF (2013 and newer at 28 amps, however some are 16 amps), VW eGolf, Kia Soul EV, BMW i3 and i8, Ford Focus Electric, Fiat 500e, Honda Fit EV, Fiat 500e.

40 amps:

Tesla Model S, plus the following two Tesla powered cars; Mercedes B-Class ED and 2012-2014 Toyota RAV4 EV

48 amps:

Tesla Model S, model year 2016 and newer
Tesla Model X
Tesla Model 3

70 amps:

Tesla Roadster (requires firmware update to use any charge station over 70 amps)

72 amps:

Tesla Model X and Model 3 with optional 72 amp charger

80 amps:

Tesla Model S with optional "twin chargers" (2012-2015)

 

[EnerGene]

From the PCB inside, it looks like R10 is my goto variable resistor for the adjustment.
I haven't tweked it yet. Hopefully I'll have time today.

Does anyone have experience on this model EVSE? If I were to guess, it's one of the first they came out with at the 60A rate about 2-3 years ago?

Thanks

 

[GlennD]

If you are near Disneyland I will loan you a pilot analyzer so you can set the pilot accurately. The JuiceBox has a special setting for 30A without tools. If the PCB sees the pot at zero ohms it will set itself to 30A. This covers all non Tesla covered cars. It will also charge your car at a reduced level. For the RAV EV to charge at 40A then you need something to measure it with. It does not matter that the EVSE can supply 60A. The car will take what it needs and ignore the rest. The only thing 60A gets you is that much heaver wire and a bigger breaker is needed.

For 40A you need #6 L wires and a 50A breaker. As Tony stated an EVSE is considered a continuous load and the circuit needs to be derated per the NEC.

I charge my Mercedes B at 40A with #6 L wires and #8 neutral and ground wires. It is protected with a 50A breaker. 40A is 80% of 50A.

 

[fooljoe]

There are two things at play here: First is you've got to figure out what the Juicebox's pilot is set to, and it looks like you're well on your way there.

Second is the car's built-in time-to-charge estimator is notoriously terrible - if it says it'll take 4 hours to charge it'll more likely take half that. RavCharge can accurately gauge your time to charge and tell you at what rate you're currently charging with no need for any extra hardware, if you want to give it a try.

By the way, I haven't observed any tapering during a normal charge; it's only in the last 15-30 minutes or so of an extended charge.

Oh, and one more thing (SAFETY WARNING) - since the JuiceBox is a "kit" EVSE you need to make sure everything's sized appropriately for 40+ amps, beyond just setting the pilot. Most notable is the cord and connector from EVSE to car - since 40+ amp versions of those were pretty rare a few years ago it's quite possible that it's only rated to 30 amps even if the components inside the box are "60 amp". Also I recall at the time that there was some healthy skepticism about that 60 amp claim.

Whatever you do, the first few times you get it going at full power make sure to monitor the charge every 15 minutes or so and check all connections for heat build-up. An infrared thermometer is nice for this.

 

[EnerGene]

If you are near Disneyland I will loan you a pilot analyzer so you can set the pilot accurately. The JuiceBox has a special setting for 30A without tools. If the PCB sees the pot at zero ohms it will set itself to 30A. This covers all non Tesla covered cars. It will also charge your car at a reduced level. For the RAV EV to charge at 40A then you need something to measure it with. It does not matter that the EVSE can supply 60A. The car will take what it needs and ignore the rest. The only thing 60A gets you is that much heaver wire and a bigger breaker is needed.

For 40A you need #6 L wires and a 50A breaker. As Tony stated an EVSE is considered a continuous load and the circuit needs to be derated per the NEC.

I charge my Mercedes B at 40A with #6 L wires and #8 neutral and ground wires. It is protected with a 50A breaker. 40A is 80% of 50A.

I am pretty sure it is set to a reduced level of 240vac @ 13-16A but have not checked it yet.
I appreciate the offer of the analyzer but I am up north in Elk Grove just south of Sacramento.

I had the Electricians install a 14-60r in my garage with a new breaker of 60A. I should be good even derated to 80%.

Thanks

 

[EnerGene]

...since the JuiceBox is a "kit" EVSE you need to make sure everything's sized appropriately for 40+ amps, beyond just setting the pilot. Most notable is the cord and connector from EVSE to car - since 40+ amp versions of those were pretty rare a few years ago it's quite possible that it's only rated to 30 amps even if the components inside the box are "60 amp".

Therin lies my second problem......lol

I confirmed with Emotorwerks via email and pics and verified the J1772 and it's cable is rated at only 30A.
They also indicated and verified that the R10 variable pot is where I need to adjust the charge current rate.

So Now maybe GlennD has a 24+ foot 50A rated J1772 cable set for sale?

 

[fooljoe]

Actually come to think of it I could deduce your pilot with fairly good accuracy using the algorithms I developed in RavCharge just based off of how long the car thinks it will take to complete a charge. Here's the procedure:

1. If your car is currently set to charge immediately, switch it to departure timer mode and make sure the departure time is far enough away so charging doesn't start as soon as you plug in (give it a LOT of time - if the pilot is set to 20 amps or less the car will assume you're using the trickle charge cable)
2. Plug the car in, THEN turn off the car - note the estimate that shows up on the dash display of when charging will start and complete
3. Record your state of charge - you need RavCharge for this as the car only gives you bars, but RavCharge can extract your charge as a percentage. Sign up for a free trial or if you already did but it expired let me know and I can reactivate it for you.

Using that data I can reverse engineer the math that the car performs to determine when to start charging. RavCharge has a feature called "early charge protection" (ECP) that does this process automatically to make sure the car doesn't start charges earlier than you want it to.

 

[fooljoe]

So Now maybe GlennD has a 24+ foot 50A rated J1772 cable set for sale?

Tony at QuickChargePower has such cables for sale: http://shop.quickchargepower.com/J-Plug-J1772-40-Amp-Plug-Cable-Assembly-JPC40A.htm;jsessionid=CCFEB415C0E9ADB269A1BC269CDCBF7C.p3plqscsfapp006

They're also available (same ones) from the OpenEVSE store: https://store.openevse.com/collections/frontpage/products/j1772-cable-40a-ultra-flexible-us-only

They're 40 amp, not 50, but that's all you need to max out the Rav's capability (make sure the pilot isn't set higher than 40A though).

Of course if you decide to just "slum it" at 30 amps it really won't be all that bad, although I'm sure that doesn't make you feel good about your EVSE purchase! You should complain to that Leaf owner you bought it from that he was falsely advertising if he knew it had a 30 amp J-cable.

 

[davewill]

I always thought that using a pot was a dumb idea. Unless you have an oscilloscope or specialized HW to read out the pilot setting like Glenn has, you can't set it. Jumpers or a rotary switch makes so much more sense. Anyway, given the info here, I'd just set it for 30a and be done with it. Otherwise, I'd see if the JuiceBox folks can reconfigure it for you.

 

[GlennD]

I always thought that using a pot was a dumb idea. Unless you have an oscilloscope or specialized HW to read out the pilot setting like Glenn has, you can't set it. Jumpers or a rotary switch makes so much more sense. Anyway, given the info here, I'd just set it for 30a and be done with it. Otherwise, I'd see if the JuiceBox folks can reconfigure it for you.

That is what I like about OpenEVSE. The pilot is set from the setup menu in 2A steps. In one of the two basic JuiceBox units that I built I used one of Nick's display units to allow easy setting of the pot.

Nick Sayer designed the analyzer I use. I think he now has surface mount version integrated into the display. I am quite happy with his early pre surface mount version. At least if it fails it can be repaired. I do not think the circuit has changed. Just smaller with throw away surface mount.

 

[EnerGene]

I finally got the time to install the amp meter. It looks like the juicbox is only charging at 15A at 240vac.
So I followed the instructions in the docs and the emails emotorwerks sent me but no change no matter where the R10 pot was positioned. Damn thing!!
It has to be the juicebox either locked in at that rate or it's just jacked up because when I charge at work it charges at 6.6KW.
:evil:
I think I'll just buy a new one.........a different one.

 

[fooljoe]

That is odd - I would follow-up with EMW to make sure you're not just doing something wrong. If you can connect to it via FTDI you could probably know for sure. Worst case you could just replace the logic board with an openEVSE board (might need a new power supply too but they're probably both 12v.) Well this is turning into a fun project at least, eh?

 

[fromport]

Worst case you could just replace the logic board with an openEVSE board (might need a new power supply too but they're probably both 12v.) Well this is turning into a fun project at least, eh?

OpenEvse has build in PSU (onboard) (100-240 volt input)

http://openevse.com/