Errors After Inverter control board replacement and problems with re-flash.

[Arlin]

The white RAV4 I purchased recently from Richard has notable geartrain noise, different from my blue RAV4 that I've owned since 2017, and Richard -- who owned the white one since new -- says his made that noise since Day 1 as well. It seems some units were always noisier than others?

--
Two years ago, his LDU motor was "rebuilt" by QCC, including a "seal/bearing kit", which probably did not include the pinion bearings, but there's no way for me to know. Since "motor" is listed, I presume they only did a reseal on the gearbox. It's good practice to replace at least both pinion bearings -- in addition to the two rotor bearings -- if you've got it apart, as they run at the same speed as the rotor but with the hybrid rotor bearings they are now the ground path for stray induced rotor currents.

View attachment 913

That "motor rebuild" price does reflect the four-line drain kit that they installed as well (though it's also not listed in that receipt).

It was a kit from Quickcharge. But both rotor bearings were replaced as well as the next 4 in the gear case the only 2 that were not replaced were the 2 on the diff which do spin at a MUCH slower speed.

 

[Arlin]

vs.

vs. all bearings of RSV4EV Motor Asembly (there are 7 of them):
https://alflash.com.ua/2019/to_rav4ev/bearings_seals.jpg
?
Condition of the rotor spline end?
(photo).
Under what driving conditions is the noise heard?
Can we listen to a recording of it?

Yeah it might have been 7. the Reason I messed up the control board was I didn't pop the housing cover back on the inverter side while fighting the 1 bearing in the intermediate shaft in the gear case. SO its likely 7. I have had quite the year so my memory is down a bit.

 

[Arlin]

Im thinking about making something like this. I have lots of starters I can rob brushes from at work.

 

[alflash]

Im thinking about making something like this. I have lots of starters I can rob brushes from at work. View attachment 916

Excuse me, but three questions.

1. Why???
2. Especially why, if from the right wheel side?
3. What problem do you want to solve by installing this brush?

 

[Arlin]

Excuse me, but three questions.

1. Why???
2. Especially why, if from the right wheel side?
3. What problem do you want to solve by installing this brush?

The noise and the arcing in the bearings.

 

[alflash]

The noise and the arcing in the bearings.

Ok. Let's repeat it again.

1. Since hybrid bearings use ceramic balls, they are much less susceptible to electrical erosion.​

2. The brush was always installed on the gearbox side to protect the input shaft bearing.​

3. Electrical erosion may not appear until many tens of thousands of miles. And I am sure that by that time the SOH value will make using this car pointless.​

4. Installing a homemade brush will NOT eliminate the extraneous sounds that are present now.
​

Conclusions.
Installing a brush is

- useless,​

- very labor-intensive,​

- and as a result, is a waste of time and effort.
​

Dear Arlin, please do me a favor and spend 2 minutes of your time watching this video (until the end)

It contains actual illustrations of what I was trying to write.
Best Regards,

 

[Arlin]

Ok. Let's repeat it again.

1. Since hybrid bearings use ceramic balls, they are much less susceptible to electrical erosion.​

2. The brush was always installed on the gearbox side to protect the input shaft bearing.​

3. Electrical erosion may not appear until many tens of thousands of miles. And I am sure that by that time the SOH value will make using this car pointless.​

4. Installing a homemade brush will NOT eliminate the extraneous sounds that are present now.​

​

Conclusions.
Installing a brush is

- useless,​

- very labor-intensive,​

- and as a result, is a waste of time and effort.​

​

Dear Arlin, please do me a favor and spend 2 minutes of your time watching this video (until the end)

It contains actual illustrations of what I was trying to write.
Best Regards,

Ok hold on. You seem to be missing something.
What causes the sound? 1 could be bad bearings. 2 could be the currents traveling though the bearings. IN my case with all new bearings OTHER THAN the 2 diff bearings I had the noise instantly. But the noise is not there when coasting. Its only there when current is flowing in or out of the motor. IE when the rotor has currents flowing thought it.

Its important to point out I have developed HIGH POWER 3 phase motor controllers and have done extensive R&D in this field. I am not some NEWB.

The current (when I push the go peddle) makes noise. When there is no current, IE. coasting or shifting to neutral then coasting, the noise is gone. With NEW bearings.

There is NO brush in this motor it was toast and when I changed the seals and bearings it got tossed because it was toast.

All companies have something to conduct the energy in the rotor to ground. Using Ceramic bearings doesn't stop it, Ceramic bearings only move the problem somewhere else.

What I am doing is easy and only requires the coolant plate I welded up to be removed and this solution would only take ~ 1hr to implement and can be done in the car.

AND YES I have watched the video. That does not apply to me. I HAVE NEW BEARINGS and the NOISE ONLY HAPPENS WITH CURRENT FLOWING.

 

[alflash]

...
AND YES I have watched the video. That does not apply to me. I HAVE NEW BEARINGS and the NOISE ONLY HAPPENS WITH CURRENT FLOWING.

So when current flows, the mechanical parts of the motor start moving, starting from the rotor and all the way to the wheels! Or you hear extraneous sounds when you press the accelerator slightly when the car is stationary. for example, with the handbrake activated and the front wheel "stoppers" installed)?

Ok, I will not dissuade you. Install the brush and as the saying goes, "practice is the criterion of truth." That is, we will be able to find out what is the actual cause of the extraneous sound: the flow of 3-phase electric current of variable frequency and amplitude through the stator windings or some "mechanical" reason.
Notes.
1. I did not evaluate your knowledge in the field of electric drives.
2. There is no sound recording of these extraneous sounds when the car is moving (under load).
3. There is no sound recording of these extraneous sounds when the car wheels are rotating (without load), when it is raised on a lift*.
4. The approximate location of the source of extraneous sounds has not been localized.

Conclusions. Therefore, I have no way to answer the question about their causes. I only dispute the effectiveness / benefit of installing that single brush on the right side of the rotor. It was It would be correct to compare the soundtracks BEFORE and AFTER installing the additional brush.
As examples,






I will be glad to know that the additional brush installed (on the FR side of the wheel) will eliminate this extraneous sound in your vehicle.
Good luck!

 

[alflash]

... All companies have something to conduct the energy in the rotor to ground. Using Ceramic bearings doesn't stop it, Ceramic bearings only move the problem somewhere else.
...

p s. Question: Were the parts/bearings that were replaced returned to you?

 

[Arlin]

p s. Question: Were the parts/bearings that were replaced returned to you?

I did the job myself. My friend Doug lent me his Raf 4 for as long as I need. He provided me with the bearing kid from QC to do the repair.

 

[alflash]

I did the job myself. My friend Doug lent me his Raf 4 for as long as I need. He provided me with the bearing kid from QC to do the repair.

Ok,
...At the same time it would be interesting to hear and see the condition of these bearings (especially the hybrid and input shaft) during a simple bench test. Their noise level when rotating in the hands without load. Something like what is shown at 20 second of that video from my previous post....