Considering swap for BMW i3 Rex

[bruin nut]

My lease is up a a few months and I'm considering getting the BMW i3 Rex. I test drove it yesterday. Besides getting used to the aggressive regen braking (it's like permanent "B" mode) it was very fun to drive. It has great pickup and the car is clearly purpose built.

One big advantage is since the car still qualifies for the $7500 federal tax credit (to title holders only), they slap that amount on the roof for the lease, discount another 7k from MSRP, and you've got a 50k + car for about 350 per month with minimal driveoffs. It also qualifies for 2500 CARB rebate.

So, the numbers make sense. But I'd like to hear from anyone who might have more expertise. I'm thinking of doing an extended test drive.

 

[Luckyduckie]

My sister got it in Oct. She's happy with it.

I've driven it and it performs well enough.

Pros:
Better handling vs. Rav4EV
Nicer seats (Rav4 seats are the worst when compared to every car I've ever owned period!!!)
DCFC

Cons:
Back seat and door access (hassle for daily pick up/drop off kids etc.; deal breaker for me, but if you seldom have passengers then maybe you don't care)
Irregular sized tires plus different front & back tire = added expenses for tires ( if you don't put too many miles on the car, you might not care)
Shorter range vs. Rav4, but you could get the REX with DCFC

Neutral:
Distinctive looks ... you either love it or you hate it!
It's a BMW ... They used to make really good cars that you drive for 15-20 years, but just like Lexus and Mercedes, they now make cars that "break" just after the warranty expires so they can get added profits ( I wouldn't keep any new BMW, Mercedes, Lexus past 5 years ... unless you don't mind paying $1000-$2000 per year for repairs).

 

[cwerdna]

I'd advise against it, unless you have time for a new hobby in the event your i3 REx ends up being one of the unreliable ones and requires many trips to the dealer for repairs.

Join https://www.facebook.com/groups/BMWi3/ and watch for a few weeks. You'll see what I mean.

Also, numerous folks have had their 1st i3 bought back under lemon law.

See my posts at:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=421713#p421713
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=446102#p446102
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=446184#p446184

The BEV version seems more reliable, esp. since it doesn't have an engine and thus can't get a dreaded CEL (check engine light), which is EXTREMELY common.

they now make cars that "break" just after the warranty expires so they can get added profits (

The i3 REx is real good at breaking down a lot within the warranty, even within a year or two.

It is interesting that some folks w/i3s claim to have minimal or no problems. For the BEV version, that's much more plausible. For some w/"no problem" i3 RExes, I suspect a few of them are (BMW fanboy) liars or and some have decided to ignore some problems.

There was one guy on the i3 FB group claimed to have "no dealer visits". He did have one (which I can dismiss, because it was a tire prob e.g. flat tire, so that doesn't really count) but he had a plethora of other problems he himself posted about on that group but decided to not get them fixed, it seems.

Yes, it is very fast (have test driven the BEV version at least 3 or 4x) and it's RWD. The only way I'd EVER want an i3 REx is if it were WAY cheaper than a Leaf, as in virtually free, to compensate for the risk of massive amounts of time wasted + car being out of service. I don't think I could spare the time as my job keeps me quite busy.

 

[4EVEREV]

Buy the RAV and a warranty and wait for a better EV to come along.

 

[michael]

My understanding is the BMW handling is responsive to the point of being skittish. Several people complain about this.

BMW fanboys rave about the aggressive regen braking, but I prefer a blended feel which is very similar to what I have always experienced.

The range extender seems like a valuable asset, never any concern about getting to your destination.

 

[cwerdna]

The range extender seems like a valuable asset, never any concern about getting to your destination.

Indeed, unless it fails on you. Then again, I've seen reports of drivetrain malfunction on both the BEV and REx versions. In some cases, they can continue driving. In others, they can't move or the car loses propulsion on them.

 

[bruin nut]

I still have a little time left on my lease. I'm going to take my time. I really enjoyed the test drive but I agree on the braking regen is annoying. I like to coast on the Rav and that's not possible on the i3. But I must say the responsiveness and speed is great; the torque is much better with rear wheel drive. I honestly think it's a bit unsafe on the Rav to punch it in sport mode.

The big killer right now is the CA DMV has run out of green HOV stickers and won't have another allotment until Sacramento can pass another bill upping the amount. They likely will, but that means anyone who buys the car now will have to wait weeks or months to get HOV (and free fast pass lane access). That's a complete deal killer for me.

Who knows; maybe I'll keep the Rav 4 EV and get an Alfa Romeo 4C!

 

[TonyWilliams]

You will get a white sticker (good until jan 2019) with a BMW i3... if it doesn't have the scooter gasoline engine.

 

[cwerdna]

I honestly think it's a bit unsafe on the Rav to punch it in sport mode.

Yeah, due to the wheel spin and torque steer on the FWD Rav4 EV. Weight transfer to the rear, off the wheels providing propulsion is of no help. If the Rav4 EV were RWD or AWD...

The big killer right now is the CA DMV has run out of green HOV stickers and won't have another allotment until Sacramento can pass another bill upping the amount. They likely will, but that means anyone who buys the car now will have to wait weeks or months to get HOV (and free fast pass lane access). That's a complete deal killer for me.

Yep, for those who haven't been watching, per http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/carpool/carpool.htm
"This page last reviewed December 18, 2015

IMPORTANT NOTICE: The 85,000 statutory Green Clean Air Vehicle Decal limit has been reached. The DMV will continue to accept applications without payment to establish a queue for requesters should an additional amount of decals be authorized. There is no guarantee that additional decals will be authorized in the coming months. Those individuals in the queue will be notified to submit payment if additional decals are approved. Updates will be provided here as more information becomes available."

It's possible they won't up the limit due to issues like these coupled w/no # issued limits on the white stickers:
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/carpool-645240-lanes-lane.html
http://www.cbs8.com/story/28017135/california-hov-lanes-not-moving-fast-enough

 

[bdunst]

I have both an 2015 I3 REX and a 2013 RAV4 EV - two very different vehicles.

I don't think my wife would give up the I3 REX - she has lost all the range anxiety - even though 96% of miles are electric. We have had my I3 6 months and have had ZERO issues. The I3 also has an extensive "coding" capability - many of the things people discuss as issues, are options that can be coded by someone who has programming knowledge - or supplied by third parties. I am a retired techie - so we have taken advantage of this. The biggest negative for me is the tires - in my opinion - poorly chosen and easily punctured. Biggest positives - fast charging and coding capability.

I personally like the RAV 4 EV SUV much more and once I get the Jdemo installed - will pretty much take the RAV anywhere. I am also looking for a second RAV 4EV - for the right price with an extended warranty. The extra range with an extended charge is the best feature. I met a guy this week with a 2002 Rav 4 EV1 who loved that car - still getting 80 miles a charge with only 6K invested in batteries over time. I am hoping I can have the same feeling with my Gen2 in 2025!

We don't have commutes - but carpool access is used frequently - so I would consider the lack of green sticker a big negative for commuters.

We have always been car collectors and restorers - and have 16 ICE vehicles ranging from 73 VW Things(which I might convert to electric) to a 2015 Tahoe. But it seems that 95% of our trips are now in either the RAV4 EV or the I3 REX. Heading to the Sierras this time of year - we are piling in the big ICE SUV.

 

[Michael Bornstein]

For an excellent discussion of the BMW I3, check out this thread:

http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?214689-Why-You-Don’t-Want-a-BMW-I3-Instaed-of-a-Volt!-–-Mike-Mas

The owner of an I3 traded it in on a Volt because of his perceived problems inherent in BMW's design.

 

[cwerdna]

The range extender seems like a valuable asset, never any concern about getting to your destination.

Indeed, unless it fails on you. Then again, I've seen reports of drivetrain malfunction on both the BEV and REx versions. In some cases, they can continue driving. In others, they can't move or the car loses propulsion on them.

And right on cue, on the i3 FB group, one guy w/i3 REx today has a pic showing a drivetrain malfunction that says "Drivetrain

Only electric drive available.
Restricted range.
Possible to continue journey.
Please go straight to the nearest BMW i Service."

In his post, he said this is going to be the 3rd time he needs this fixed.

Another guy on the 17th said his i3 is visiting the dealer again after 1/2 a week due to CEL (check engine light) coming on again. He also mentions his car has spent over 60 days at the dealer, so far. He's requesting a buyback. One of the guys commented that he's been "round and round" and that he got a new EME (it's one of their on-board chargers) and still had CEL problems and requested buyback after 90 days out of service.

Let's see, some other random notable prob reports I came across (not counting tires punctures):
- 12/16: CEL
- 12/14: someone w/a bunch of charging probs (he's a user here)
- 12/17: someone took it their car to get the CEL fixed after it'd been on for over a month
- 12/18: someone hit a "airbag/restraint malfunction" (not the first time I've heard of this)
- 12/18: someone reporting a charging socket lock fault - some people chime in reporting theirs or that of their friends failed too
- 12/11: someone reporting a J1772 handle lock/unlock mechanism failure (he said again... he seems upset as he refers to his car as a POS). Someone on 12/12 replies they had that prob and many more, so their car's going back to BMW (sounds like a buyback).

 

[LastEmp]

Good read from a former I3 owner
http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?214689-Why-You-Don%C2%92t-Want-a-BMW-I3-Instaed-of-a-Volt!-%C2%96-Mike-Mas

I almost bought a I3 w/REX but the undersized REX with lack of hold or mountain mode was a showstopper for me. I waited and got a 2016 Chevy Volt instead (RAV4 EV is still my primary car)

 

[cwerdna]

Good read from a former I3 owner
http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?214689-Why-You-Don%C2%92t-Want-a-BMW-I3-Instaed-of-a-Volt!-%C2%96-Mike-Mas

I almost bought a I3 w/REX but the undersized REX with lack of hold or mountain mode was a showstopper for me. I waited and got a 2016 Chevy Volt instead (RAV4 EV is still my primary car)

The REx is definitely way underpowered but "coding" can apparently get around that, so that you can get the ICE to engage earlier instead of crawling up hills when the battery's out (e.g. below 40 mph on 55+ mph speed highway hill climbs).

And yes, BMW makes some things cost extra that are standard on much cheaper cars like "Comfort Access" which is the equivalent of Nissan Intelligent Key or Toyota Smart Key System.

Still, to me, the biggest probs w/the i3 REx are just its unreliability besides its formerly high cost. Don't know what they're currently going for now in terms of lease/purchase as I don't follow closely.

Oh yeah, on cue, for today (12/23)
- one guy on https://www.facebook.com/groups/BMWi3/ said he got his i3 REx back after the motor mount bolt broke, causing a ton of other damage (which is typical when the bolt breaks, one guy had it happen twice, causing major damage each time). Looks they they replaced an HV cable, v-brace, exhaust heat shield, and both axle shafts. He said he's car's been at the shop for about 30 days total now and mentioned and air bag cable and EME controller replacement, as well. I think that was separate.

- Another guy is complaining about a "service engine soon" message, which to me sounds just like another form of CEL since CEL and SES are often used interchangeably.

- Another guy said he took his car in for a drivetrain error (not sure if I counted him before) and they're ordering a replacement REx engine!

 

[bruin nut]

My flirtation with the i3 Rex is done. I did another test drive and while I still liked it, I can see the limitations. And if I want a car with a "true" range extender, then I'll get a Chevy Volt. The motorcycle engine (and small motorcycle engine at that) in the i3 is just a waste of space and money. And it's borderline dangerous to rely on for anything than a quick ride without electricity. It's like the EV version of a "space-saving spare tire."

I'm keeping the RAV 4 EV at least until my lease is up (next Summer). My new fun car is an Alfa Romeo 4C. And boy is it fun!

 

[GlennD]

I had a 1974 Alfa 2000 GTV. When it ran it was a fun car. It made me late for work on several occasions. No one should own an Italian car without a backup car.

 

[bruin nut]

I had a 1974 Alfa 2000 GTV. When it ran it was a fun car. It made me late for work on several occasions. No one should own an Italian car without a backup car.

I echo that. I had a 1986 Alfa Spider. I loved it and out of necessity it was my daily driver. But it was temperamental. The repairs were expensive and often unanticipated. The standard maintenance was also out of the ordinary: front brake pads every 10k miles; clutch at 50 k, sensors and other electronic items, oil filters and oil triple what any other car would cost. I took it in for a tune up once, expecting it to cost about $150. An O2 sensor and distributor cap later, it was $1200.

But the 4C does have a great warranty and the owners who have them in the first year report very few issues. The car is built very well and Alfa Romeo and is making no money on it to keep interest up and prices low. It's their first foray into the U.S. market for 20 years, and it makes good sense to not bring over a lemon.

 

[miimura]

...it makes good sense to not bring over a lemon.

You say that as if intentions make a difference. That said, of course, this is not 1974 and Alfa deserves to build a new reputation in the US.