Chevy Bolt

[burningmay]

Has anyone here seen one in flesh, taken a test ride etc?

http://www.chevrolet.com/bolt-ev-electric-vehicle.html

MSRP of 38,000 puts it squarely in the Model 3 projected price range. Tesla will certainly make a better product and if priced around the same the choice is easy.

 

[michael]

Yes, I spent a lot of time in and around one at the LA Auto show a few weeks ago, but I haven't driven it.

On the outside, it looks a little bigger than its actual dimensions (similar to a Honda FIT). Inside it is very roomy. The 200+ mile range even at freeway speeds looks for-real. Nobody has yet reported the actual lease deal they got, but it will surely be far less than what we all paid for the Ravs.

I absolutely intend to get one. As one who is waiting for my second motor replacement, I would not assume Tesla will have a better product. I have two Volts and they have both been very good cars and absolutely trouble free. In any event, I expect to have 30,000 miles on my Bolt before I would have any chance of getting hold of a Tesla.

Any questions? I will try to answer if so

 

[fromport]

Has anyone here seen one in flesh, taken a test ride etc?

http://www.chevrolet.com/bolt-ev-electric-vehicle.html

MSRP of 38,000 puts it squarely in the Model 3 projected price range. Tesla will certainly make a better product and if priced around the same the choice is easy.

The first production cars were produced and a couple of days ago the first ones were spotted on the way to the dealers:

http://www.hybridcars.com/chevy-bolts-are-on-their-way-to-dealers/

 

[user 340]

Tesla will certainly make a better product

Oh really?! I think this shows that "better" is a very subjective word.
Let's see I predict that the Tesla Model 3 will be better in these ways:
- Buyers will be beta testers; who needs extensive reliability testing?
- Fewer available for full $7500 US tax rebate
- Much higher cost when equipped with somewhat similar options
- Available over a year later, when Bolt is being upgraded / tweaked
- Perhaps / likely less non-highway range for the base model battery size
- It will certainly have cooler design & features

Frankly, I've had enough of being a beta tester with my RAV4EV. I'm ready to buy my next car from a company that designs & tests products for reliability before selling them.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Frankly, I've had enough of being a beta tester with my RAV4EV. I'm ready to buy my next car from a company that designs & tests products for reliability before selling them.

Much of the Bolt EV is built in South Korea by LG, even moreso than Tesla supplied Toyota for the RAV4 EV. Heck, LG even supplies the infotainment screen, as well as batteries and other major components.

We don't have any idea well that will work for GM. I don't have any doubts it will work out better than Tesla supplying Toyota, but let's be honest; to my knowledge, LG has never supplied any auto manufacturer on this scale.

 

[user 340]

Yes, LG does not have a track record for supplying reliable EV components. We do know that GM has been testing the Bolt and its key components on the road for a good while. This article from Forbes last summer documents sightings of prototype and pre-production Bolts on the roads in Michigan months before the product launch, and testing of components on Spark EVs and Volts before that:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/samabuelsamid/2016/06/13/2017-chevrolet-bolt-ev-gets-closer-as-it-appears-in-residential-neighborhoods/#320dbb001db3

LG may be a new player, but I have some confidence that GM knows how to design and test cars for reliability and to hopefully minimize problems like our all-too-ubiquitous premature component failures and sometimes dangerous Check EV System errors.

 

[TonyWilliams]

... GM knows how to design and test cars for reliability and to hopefully minimize problems like our all-too-ubiquitous premature component failures and sometimes dangerous Check EV System errors.

And the world's largest auto manufacturer, Toyota, doesn't know how to test a car?

 

[geo]

My RAV4 lease is up next summer. I'm leaning towards the Bolt as the replacement. Very interested in what the early adopters say about the car. If the release of the Volt is any indication, GM should do pretty well out of the gate. Time will tell.

The lease price I got from the online calculator was about $350/mo for premium trim and 15K miles.

 

[Bob]

I saw the Bolt at the LA Auto show a couple of weeks ago, but it was not available for driving. Decent vehicle, but my wife did not like the interior...she thought it looked kind of cheap and plasticy. We got to drive the Mercedes B-class (nice interior and ride but limp acceleration) and the eGolf (typical spartan German interior but tasteful, and a blast and a half to drive!!). Range may be a issue for you, compared to the Bolt, but VW is supposedly upping the range so it may be attractive by the time you buy/lease your next vehicle.

 

[michael]

My RAV4 lease is up next summer. I'm leaning towards the Bolt as the replacement. Very interested in what the early adopters say about the car. If the release of the Volt is any indication, GM should do pretty well out of the gate. Time will tell.

The lease price I got from the online calculator was about $350/mo for premium trim and 15K miles.

Rydell posted this on another forum:



2017 Bolt EV Sample Lease:

$279 +tax
with $3,450* due at signing
Based on MSRP of $37,495


*$3,450 includes includes sales tax, license,*dealer, bank and government fees and first month's payment
36 month term $0 security deposit. 25 cents per mile over 10,000 miles per year.
+Includes $2,500 Factory rebate available only to California and Oregon state residents.
+Does NOT include private offers, or California State rebates. CLICK HERE for more information on state rebates you might qualify for.

Adjusting this to a zero driveaway, about $100 more (3450/36), $370 or so plus tax, base model, 10K miles. I estimate premier about $50 more.

It's getting close to my "I'll take it price" but I'm hoping better deals will develop as the initial flurry of demand dies down.

My hope is to get one for under $400 plus tax, 15K miles, premier, zero driveaway. California $2500 effectively reduces this by $70 (2500/36)

 

[user 340]

And the world's largest auto manufacturer, Toyota, doesn't know how to test a car?

This was in response to your point re. GM not having much experience with LG Chem components and part of this Bolt vs. Model 3 thread. Much of the discussion has been speculating on differences between the Bolt and the Model 3.

Given their brand-averaged reliability, Toyota certainly does know how to test a car. That said, we could argue that they did not test or RAV4EVs adequately or to their normal high standards. I assert that Tesla has offloaded much of its reliability testing to its early customers (at least for the Models S and X so far). I'd like to buy my next car from a manufacturer who has done and learned from reliability testing before offering its cars for sale.

 

[michael]

My guess is that Toyota knew that the RAV platform was solid and proven; and that they trusted Tesla to deliver a solid drivetrain.

 

[TonyWilliams]

And the world's largest auto manufacturer, Toyota, doesn't know how to test a car?

This was in response to your point re. GM not having much experience with LG Chem components and part of this Bolt vs. Model 3 thread. Much of the discussion has been speculating on differences between the Bolt and the Model 3.

Given their brand-averaged reliability, Toyota certainly does know how to test a car. That said, we could argue that they did not test or RAV4EVs adequately or to their normal high standards. I assert that Tesla has offloaded much of its reliability testing to its early customers (at least for the Models S and X so far). I'd like to buy my next car from a manufacturer who has done and learned from reliability testing before offering its cars for sale.

Yet, Toyota screwed it up. They are the company offering the warranty, and allowing their well earned reputation to be challenged.

GM can make the same mistakes.

 

[BBQ]

I too want to trade in for a Bolt.

My current 2012 Rav4 EV purchased on 2013 April with 0% 60 month + $10000 discount from Toyota at the time. Monthly payment is around $760 and still have 16 months to go. It have 82,000 miles on it now and went through two motors. I cannot tell the difference in drive range with or without "extended range" on this battery already.

2nd motor was replaced @ 72,000 miles (past 60,000 miles warranty). After the car sit in the dealer service for a month and a few angry email to Toyota HQ, they replace this motor as "good faith" without charge. This motor carries 12,000 mile warranty which means it will expire @ 84,000 miles. If this motor breaks again, it will cost around $12k-$16k on parts.

KBB trade in value for this car is around $11-$12k and currently still have $12k on the balance. If the motor breaks again, it might worth a few grand as someone's pet project.

For a fully loaded Premier model ($44k) with 2.9% from GM financing and this car traded-in with break even, it will be around $787 a month for 60 months assuming $0 down in GM calculator.

Math tells me it make sense for me to move on.

 

[jabroni420]

Is the need for motor replacement as widespread as this forum implies or is it more isolated incidents?

 

[miimura]

Is the need for motor replacement as widespread as this forum implies or is it more isolated incidents?

My car was purchased at the same time and with identical terms to @BBQ, but I traded in my ICE car for $5,000 and my payment is $652/mo. I pocketed the $2,500 State rebate and the $7,500 tax credit. With 0% financing it didn't make sense to lower the payment by putting that money in up front.

I have only 38,000 miles on my RAV4 EV and I have not needed a motor replacement. It has a slight whine at low speeds, particularly noticeable only when the audio is off. Tire and wind noise is louder than the whine above 35 or 40mph. I have the 8 year 100,000 miles Toyota Platinum warranty, so I will have at least 3 years with no payment and no significant repair expense. I may have some loss of use while they fix it, but I will force them to make good on the warranty and keep fixing it as necessary. The only significant repair on my car was the on-board charger. It was replaced by the selling dealer before I bought the car. I only know about it because it shows up in the Toyota Owners online service history.

 

[michael]

Is the need for motor replacement as widespread as this forum implies or is it more isolated incidents?

I believe it is widespread. My first one replaced at around 40K miles, now at 60K miles awaiting second replacement.

Some people may be eligible for replacement but aren't enough bothered by the noise to bother.

 

[michael]

I too want to trade in for a Bolt.

My current 2012 Rav4 EV purchased on 2013 April with 0% 60 month + $10000 discount from Toyota at the time. Monthly payment is around $760 and still have 16 months to go. It have 82,000 miles on it now and went through two motors. I cannot tell the difference in drive range with or without "extended range" on this battery already.

2nd motor was replaced @ 72,000 miles (past 60,000 miles warranty). After the car sit in the dealer service for a month and a few angry email to Toyota HQ, they replace this motor as "good faith" without charge. This motor carries 12,000 mile warranty which means it will expire @ 84,000 miles. If this motor breaks again, it will cost around $12k-$16k on parts.

KBB trade in value for this car is around $11-$12k and currently still have $12k on the balance. If the motor breaks again, it might worth a few grand as someone's pet project.

For a fully loaded Premier model ($44k) with 2.9% from GM financing and this car traded-in with break even, it will be around $787 a month for 60 months assuming $0 down in GM calculator.

Math tells me it make sense for me to move on.

60K miles? I thought the electric drivetrain warranty was 80K???

 

[TonyWilliams]

Warranty for RAV4 EV is easy to find, and posted many times on the forum:

36 months / 36,000 miles everything

60 months / 60,000 miles drivetrain

96 months / 100,000 miles battery (no degradation warranty... battery failure only)

 

[michael]

I thought the California EV warranty covered the electric motor too, I guess not...glad I got an extended warranty