Charging: Stopped by System Malfunction

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Car OFF

Using Matt's pic above, check that Signal terminal (Toyota calls it D9; I call it the Logic connector) at pins 5 & 6 should yield close to zero ohms, and that will check all three KET connectors (Cabin Heater, A/C Compressor, Battery Heater) as well as the HV input HVIL switch I noted in a pic earlier. If you get zero ohms for a reading there, then you don't have to chase anything plugged into the DC-DC Converter.

DC-DC_Converter_23b_HVIL_Loop_Test.jpg

Then, on the D9 connector (at the harness side this time), check the same pins. From a post in the thread I referenced above:

1741890662527.png

That should yield 240Ω (car OFF).

DC-DC_Converter_24b_HVIL_Loop_Test.jpg

See this post in that same thread, where I describe how to do this. Do not try to force your meter's probes into that connector, use ball pins or equivalent as I described in that post.

If not, then you have to proceed to check the HVIL for other units at their respective connectors: LDU, HV Battery
 
Car OFF
Using Matt's pic above, check that Signal terminal (Toyota calls it D9; I call it the Logic connector) at pins 5 & 6 should yield close to zero ohms, and that will check all three KET connectors (Cabin Heater, A/C Compressor, Battery Heater) as well as the HV input HVIL switch I noted in a pic earlier. If you get zero ohms for a reading there, then you don't have to chase anything plugged into the DC-DC Converter.
View attachment 1300
Then, on the D9 connector (at the harness side this time), check the same pins. From a post in the thread I referenced above:
...
Good result of checking the conductivity of these jumpers in DC-DC converter (black wires) https://alflash.com.ua/2019/to_rav4ev/conv_hvils.jpg
conv_hvils.jpg

https://alflash.com.ua/2019/to_rav4ev/hvil_pins_.jpg
hvil_pins_.jpg


... That should yield 240Ω (car OFF).
View attachment 1301
...
I still think that one of the HVIL line resistors is faulty: 3000:5=60 (Ohm), 3000:6=75 (Ohm).
That is, the total resistance is increased. But the system tolerates/doesn't notice it ;)
 
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The car does not need to be on for this check, or the one above. The resistance is being measured on the OBC, not on the harness that is part of the vehicle wiring.

Depending on the results of these two checks, we may then need to make some measurements on the vehicle-side connectors.

Here are the results:
I had to make the connectors in the pic to measure OBC 3&9, without taking it out. It shows ~2 MOhms ! (fluctuating).

DCDC SIGNAL 5&6 first showed 0.5 Ohm. Then, I removed the Coolant and the A/C harnesses to move it to the side. Then, measured again. It showed O.L
 

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Car OFF

Then, on the D9 connector (at the harness side this time), check the same pins. From a post in the thread I referenced above:

That should yield 240Ω (car OFF).

Forgot to mention, measurements are made with both 12V and orange HV plug removed.

Harness side of D9 shows ~2MOhm. My other cheap multimeter shows OPEN circuit.
(I used paper clip pieces to insert in the connector). All the KET connectors plugged.
 
Forgot to mention, measurements are made with both 12V and orange HV plug removed.

Harness side of D9 shows ~2MOhm. My other cheap multimeter shows OPEN circuit.
(I used paper clip pieces to insert in the connector). All the KET connectors plugged.
Please do me a favor and try read what the recommended file says!
" Measure the resistance between pin 6 on the harness side connector and chassis ground.
Does the resistance measure approximately 240 ohms? (YES, NO)"
...Reconnect the DC-DC low voltage connector and disconnect the low voltage connector from the on-board charger. Measure the resistance between pin 3 on the harness side connector and chassis ground. Does the resistance measure approximately 180 ohms (240 ohms total HVIL, circuit resistance minus 60 ohms within the charger = 180 ohms)?
... The resistance of the HVIL circuit within the charger should be 60 ohms.
 
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Please do me a favor and try read what the recommended file says!

Oh yes, you're right. I'm lost in other details.

Resistance between pin 3 on the harness side connector and chassis ground of OBC Connector is exactly 180 Ohms.


1741902334796.png
"Low Voltage Connectors at the HV battery". Which connectors it is referring to?

Does "...are secure" mean that they are all connected, including the orange HV plug and 12V battery?
 
The resistance between pins 3 & 9 on the OBC is OL (open).

We've located your HVIL problem! Side note: the zero ohm reading on the DC-DC means that unit and three HV accessory connectors plugged into it are all good.

First I would check the end of the OBC with the AC and HV leads; there should be a little jumper plugged into the white three pin connector (refer to middle picture of post #43 above). It's pretty easy to knock this jumper out while moving things around.
 
We've located your HVIL problem! Side note: the zero ohm reading on the DC-DC means that unit and three HV accessory connectors plugged into it are all good.

It is the OBC, isn't it?

How about the contactors? Do they last over 120K miles?

First I would check the end of the OBC with the AC and HV leads; there should be a little jumper plugged into the white three pin connector (refer to middle picture of post #43 above). It's pretty easy to knock this jumper out while moving things around.

It is firmly in place (pic).
 

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Oh yes, you're right. I'm lost in other details.

Resistance between pin 3 on the harness side connector and chassis ground of OBC Connector is exactly 180 Ohms.


View attachment 1303
"Low Voltage Connectors at the HV battery". Which connectors it is referring to?
These are "signal" connectors h1, d4, d9, d14. Their appearance, contact numbering and contact arrangement ILKO and ILKI were shown to you earlier.
Does "...are secure" mean that they are all connected, including the orange HV plug and 12V battery?
It is recommended to check the serviceability of HVIL in the ready-off state.
And these are tests of passive components (jumpers, resistors and wiring).
As shown in the recommended picture, the Service Plug Grip has a jumper line HVIL.
There are two in the battery (attach.).
I don't understand why you neglect/put on one side of my request and recomendation ...
 

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I still think that one of the HVIL line resistors is faulty: 3000:5=60 (Ohm), 3000:6=75 (Ohm).
That is, the total resistance is increased. But the system tolerates/doesn't notice it ;)
Yes, that's my white car, and we discussed that before: the meter reads ~254Ω where it should read ~240Ω, and you (and I) suspect one of the paralleled resistors in one of the HVIL resistor networks has failed. I'll be tracking that down sometime this Spring, when I drop out the LDU.
 
Yes, that's my white car, and we discussed that before: the meter reads ~254Ω where it should read ~240Ω, and you (and I) suspect one of the paralleled resistors in one of the HVIL resistor networks has failed.
Yes, Sir! :)
I'll be tracking that down sometime this Spring, when I drop out the LDU.
If RAV4EV tolerates this "disadvantage", then perhaps we can also come to terms with it?
 
I don't understand why you neglect/put on one side of my request and recomendation ...

alflash,
With all due respect, I don't intend to neglect your recommendations. On the contrary, I value them a lot and I was planning to express my appreciation to you.
The only reason why I look so is because I don't understand a lot of things, yet. I'm like "shooting in the dark". Learning every hour, still not enough.
Moreover, the age makes things harder...
 
It is the OBC, isn't it?

It looks as if you're testing on the correct terminals. Given that you measured well above 60Ω on the OBC's Logic connector pins 3 & 9, you can check further and pin down whether the open circuit is at the Lid Switch side or the resistor side of the OBC's internal HVIL loop. Below diagram is from the 2012 Tesla service manual, but the RAV4 EV OBC is the same part and is wired the same way for the HVIL loop:

2012_ModelS_LHD_Release_24.2-4b.jpg

On the OBC's Logic connector, where you were testing before, pick one terminal and use it for one of your ohmmeter's leads. For the other lead, backprobe that external jumper (either terminal: they're shorted together). Your ohmmeter should read either 0Ω, 60Ω, or OL.

  • If it reads 0 (or under 1, anyway), the lid switch circuit is OK; look at the resistor side of the circuit
  • If it reads 60 (or thereabouts), the resistor side of the circuit is OK; look at the lid switch side
  • If it reads OL, move your ohmmeter lead on the Logic connector to the other terminal and try again (ie if you were connected to pin 3, try pin 9 now)

I know exactly where the lid switch is (on the AC Input PCB, the one you access to replace the problematic fuses) and its magnet resides . . . on the lid! I've never bothered to locate the internal HVIL resistor network in the OBC, because it hasn't presented as failed AFAIK . . . yet. But I would think either half of the circuit should be repairable.

Could be wiring (failed crimp), could be a cracked PCB, but with a reading as high as you saw, the lid switch would be a prime suspect in my mind. In any event, track down which side of the circuit is at issue first. If we decide it's one side or the other, I'll take my spare OBC apart and try to track down test points (or perhaps Matt already has this info).

How about the contactors? Do they last over 120K miles?

My first set of HV contactors failed at around 70k, under warranty. To fix it, I received a "Reman" battery pack from Tesla, and those contactors failed five years later at 122k (but who knows how many miles were on that Reman?). When I opened the Reman pack to replace both contactors, I found that Tesla had not in fact replaced them: they were the same problematic TE Conn. contactors that had issues in the early Model S/X as well as the RAV4 EV.

I replaced them with proper Gigavac GV200s, same or similar to the ones that Tesla eventually started using to repair warranty Model S/X packs. I have not heard of the GV contactors failing in service . . . but the originals? Yeah, all the time. And a PITA to replace, unless you have lots of time and a really flat work space to R&R the pack. The lid is glued on with mastic. Not fun. My HV contactors replacement thread.
 
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...How about the contactors? Do they last over 120K miles?
...
In my practice, the first case of diagnostics of a faulty contactor was in 2017 in a RAV4EV with a mileage of 21,000 km. But this was an isolated case. After 60÷80k miles, the probability of their thermal damage increases significantly.
For example,
 
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