Charging Malfunction - Turtle w 1/3 charge remaining?

[reeler]

It is very cold in Denver with the temps around zero to minus 5. I plugged-in last night with my Toyota Level 1 charger with 110V outside. The yellow charging lights came on as normal.

This morning, I checked my charge with Entune and got a Charging Malfunction message. I sent a preheating command to the car.

Upon going out to the car, the charger was plugged in fine, but the yellow lights were off. It didn't preheat. I started out in turtle mode for about 5 miles until the battery warmed.

I am guessing that the TMS failed and stopped the charger. I was in turtle with a 1/3 tank because the TMS was shut down. Or, maybe the car will not charge below a certain temperature?

Below is a picture of the dash.

I made my 15 mile commute no problem despite starting with 7 miles on the GOM. I had two blocks on the GOM left when I arrived at the office.

I am charging fine now at work in a heated garage with a Level 2 charger.

 

[TonyWilliams]

My Rav4 has several times failed to charge on the timer. I'm considering putting a timer on the EVSE and using that instead. Are sure the first light only was blinking, indicating charging on the lowest 50% of the battery capacity? Do you have timers set up?

Yes, your car was protecting itself from cold with turtle mode, and the preheat won't come on when there is less than 50% charge. Thankfully, you knew to disregard the GOM and rely on the fuel gauge.

The battery heater won't come on either with low power state, but I don't know how low.

The bottom line is that EVERYTHING is a function of the car not charging. Why it didn't charge, I don't know.

 

[reeler]

My Rav4 has several times failed to charge on the timer. I'm considering putting a timer on the EVSE and using that instead. Are sure the first light only was blinking, indicating charging on the lowest 50% of the battery capacity? Do you have timers set up?

It was about 5/16 charged when I plugged in. One yellow light was blinking when I connected the charger. I don't have any timers set up as Colorado has cheap electricity and no time of day metering options with Xcel, my power provider.

I don't know why the charging malfunctioned. The EVSE had its yellow light on as normal in the morning. Both yellow lights on the car were off when I unplugged.

It sounds like this is normal behavior when cold and below a certain charge to not have the TMS operating. Apparently, with 5/16 blocks or less the TMS will not come on. Turtle is to be expected until the battery warms which was a few miles later.

 

[Dsinned]

In the first picture, your range gauge indicated "7" miles yet there were seven segments displayed. You drove 15 miles while losing three segments which is about right (~5miles per segment). But why was the GoM initially so inaccurate? With seven segments showing you should have had around 30 miles of range remaining.

The other thing I don't understand shows up in the second picture. The GoM indicated "LO" with three segments still showing, while on the LH side of the i/P, your "Driving Range" display showed "5 miles (max)" in ECO HI mode. I assume you were in ECO HI mode the whole time, and only drove 5 miles since the first picture. Did you really drop from 5 to 3 segments in only 5 miles? That seems like an unusually high battery charge depletion rate.

According to Tony's (preliminary) Range Chart, each segment on the GoM is roughly equal to 2kWh, so if your RAV4 EV dropped two segments in 5 miles, you must of been getting really terrible driving efficiency . . . ~ 1.25mi/kWh! Were you driving mostly uphill on your way to work?

Inspite of driving your RAV4 EV while trying to warm up the battery in subzero temperatures, the story being told by your I/P is difficult to understand. Either the gauges may have been grossly inaccurate, or when the TMS battery heater is running, without being in an EVSE charging mode, there must be a major impact on driving efficiency. In any event, I'll bet you were glad to make it to work under such unpredicable circumstances!

 

[TonyWilliams]

... Did you really drop from 5 to 3 segments in only 5 miles? That seems like an unusually high battery charge depletion rate... you were must of been getting really terrible driving efficiency . . . ~ 1.25mi/kWh! Were you driving mostly uphill on your way to work?

There would have been two resistant heaters running (cabin and battery, both separate heaters); that will kill economy!!!

 

[reeler]

According to Tony's (preliminary) Range Chart, each segment on the GoM is roughly equal to 2kWh, so if your RAV4 EV dropped two segments in 5 miles, you must of been getting really terrible driving efficiency . . . ~ 1.25mi/kWh! Were you driving mostly uphill on your way to work?

My commute is flat with 4 miles on surface streets and the rest on the freeway. I drive around 60 mph or less on average. Entune reports a 2.3 m/KWh which is the average since I received the car about a month ago I presume. I just mapped it on Google and it is 16.1 miles.

Here is another pic, taken right after the second one above. After I turned off the HVAC, my range went up a little to not be "Lo." I wasn't running the cabin heater most of the time prior to this and only turned it on once my original 7 mile estimate determined inaccurate and that I would make it to the office.

I showed-up at work with 2/16 remaining. It is pretty typical for my commute to take 4/16 in the cold weather. It was better when warmer.

 

[Dsinned]

Your gauge in picture #3 indicates THREE bars, not two.

What do you get after fully charged (standard or extended)? Do you drive in Sport Mode?

With avg driving efficiency of 2.4mi/kWh - if accurate - fully charged your GoM should initially indicate 84 (std) or 100 (ext) miles of maximum range. Also, if that is really your driving efficiency, each segment would equate to ~5 miles of incremental range, (2.4mi/kWh * 2kWh = 4.8 miles). With HVAC off you should be getting much more than 1.25mi/kWh unless you are doing mostly uphill driving.

If your battery's TMS was actively heating a lot of the time while you were driving to work, it is possible driving efficiency could decrease significantly but I would think this would be reflected in your driving efficiency average.

What does Entunes ECO Dashboard say about your daily driving efficiency?

I recommend resetting your driving efficiency gauge. While displayed, just press and hold the DISP button on your steering wheel. You can also update or reset (clear) your center console readings. Do this before you start out each day, once in awhile (weekly? or before a fairly long continuous drive, round trip). I have read from others that the efficiency reading gets "stuck" sometimes. I'm not sure that can happen or not, but just in case, reset once in awhile and make sure the reading changes a lot initially until it restabilizes to a new running avg.

 

[Jscifres]

If your battery's TMS was actively heating a lot of the time while you were driving to work, it is possible driving efficiency could decrease significantly but I would think this would be reflected in your driving efficiency average.

I can testify with absolute certainty that if you drive while the TMS is heating the battery, AND the HVAC is on (in my case ECO Hi) then you can have abysmal efficiency.

Here are the conditions and efficiency numbers reported on my ECO Dashboard for my 'last drive'...

Conditions: 30 deg, car unplugged and parked for 2 hours, I get in the car and drive home ~ 1.5 miles with ECO Hi running and seat heaters set to '1'....

Efficiency: Eco Score was 77/100, but I only got 1.1 mi/kWh!!!! I'm sure that the HVAC and the TMS were both running strong the whole 1.5 miles home...

I think in this cold weather, we really need to precondition the car on the grid!

 

[reeler]

Your gauge in picture #3 indicates THREE bars, not two.

I was about half way to work when I snapped the photo. It was two blocks when I arrived at work.

What do you get after fully charged (standard or extended)? Do you drive in Sport Mode?

I have seen the GOM as low as 57 miles after leaving with a 80% charge on a cold day from a heated garage.

I will try resetting to see what happens.

 

[Dsinned]

What do you get after fully charged (standard or extended)? Do you drive in Sport Mode?

I have seen the GOM as low as 57 miles after leaving with a 80% charge on a cold day from a heated garage.

I will try resetting to see what happens.

Hmmm . . . if all you got was 57 miles on your GoM after a STANDARD charge to 80% of full capacity (i.e. 35kWh), your "learned" driving efficiency must be only 1.63mi/kWh, (57mi / 35kWh = 1.63mi/kWh). Yet, you say your "indicated" average is 2.3mi/kWh??? Yes, I think you should try resetting your driving efficiency display(s), because it sure seems like something is out of whack with your car's instrumentation and throwing off the accuracy of your gauges!

Perhaps, driving in such frigid weather conditions in CA, even at sea level where it tends not to be below freezing in the Winter, (not in "Reeler's" case, who lives near Denver, so he must be seeing subzero weather this time of year), will cause battery efficiency to drop significantly. However, I would of thought this would have been mentioned more prominently in the Owners Manual. I do not know if the EPA rating takes in to account low temperature conditions, but with an electric range rating of "103", this now seems rather high for all weather driving conditions especially in the Winter.

 

[reeler]

Hmmm . . . if all you got was 57 miles on your GoM after a STANDARD charge to 80% of full capacity (i.e. 35kWh), your "learned" driving efficiency must be only 1.63mi/kWh, (57mi / 35kWh = 1.63mi/kWh). Yet, you say your "indicated" average is 2.3mi/kWh??? Yes, I think you should try resetting your driving efficiency display(s), because it sure seems like something is out of whack with your car's instrumentation and throwing off the accuracy of your gauges!

Perhaps, driving in such frigid weather conditions in CA, even at sea level where it tends not to be below freezing in the Winter, (not in "Reeler's" case, who lives near Denver, so he must be seeing subzero weather this time of year), will cause battery efficiency to drop significantly. However, I would of thought this would have been mentioned more prominently in the Owners Manual. I do not know if the EPA rating takes in to account low temperature conditions, but with an electric range rating of "103", this now seems rather high for all weather driving conditions especially in the Winter.

The 1.63 is predicted for a given battery temperature and HVAC setting for an instantaneous prediction based upon current conditions. The 2.3 is overall since I received the car.

 

[Dsinned]

If so, then the question becomes does the fully charged reading on the GoM set by an instantaneous set of driving conditions, or an average of mi/kWh determined over the long term? All we know is that when the car has a battery disconnect (computer reset), regardless of present driving conditions, it tends to default the GoM reading to a rather high level.

My experience with my car (albeit, not yet having exposed it to nearly as extreme cold weather conditions), leads me to believe the GoM tends to correlate with the charted mi/kWh as a running average and it seems the best source of data for the latter. This is the data recorded in the EnTunes Eco Dashboard app. This is what I am referring to as the RAV4 EV's "learned" driving efficiency; it gets updated after every drive, whether short or long, regardless of driving conditions.

Reeler, can you tell us what your ECO Dashboard reading says?

A reading as low as 1.63mi/kWh is certainly possible and you may see an occasional reading this low from your "last drive" recorded on the dashboard, but your averaged driving efficiency reading tends to be normalized over a longer period of time, and (I think) correlates reasonably well with the GoM after a fresh charge.

 

[reeler]

Reeler, can you tell us what your ECO Dashboard reading says?

A reading as low as 1.63mi/kWh is certainly possible and you may see an occasional reading this low from your "last drive" recorded on the dashboard, but your averaged driving efficiency reading tends to be normalized over a longer period of time, and (I think) correlates reasonably well with the GoM after a fresh charge.

Summary\EV Efficiency on ECO Dashboard is 2.3. I rarely drive with the heater on beyond Eco High if at all to achieve that. Most of the time that I drive it is not extremely cold.

On an extremely cold day with the TMS and heater on higher than normal, I think your GOM will average down from the 2.3 (in my case). I am certain that there is an adjustment on the GOM for the current temperature and HVAC and TMS usage.

 

[Dsinned]

With a Summary EV Efficiency of "2.3", which can be taken as the "learned" driving efficiency by your car, I would expect you to get closer to 80 miles from a standard (80%) charge. But, you are only getting 57 miles. That still seems like you have some sort of mismatch. Have you tried resetting your driving efficiency gauge yet? 2.3 just seems too high based on your relatively low GoM reading after a full charge, "if" your battery efficiency is significantly influenced by driving with your TMS running during very cold weather conditions. Anyways, after we get back into the warmer months of the year, this apparent mismatch may correct itself.

 

[reeler]

With a Summary EV Efficiency of "2.3", which can be taken as the "learned" driving efficiency by your car, I would expect you to get closer to 80 miles from a standard (80%) charge. But, you are only getting 57 miles. That still seems like you have some sort of mismatch. Have you tried resetting your driving efficiency gauge yet? 2.3 just seems too high based on your relatively low GoM reading after a full charge, "if" your battery efficiency is significantly influenced by driving with your TMS running during very cold weather conditions. Anyways, after we get back into the warmer months of the year, this apparent mismatch may correct itself.

I don't typically drive with the heat on and this cold snap is unusual. Most of December was in the sixty's. I will snap a photo next time.