ALL POSTS - Heater Failed - Service Bulletin TSB 0111-14

[fromport]

Get a call today:
The dealer replaced the DC-DC converter and the resistive heater.
When they powered the high voltage back on the computer would not respond to diagnostic signals on the OBD2 plug.

Toyota now thinks my modification of the volt/amp meter I attached to the J1772 INLET is causing problems on the CANBUS of the car.
Going over to the dealership today to disable my volt/amp meter.

Yes, a purely analog thing that isn't even connected to the CAN bus is causing the problem. Geniuses.

Get's even better.
This dealer is about 45 miles away, due to accident on the 101 I took a backroute (10 miles shorter) but it turned out maintenance made the 118 into a one way street.
So took me 1 hr 15 minutes to get to the dealership.
I had all the necessary tools with me, but asked a person from the office to come with me.
Car would not give the "click" of main contactor with brake pressed and the on/off switch activated.
I disconnected the 12 volt battery, opened and disconnected the Main breaker/high voltage disconnect (which they disconnected to work on the HV dc-dc converter & heating element).
I re-seated the HV breaker/disconnect.
reconnected the 12 volt battery.
Car came to live (loaded navigation etc)
pressed brake and "CLICK" HV came online. problem fixed

My 2.5 hours back and forth for a 2 minute procedure that the certified technician should have done in the first place.
But suggesting that an anolog device is the culprit
The EV technician was off today, so tomorrow he hopefully will finish reassembling the rav4ev and I can exchange it again

 

[miimura]

Get a call today:
The dealer replaced the DC-DC converter and the resistive heater.
When they powered the high voltage back on the computer would not respond to diagnostic signals on the OBD2 plug.

Toyota now thinks my modification of the volt/amp meter I attached to the J1772 INLET is causing problems on the CANBUS of the car.
Going over to the dealership today to disable my volt/amp meter.

Yes, a purely analog thing that isn't even connected to the CAN bus is causing the problem. Geniuses.

Get's even better.
This dealer is about 45 miles away, due to accident on the 101 I took a backroute (10 miles shorter) but it turned out maintenance made the 118 into a one way street.
So took me 1 hr 15 minutes to get to the dealership.
I had all the necessary tools with me, but asked a person from the office to come with me.
Car would not give the "click" of main contactor with brake pressed and the on/off switch activated.
I disconnected the 12 volt battery, opened and disconnected the Main breaker/high voltage disconnect (which they disconnected to work on the HV dc-dc converter & heating element).
I re-seated the HV breaker/disconnect.
reconnected the 12 volt battery.
Car came to live (loaded navigation etc)
pressed brake and "CLICK" HV came online. problem fixed

My 2.5 hours back and forth for a 2 minute procedure that the certified technician should have done in the first place.
But suggesting that an anolog device is the culprit
The EV technician was off today, so tomorrow he hopefully will finish reassembling the rav4ev and I can exchange it again

If that was me, the service manager would have received a long lecture about competence and blaming the customer for absurdly unrelated things.

 

[davewill]

So did you go ahead and disconnect the meter? If so, I can practically guaranty they will blame it anyway.

 

[fromport]

So did you go ahead and disconnect the meter? If so, I can practically guaranty they will blame it anyway.

Nope, I told them that the problem was fixed, while someone of the company watched how I solved it.
That that would mean it wasn't my modification , that it wouldn't be necessary to disable the meter.
They at least agreed on that.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I disconnected the 12 volt battery, opened and disconnected the Main breaker/high voltage disconnect (which they disconnected to work on the HV dc-dc converter & heating element).
I re-seated the HV breaker/disconnect.
reconnected the 12 volt battery.
Car came to live (loaded navigation etc)
pressed brake and "CLICK" HV came online. problem fixed

Classic newbie mistake. Thankfully, easy to fix.

I've talked dealers through this before, when they couldn't get the car running after working on the High Voltage system.

 

[llnsj]

Did you advise the dealer of the Toyota Service Bulletin TSB-0111-14?

I got the final words from Toyota Customer Experience case manager Thorn and it's not covered by this service bulletin. Toyota offered 30% of the cost and I will be responsible for the rest $4300. The replacement part and labor is warranted for 12 months so any RAV4 EV owner can pay up to $6200 every 12 months for this problem.

Well you can say buy extended warranty. Yes it's my stupid idea to trust a Toyota to keep running and the heater problem is just matter of comfort and convenience. It's not. This issue can totally render the car to be useless and a piece of junk with Check EV system screen of death. At max you can buy 100K miles extended warranty but after that none can afford this cost every year.

I've read top 10 problems before purchasing it. The top 1 is heater, and I thought I could live without heater or I could just pay $2500. However it's not true. $2000 is just for heater core itself and then often the DC to DC converter need to be replaced, another $2400, and then labor to make it > $6200 job.

Please pretty please warn people it's not $2500 or without heater that one has to deal but it's really bad investment. Of course, my next car won't ever be a Toyota or Lexus. They put their name on this RAV4 EV but shamelessly blamed it on the join venture.


Now I wish some gurus can tell me how to disable this darn heater so it won't ever be broken again so I don't have to deal with this anymore in the future.

I know this message can harm me in a way that RAV4 EV will be sold at lower price, but it's the truth while I am being honest to any future owner.

LLN

 

[smkettner]

How many heaters have been replaced twice?

Seems like an assembly defect to me as replacements seem to hold up fine.

 

[TonyWilliams]

How many heaters have been replaced twice?

Seems like an assembly defect to me as replacements seem to hold up fine.

Sheldon Brown (Rav4 EV manager) told me on the phone that there was a defect in the Denso heaters.

It's extremely unlikely that a failed heater would be replaced more than once.

 

[llnsj]

How many heaters have been replaced twice?

Seems like an assembly defect to me as replacements seem to hold up fine.

Sheldon Brown (Rav4 EV manager) told me on the phone that there was a defect in the Denso heaters.

It's extremely unlikely that a failed heater would be replaced more than once.

It's odd that he acknowledged the defect but Toyota did not issue a recall on my car. Therefore they "thought" they fixed it with late 2013 version, but mine failed after 3 years and 36K miles. Has anyone got the replacement and it's still good after 3 years or 36K miles yet? Probably not.

LLN

 

[TonyWilliams]

How many heaters have been replaced twice?

Seems like an assembly defect to me as replacements seem to hold up fine.

Sheldon Brown (Rav4 EV manager) told me on the phone that there was a defect in the Denso heaters.

It's extremely unlikely that a failed heater would be replaced more than once.

It's odd that he acknowledged the defect but Toyota did not issue a recall on my car. Therefore they "thought" they fixed it with late 2013 version, but mine failed after 3 years and 36K miles. Has anyone got the replacement and it's still good after 3 years or 36K miles yet? Probably not.

LLN

My 2012 had the cabin heater replaced early in its life (probably 2013). it still works good at 81,000 miles.

 

[llnsj]

It's odd that he acknowledged the defect but Toyota did not issue a recall on my car. Therefore they "thought" they fixed it with late 2013 version, but mine failed after 3 years and 36K miles. Has anyone got the replacement and it's still good after 3 years or 36K miles yet? Probably not.

LLN

My 2012 had the cabin heater replaced early in its life (probably 2013). it still works good at 81,000 miles.

Thanks Tony. Well, then what was the problem with my car? Bad original problem unit? as mine should be newer than your replacement as my car manufactured in Nov 2013. We are in California and hardly use this heater.

LLN

 

[Airton]

I'm in the north east and still have my original heater at 91k miles (it gets used a lot)

 

[fromport]

Thanks Tony. Well, then what was the problem with my car? Bad original problem unit? as mine should be newer than your replacement as my car manufactured in Nov 2013. We are in California and hardly use this heater.

LLN

My 2014 with 34k miles recently failed with the heater. It's not like the early models fail more often than the newer ones imo.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Thanks Tony. Well, then what was the problem with my car? Bad original problem unit? as mine should be newer than your replacement as my car manufactured in Nov 2013. We are in California and hardly use this heater.

LLN

The problem with your car is a bad heater. No outrage is required.

Yours likely isn't any different, as this car was assembled by Toyota as a 2600 count vehicle. They ordered 2600 cabin heaters, plus whatever is customary for spares. The heater manufacturer (Denso) or tier one supplier sent Toyota the heaters on some schedule.

How much you use it has absolutely nothing to do with it being bad. It's still bad if you NEVER used it.

 

[llnsj]

The problem with your car is a bad heater. No outrage is required.

Yours likely isn't any different, as this car was assembled by Toyota as a 2600 count vehicle. They ordered 2600 cabin heaters, plus whatever is customary for spares. The heater manufacturer (Denso) or tier one supplier sent Toyota the heaters on some schedule.

How much you use it has absolutely nothing to do with it being bad. It's still bad if you NEVER used it.

Thanks Tony. That explained it. It seems Toyota continued dumping the defective units and decided to deal with this issue later when customer ever experienced with this issue in 3-years/36K miles. At this time there is a hope that the replacement to be one time deal.

Frankly, I overlooked your note as 1st top 10 issue when I researched for the car. I did not know the actual cost to be $6200 and it triggered Check EV screen of death to be a must fix problem.

LLN

 

[llnsj]

I'm in the north east and still have my original heater at 91k miles (it gets used a lot)

May be the heater will last if it gets used frequently or alot ?

LLN

 

[ddoxey]

I just purchased my 2013 Rav4 EV, with 25K miles, about two weeks ago. I just love the way this car drives and I'm tickled pink that I'm never going to buy gasoline again.

With the cold and raining weather lately, I like to blast the heat on my morning commute. This heater doesn't work worth a damn. It's just blowing unheated air. Well, that's disappointing. A functioning heater is one of the most basic creature comforts -- if not a safety feature when it comes to keeping the windshield unfogged.

I took it in to Toyota of El Cajon for the 25k service, the wiper recall, and the rear seat belt recall. As I was cashing out I mentioned to the service writer that I want to have a conversation about getting the heater fixed on my next visit. I started explaining to him the things that I learned here, about the heater core and the DC/DC converter, and he just nodded "uh, huh, uh, huh." Turns out he knows all about it.

We did not yet start having the conversation about the fact that this car is well beyond the 3 year / 36k mile threshold. I have a sinking feeling I'm going to be on the hook for the whole bill. But I'll talk to Thorn first.

But considering worse case scenario, I'm looking at what these parts are going to cost.

87101-42010 Heater Sub-Assy, Elec -- $2,135.95
G9270-0R011 Converter Assy, Elec -- $1,766.33
00289-G48VC G-48 Coolant -- $21.23
00272-GTBC1 S/L Life Blue -- $34.03

That's around $3,957.54 in parts and coolant. If I'm on the hook for the full cost then I'll be doing the work myself.

 

[dstjohn99]

Interested to hear how it goes with Toyota El Cajon, that's where I take my Rav. Also, if you bought it 2 weeks ago, isn't there some sort of 30 day or warranty - if it was broken when you bought it?

 

[miimura]

Depends where he bought the car. When I was looking at RAV4 EVs sold by two different Toyota dealers, they came with 1 year 10,000 miles service agreement at no additional charge.

 

[llnsj]

But considering worse case scenario, I'm looking at what these parts are going to cost.

87101-42010 Heater Sub-Assy, Elec -- $2,135.95
G9270-0R011 Converter Assy, Elec -- $1,766.33
00289-G48VC G-48 Coolant -- $21.23
00272-GTBC1 S/L Life Blue -- $34.03

That's around $3,957.54 in parts and coolant. If I'm on the hook for the full cost then I'll be doing the work myself.

I just got my car back. My bill was $4624 AFTER Toyota chipped in 30%. The parts quoted on mine were much higher than yours. I think you can expect/hope 30% sharing from Toyota.

BTW, I did ask for this TSB 0111-14 and read the print out. Basically it's is ONLY covered in the basic warranty 36mo/36K only. Well, if it's under warranty then they had to cover anyway. I talked to the service advisor and he told me most TSB were only applicable for 36mos/36K on basic warranty only.

LLN