ALL POSTS about Charge Timer Failure

[fooljoe]

While I think what fooljoe has done is great, the in-car charge timer provides a solution that is both free and autonomous.

It's not free, you paid ~$40,000 for that piece of crap! What's $39 for something that actually works in comparison? And the on-board timer's not even fully autonomous - I just got burned by the car starting to charge before my RavCharge timer because of the DST switch. How is it that our completely connected cars require us to manually change the clock for daylight savings?

It's not dependent on the operation of the car's cellular link, AT&T's cell networks, Toyota's Entune service or the RavCharge service itself.

Good points, but it's wrong to look at the RavCharge/on-board timer decision as having to pick one or the other: They work best together. The recommended way to use RavCharge is to leave the car's departure timer set, but set it just late enough so that you know it won't ever start a charge before you want it to. Then if anything goes wrong with RavCharge/Entune/AT&T, you have the car as a fallback, and when something goes wrong with the car's timer, you have RavCharge. So while it's true that neither is 100% reliable (although RavCharge is close ), it's very unlikely that both will let you down at the same time.

If Toyota is able to make the built-in charge timer reliable - and they clearly have been working in that direction, albeit slowly, and things have been reliable for me since the recent TSB was installed - the lack of reliance on several vendors' networks makes me think that the built-in timer provides the best solution long term, and is something we should be testing, discussing and pressuring Toyota to get exactly right.

That's a big IF, and if your belief that they've "clearly" been working in this direction were justified then RavCharge wouldn't exist! I got one of the first Leafs back in 2011 and drove that before getting my Rav, and its timer simply worked from day one and never failed in 2 years of daily usage. After getting the Rav I was blown away by how terrible its timer is in comparison, and it's cost me real time and money with its failings - RavCharge is the result of that frustration.

Consider this: The Rav's been around for over a year now, and Toyota, the world's #1 automaker, has only now maybe fixed the 31st bug, the most stupidly obvious bug imaginable. I on the other hand am just one guy but I built RavCharge from the ground up in a couple months, and when someone finds a bug, however minor, it's generally fixed in 1-2 days. While I'd love to think I could do that because I'm just a better programmer than any of Toyota's 300,000+ employees, the actuality is that getting this right isn't that hard - Toyota just doesn't care.

 

[Dsinned]

Nicely said fooljoe!

 

[mark_rivers19]

signing up for Ravcharge EASY!
reading through the 20 plus pages in the forum.. Painful! :lol:

 

[miimura]

As I suspected, updating my car to the latest firmware did not exorcise my "Charging Stopped Due to System Malfunction" errors. I plugged in the car a little before 9pm tonight and by 10pm Entune had e-mailed me the error. Charging should not have actually started for about 5 more hours, but it's done that before too. Sometimes it has charged anyway after throwing the error, sometimes not. I went down to the car, took a picture of the error on the dash, turned the car on, and turned it back off. It will probably charge normally with the timer after doing that.

We'll see how long it will take to fix this. The thing I really don't understand is how it can throw a menacing sounding error like this and not store any codes in the computers. I'm sure we'll go several rounds of them claiming they've fixed it but the error popping up again several weeks later. It's an intermittent problem that cannot be reproduced at will, so they may have to connect logging equipment to the car to try to catch something when it does throw the error.

 

[mhkp]

As I suspected, updating my car to the latest firmware ....

Whats the latest firmware number?

 

[Dsinned]

To the best of my knowledge it's Version 1.3.62, but after my most recent update at my dealership, even after I specifically mentioned that applying a F/W calibration sticker under the hood was required by the update procedure, they failed (or forgot???) to apply the sticker. In any event the update I received last month, did not "fix" anything whatsoever as near as I can tell. :roll:

 

[miimura]

As I suspected, updating my car to the latest firmware ....

Whats the latest firmware number?

I detailed it all on 10/29 a page or two back in this thread.

 

[rickrodod]

I have also had charger issues after a long drive. (It just fails to charge the car.)

I don't drive the Rav4 every day. Still love to drive my home conversion of a Porsche 914 with 140 mile range.

But it seems that if the Rav4EV shows less than about a 30 mile range left when I go to charge the car that's when the car fails to charge.
It's only happened 3 times in the 7 months I have owned the car with 5200 miles. I really hate not knowing if the car will be charged in the morning.
Also it's possible one of those failed charges happened on the 31st. I need to start keeping a log

Just saw the Rav4 web app by fooljoe post. I guess I need to look into that.

Thanks to all for posting your problems/issues.

 

[Dsinned]

As far as I'm concerned, FoolJoe's Ravcharge webapp is virtually foolproof! Toyota ought to be ashamed that just ONE PERSON external to the largest automaker in world came up with such an effective "workaround" for the RAV4 EV's faulty design.

 

[vips]

Has anyone specifically got the following 2 TSB's applied to their car to resolve the issues it claims to solve?

T-TT-0248-13 - Charging starts earlier than displayed on radio screen
TSB-0082-13 REV1 - Charge schedule function inoperative intermittently.

I am going to ask the Toyota service folks to apply above 2 fixes if it actually works.

 

[miimura]

Has anyone specifically got the following 2 TSB's applied to their car to resolve the issues it claims to solve?

T-TT-0248-13 - Charging starts earlier than displayed on radio screen
TSB-0082-13 REV1 - Charge schedule function inoperative intermittently.

I am going to ask the Toyota service folks to apply above 2 fixes if it actually works.

The first one is a "Tech Tip" document, not a fix that can be applied. It's telling the customer that early charging is the expected behavior. "It's a feature, not a bug".

I never experienced the problems fixed in the second one, TSB-0082-13 REV1. It is mostly fixing problems when the EVSE loses power, or other EVSE compatibility problems. It specifically says that it does NOT fix the 31st bug.

 

[Dsinned]

Last month, I had the latest firmware update performed to the Gateway Logic Control (Tesla) module. This corresponds to Calibration ID, 1-3-62, although my dealer never applied a sticker under the hood reflecting this update was performed, even though I pointed out the sticker was missing when I picked up my car.

I believe the two TSBs you are citing are interrelated and NO FIX is yet available.

I have a theory that depending on the variables (i.e. SoC prior to a scheduled charge, the next departure time setting, and type of EVSE being used), the charge will either start way earlier than expected or not charge at all. This is fundamentally the MAIN issue with charging, which stems from the FACT that Toyota seems to think and has even stated in one of its TSBs, that it is actually "normal" for the car to start charging up to several hours early than anticipated by the center console scheduler. In other words, that is to say this "much earlier" than expected scheduled charging behavior is intentional, and this is essentially a guarantee the charge will complete before the scheduled departure time.

This sounds like a bunch of double talk to me!

It is plausible that Toyota simply does not know how to fix the real issue with scheduled charging within its own product, the RAV4 EV.

One only has to have experience with one of Toyota's EV competitors (in my case that would be my Chevy Volt) to know that scheduled charging and a preset departure time have a very closely controlled (and logical) relationship. The RAV4 EV inexplicably most definitely does not!

It may also be true that Toyota just does not truly understand the concept of "scheduled charging", and its importance with respect to TOU electricity rates. Either that, or the resolution to this problem resides within the firmware designed by and solely controlled by Tesla. It may also be true that for the past year, such a poor working relationship exists between these two companies, that all that has been going on since the RAV4 EV's introduction is a bunch of "finger pointing". Thus, neither has seen fit to assign the proper S/W Engineering resources to "work together" to effectively resolve this problem with explicit intent of meeting customer expectations.

 

[crxpilot]

On both mine and my wifes RAV4 EVs, they are both programmed to be charged by 6 am. Entunes always schedules to be done by 540 am and I get charge complete emails within +/- 3-4 minutes of that time constantly. Guess we have been lucky!

 

[fooljoe]

On both mine and my wifes RAV4 EVs, they are both programmed to be charged by 6 am. Entunes always schedules to be done by 540 am and I get charge complete emails within +/- 3-4 minutes of that time constantly. Guess we have been lucky!

That's very interesting. Unless your cars behave differently from all the other Ravs I know about, which is highly doubtful, it's extremely unlikely that they could correctly guess how long it'll take to charge (by the way Entune has nothing to do with this - it's all on-board the car), and so start charging at the right time.

This is because the Rav doesn't sample the line voltage when you plug it in on timer mode, as other EVs like the Leaf do. All it knows is the amperage available, from the EVSE's pilot signal, and from that it assumes you're on L1 if your amperage is <= 20 and L2 otherwise. But L2 can mean anything from ~200-277 volts, and without a direct measurement the Rav's approach is apparently to guess on the very conservative side, which leads to charges starting way early for most people.

For example, I know from RavCharge that right now my car is sitting at 44% charge, and with my 230v/40a supply it'll take about 160 minutes to charge. But the car only knows the 40a part of the equation, and it's planning on starting the charge at 2:23am, and completing it at 6:40am - so the car thinks the charge will take 257 minutes. If you assume the car can correctly read the 40a pilot signal, then you have to conclude that it's assuming a ridiculously low 143 volts available!

With that in mind, I'm really curious to know what your voltage is while charging. Can you measure that and report back? The only way I can imagine that your charges are completing near the planned departure time (-20 minutes) is if your voltage is in the same range as the car's assumed voltage. But if your voltage really is that low I'm not sure how "lucky" you are, as that could be indicative of a potentially serious problem with your supply.

 

[Dsinned]

On both mine and my wifes RAV4 EVs, they are both programmed to be charged by 6 am. Entunes always schedules to be done by 540 am and I get charge complete emails within +/- 3-4 minutes of that time constantly. Guess we have been lucky!

Lucky INDEED!!!

Is it possible that Toyota may have introduced a running production change that fixes 2013 RAV4 EVs, that your two cars had done by the factory, but all other car produced before yours do not??? I noticed your VIN numbers have relatively recent serial numbers, thus they must have come off the assembly line in recent months. I would really like to know what the Calibration ID is for your Tesla made Gateway Control Logic Module installed inside the driver's side cargo area rear panel cover. Perhaps it says on the case cover of that module, if it is visible without disturbing the module while still connected to the car. Or, possibly you may find the calibration ID sticker under the hood near the rear edge. The last know ID that Toyota has been calling the "latest firmware update" is numbered as 1.3.62, but that has since been determined to NOT FIX this problem.

 

[crxpilot]

On both mine and my wifes RAV4 EVs, they are both programmed to be charged by 6 am. Entunes always schedules to be done by 540 am and I get charge complete emails within +/- 3-4 minutes of that time constantly. Guess we have been lucky!

Lucky INDEED!!!

Is it possible that Toyota may have introduced a running production change that fixes 2013 RAV4 EVs, that your two cars had done by the factory, but all other car produced before yours do not??? I noticed your VIN numbers have relatively recent serial numbers, thus they must have come off the assembly line in recent months. I would really like to know what the Calibration ID is for your Tesla made Gateway Control Logic Module installed inside the driver's side cargo area rear panel cover. Perhaps it says on the case cover of that module, if it is visible without disturbing the module while still connected to the car. Or, possibly you may find the calibration ID sticker under the hood near the rear edge. The last know ID that Toyota has been calling the "latest firmware update" is numbered as 1.3.62, but that has since been determined to NOT FIX this problem.

I will take a look at that and get back to you. I suspect it probably has more to do with our useage. We usually only use 2-3 bars at a time between charges.

 

[Dianne]

I just had 4 cars held back at the plant, all 2013's ... while I had 14's raining in on me like crazy.
My gut feeling is that these Tesla parts that were a problem must be related to each car's VIN# and thus cannot be swapped from car to car. I sense that these 4 cars still coming (the 2013's) were probably held back to make sure they had the stamp of perfection.

 

[fooljoe]

I suspect it probably has more to do with our useage. We usually only use 2-3 bars at a time between charges.

Or, more likely, there's some lag between when your charges actually complete and the timestamp on the email notification from Entune. I looked over the RavCharge logs from when you and your wife were beta testing and it looks like your cars' internal timers behaved just like everybody else's, starting charges way early... Do you mind if I do some logging of your charges going forward, to see if anything has since changed in your timers' behavior?

 

[swampy rav4ev]

Has anyone specifically got the following 2 TSB's applied to their car to resolve the issues it claims to solve?

T-TT-0248-13 - Charging starts earlier than displayed on radio screen
TSB-0082-13 REV1 - Charge schedule function inoperative intermittently.

I am going to ask the Toyota service folks to apply above 2 fixes if it actually works.

The first one is a "Tech Tip" document, not a fix that can be applied. It's telling the customer that early charging is the expected behavior. "It's a feature, not a bug".

I never experienced the problems fixed in the second one, TSB-0082-13 REV1. It is mostly fixing problems when the EVSE loses power, or other EVSE compatibility problems. It specifically says that it does NOT fix the 31st bug.

Dealer (Toyota Marin) applied TSB 0082-13 "multi information display software update" to our RAV4EV after we had 4 instances of vehicle uncharged in the morning when set for scheduled overnight charge. Hasn't repeated in the three weeks we've had the car back but then again it was very intermittent.

 

[arnolddeleon]

I was surprised that my RAV4-EV timer charged yesterday (a 31st of a month).

arnold