ALL POSTS about Charge Timer Failure

[arnolddeleon]

FWIW my car charged 7/31/2014 and 8/1/2014 successfully.

This is with a depart time set (for around 9:00 am, I would need to look at the car to be sure). I plugged the car in on the 30th and charged the morning of the 31st, starting 4:29 am PDT finishing at around 6:40 am PDT. At a 8:12 am PDT it started the small power draw event, 200 to 400 watts (did we ever figure out what this was? balancing? pre-heating/cooling?) and finished that at about 8:37 am PDT

I haven't looked at what version of the software I have but AFAIK it is current (Toyota of Palo Alto seems to do decent job).

arnold

 

[michael]

Hi all....new RAV4 EV Driver

Looking at this thread, it seems that there was originally a ton of problem with the charge timer, but that it's been mostly worked out EXCEPT that charges scheduled for the 31'st of any month don't happen.

Am I right so far? Apart from this is it seeming reliable?


Secondly, can you tell me if the charger timer calculator is smart enough to compensate for 1) extended range charge, and 2) a 30 Amp EVSE?

Thirdly, I also have a 15 Amp 220 V EVSE (Aerovironment Turbo Cord). According to one poster, the car will see only the 15 Amp pilot and assume this is a 110 V Level 1 EVSE and thus start charging way soon. Is this correct?

Presently I've got it scheduled for 5 AM departure even though I don't actually go til 7 AM. Is this adequate margin? Too much? I frequently use extended charge, and I have a 30 Amp EVSE



Thanks in advance

 

[smkettner]

Yes you have it about right.

Yes, the timer will start charging earlier to compensate for ER charge.
Yes, the charging will adjust for 30 amp as that is what I charge with and I have observed the adjustments.

EDIT: At lower charge rates Rav assumes you are at L1, 120 volts to start the charging as early as possible.

Charge time estimate is conservative. You can set the vehicle for 8 am and it will be charged by 7 am. I extend my time out as needed so charging starts after midnight for lowest electric rates.

You can easily observe the charge time estimates, start time etc immediately after turning off the vehicle. But you need to read and move fairly quick. Turn off the vehicle, observe the default (L1 & L2 40 amp) start times. Quickly plug in and get back in the car and you will see the start time adjustment based on the actual power source. Then you can use the menu to choose ER charge or adjust the departure time. After adjustment it will display the new start time. Entunes can send an email of the actual start/stop to confirm. A couple days of this and you will be an expert.

 

[michael]

Thank you so much

And I take it it's reliable now? Still a 31'st of the month problem or is that fixed??

 

[miimura]

The 31st bug has been fixed. The timer still starts way too early though and I believe fooljoe has verified through RavCharge that the pilot signals less than 20A are registered in the timer calculations as 120V. So, the TurboCord may be completely useless for in-vehicle timer control. I successfully used RavCharge before with only a single weekend vehicle timer event. This may be the necessary strategy to do Off-Peak charging with the TurboCord. Let me know if this needs more explanation.

 

[fooljoe]

Some of smkettner's post is incorrect. The car still assumes any pilot signal <= 20 amps is coming from a 120v EVSE, so your charges will start way way early with the TurboCord. And the 31st bug thing is the one thing that I thought they actually did fix, but apparently it's still affecting some people (perhaps they didn't get the latest software updates.)

The larger issue is the car's calculated time to charge is very conservative, and the deeper of a discharge you start with the more conservative it will be (it seems to think 240v charging stations are actually 140v.) You can partially compensate for this by setting your departure timer much later than you actually want your charges to complete, but then you might have some "shallower" charges finishing after the end of your window. Make the departure timer not quite so late, and then "deeper" and extended charges will start before the beginning of your window.

So basically you're stuck having to check the screen each time you plug in to make sure the charge will start when you want it to, or you can just leave your departure timer set late and use RavCharge to start your charges when you want them to start.

 

[Dsinned]

Much of smkettner's post is incorrect. The car still assumes any pilot signal <= 20 amps is coming from a 120v EVSE, so your charges will start way way early with the TurboCord. And the 31st bug thing is the one thing that I thought they actually did fix, but apparently it's still affecting some people (perhaps they didn't get the latest software updates.)

The larger issue is the car's calculated time to charge is very conservative, and the deeper of a discharge you start with the more conservative it will be (it seems to think 240v charging stations are actually 140v.) You can partially compensate for this by setting your departure timer much later than you actually want your charges to complete, but then you might have some "shallower" charges finishing after the end of your window. Make the departure timer not quite so late, and then "deeper" and extended charges will start before the beginning of your window.

So basically you're stuck having to check the screen each time you plug in to make sure the charge will start when you want it to, or you can just leave your departure timer set late and use RavCharge to start your charges when you want them to start.

I believe fooljoe has summed it up quite well. The thing so exacerbating about all this is the difficulty in simply trying to avoid paying higher electric rates because the scheduler/timer built into the car behaves so illogically and unpredictable. All I want to do, while at home sleeping in bed, is NOT start charging before midnight AND finish by 7am. That is a full seven hour window in which to complete the charge; way more than enough for a standard charge and most likely even an extended charges as well.

My Chevy VOLT never fails to initiate a scheduled charge at midnight and does this absolutely flawlessly EVERYTIME using my L2 EVSE (outputting at 14A). However, while doing a scheduled charge to my RAV4 (at 32A from exactly the same EVSE), depending on the starting SoC, it often starts BEFORE midnight, where the deeper the SoC is, the earlier in time the charge will initiate. Toyota (Tesla?) says this in "normal" behavior to insure the charge completes before the scheduled departure time, but when the departure time is 7am and the charge completed somewhere around 3am, that means it started 4 hours too soon.

The main benefit of "scheduled charging" is to automatically contain charging to an off peak electric rate period window, typically no earlier than midnight or later than 6am! Toyota has essentially defined the only purpose of scheduled charging is to GUARANTEE completion prior to a preset departure time not bound by any start/stop window at all; illogically and totally unnecessarily assuming use of only slower charging EVSEs.

Toyota obviously did not consult with any prospective EV buyers before implementing their automated charging strategy! :roll:

 

[miimura]

...the car behaves so illogically and unpredictable.

This is the only part is disagree with. The car is not unpredictable, it very reliably and systematically calculates the starting time incorrectly!

 

[smkettner]

My RAV starts within 2 minutes of the scheduled time. I have a six hour window and find it is very easy to hit. Mostly scheduled departure is one hour after TOU cut off. This seems to cover just fine until I get to the bottom 25% or lower then I extend the departure time. Most days no adjustment. Seven hour window would be even easier to hit. Especially if you have a 40a evse.

 

[fooljoe]

My RAV starts within 2 minutes of the scheduled time. I have a six hour window and find it is very easy to hit. Mostly scheduled departure is one hour after TOU cut off. This seems to cover just fine until I get to the bottom 25% or lower then I extend the departure time. Most days no adjustment. Seven hour window would be even easier to hit. Especially if you have a 40a evse.

Yup, the Rav will always start charging at the time it indicates on the dash after plugging in (unless of course it just doesn't charge at all for whatever reason.) But of course most would soon tire of doing this check each time they plug in their car.

And yes, if you have a very predictable driving routine so that you're always starting your charges from a similar level of charge, then you can do a little trial and error to determine what departure time works for you. But you're almost guaranteed to get stung every once in a while when you drive a lot one day or decide to do an extended charge and forget to adjust your departure time accordingly.

And yes, the more power your EVSE can deliver, the more likely you'll be able to keep your charging in the desired window using the car's timer alone. The error in the car's calculated time to charge is roughly 70% of the actual time to charge, so if you have a more powerful EVSE that actual time to charge, and therefore the error, will be less.

Like you, I figured out a good departure time that worked well with my commute, and was fine for a couple months. But then my car decided not to charge the night before I was all set to make a 120 mile drive to Indian Wells for Labor Day weekend (it was August 31.) After that I said "screw this" and developed RavCharge!

 

[michael]

Need a little guidance.

My goal here is to complete charging reasonably close to my actual go time because I need to use extended charge most days and want to reduce the amount of time the car spends at full charge.

I set the in-dash timer for a go time of 7 AM. According to the emails I received from Entune, charging began at 10:44 PM and ended at 3:21 AM. I take it the 3 1/2 hour difference is reasonably in line with the conservative design of the timer software. My intention is to set the go-time progressively later until I see maybe 1 or 2 hours between charge completion and my actual 7 AM go time.

Am I right so far? I think this will be OK unless advised otherwise.

But in addition, as winter approaches I will want climate to precondition the car near my actual go-time. So my thought is to set a second, climate only go-time of 7 AM.

So for each day, I will program a 7 AM climate go-time, and an (approximately) 9 AM charge-complete go-time (which is intended to complete charging by maybe 6 AM).

This seem reasonable? Any better suggestions??

 

[TonyWilliams]

So for each day, I will program a 7 AM climate go-time, and an (approximately) 9 AM charge-complete go-time (which is intended to complete charging by maybe 6 AM).

This seem reasonable? Any better suggestions??

That's what I do.

 

[michael]

Good enough for me then!

Thanks

 

[Dsinned]

Don't use the charge timer in the car. Use RAVCHARGE instead. RAVCHARGE can be relied upon to actually start charging when scheduled,

 

[fooljoe]

I set the in-dash timer for a go time of 7 AM. According to the emails I received from Entune, charging began at 10:44 PM and ended at 3:21 AM. I take it the 3 1/2 hour difference is reasonably in line with the conservative design of the timer software. My intention is to set the go-time progressively later until I see maybe 1 or 2 hours between charge completion and my actual 7 AM go time.

How conservative the charge timer is depends on what level of charge you're starting with, as well as whether you're doing an extended or normal charge. Do you always start from around the same SOC, or does it jump around a lot?

 

[michael]

Jumps around. And sometimes extended charge, sometimes normal.

 

[boredcleaner]

I'm in agreement with Dsinned, use RAVCharge for reliable start timing.

It would be pretty sweet if fooljoe were able to work out a solution similar to the built-in timer function that calculated actual charge start times (based on selection of charge rate, SOC, and departure time) and picked the worst-case time to start the charge. Perhaps the app could send an alert email to inform the user if the calculated time to start charge is earlier than the pre-set time?

 

[fooljoe]

I'm in agreement with Dsinned, use RAVCharge for reliable start timing.

It would be pretty sweet if fooljoe were able to work out a solution similar to the built-in timer function that calculated actual charge start times (based on selection of charge rate, SOC, and departure time) and picked the worst-case time to start the charge. Perhaps the app could send an alert email to inform the user if the calculated time to start charge is earlier than the pre-set time?

Working on it.

 

[michael]

So for each day, I will program a 7 AM climate go-time, and an (approximately) 9 AM charge-complete go-time (which is intended to complete charging by maybe 6 AM).

This seem reasonable? Any better suggestions??

That's what I do.

So I tried that, and guess what...it doesn't work!

Set the charge timer for 10, which normally allows charge completion at 6.

Set the climate timer for 7


Entune showed "next event' as the climate at 7. The built-in timer wasn't smart enough to look at the 10 o'clock charge completion and realize that it needed to start around 2.

From now on I'll use the charge timer for controlling the charge and start the climate manually. I'm resisting using Rav charge because as best I understand it (please correct me if I'm wrong) it doesn't yet adjust the start time based on the amount of charge needed. The built in charge timer does this somewhat, although certainly not well.

 

[miimura]

So for each day, I will program a 7 AM climate go-time, and an (approximately) 9 AM charge-complete go-time (which is intended to complete charging by maybe 6 AM).

This seem reasonable? Any better suggestions??

That's what I do.

So I tried that, and guess what...it doesn't work!

Set the charge timer for 10, which normally allows charge completion at 6.

Set the climate timer for 7


Entune showed "next event' as the climate at 7. The built-in timer wasn't smart enough to look at the 10 o'clock charge completion and realize that it needed to start around 2.

From now on I'll use the charge timer for controlling the charge and start the climate manually. I'm resisting using Rav charge because as best I understand it (please correct me if I'm wrong) it doesn't yet adjust the start time based on the amount of charge needed. The built in charge timer does this somewhat, although certainly not well.

Why do you want the start time to change based on charge needed? I would prefer the car to always start charging at a fixed time - that is what Ravcharge does. Ravcharge also has a new feature called "Early Charge Protection" that will check to see when it thinks the car will start charging. If it finds that it will likely start before your allowed start time, it will push out the departure time in the car timer through Entune. I have not tried this feature because I have a 40A station in my garage.