ALL POSTS about Charge Timer Failure

[miimura]

We have no leverage

Nope! If you bought, Toyota can count it towards CARB-ZEV credits. Mission Accomplished :!:

Even cars that get Lemon Law'd, or bought-back so that the title doesn't have to reflect a Lemon Law car, still get the credits that Toyota wants and needs.

Lease returns? I won't be surprised if they just crush them.

Isn't there a parking lot somewhere in Torrance with a bunch of first gen RAV4 EVs just sitting there?

 

[Khaihon]

There's a parking lot on Van Ness Avenue & Toyota Way next to the Toyota Museum (with a free public L2 Chargepoint Charger) where there's a stack of CURRENT Rav4EVs though.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Another charge timer failure last night. Any ideas why? Moon phase? Magnetic disturbance?

 

[Ntd]

I thought the reason that my car started charging at 10 pm was the fact that I had 7 miles on the GOM, but I guess it was a malfunction. I unplugged it, then replugged it, then it started charging again at 10:20 pm and finished charging around 2:30 am. My departure time was set at 6:50 am.

 

[fooljoe]

I thought the reason that my car started charging at 10 pm was the fact that I had 7 miles on the GOM, but I guess it was a malfunction. I unplugged it, then replugged it, then it started charging again at 10:20 pm. My departure time was set at 6:50 am.

What EVSE do you use? That doesn't really sound like a malfunction, just the usual overestimation of the time it takes to charge.

Another charge timer failure last night. Any ideas why? Moon phase? Magnetic disturbance?

Ha, my charge went nominally this morning, so it wasn't something ubiquitous like the 31st bug. Did you charge on 120v yesterday?

 

[Ntd]

I use the 30 amp Aerovironment from the state. I never used the 120v. Initially, I thought it was just another overestimation because my GOM was pretty low. If this is recurrent, I think I will have to change my departure time to 8 when my GOM is low.

 

[fooljoe]

Since you have a 30a EVSE it makes perfect sense then for the car to start when it did. To do a little math, I have a 40a EVSE, used only 4 bars yesterday, and set a 7am departure time. The car started charging at 4.07am. Now we know the car actually targets 20 minutes before your departure time, so that means it planned 2.55 hours for my charge. The charge actually took 1.55 hours, so the car overestimated by 165%.

Since you had to replace 4x the charge as me and your EVSE is 1.33 times slower, we should (very roughly) expect your charge to take 5.33 times as long, or 8.27 hours, which means for once the car's estimate wasn't really that bad. If it overshot by the same percentage as it did mine then it might've started charging at 5pm!

When did your charge actually complete, anyway?

 

[Ntd]

Finished charging at 2:30 am which seems like a very big overestimation for a 6:50 am departure time.

I previously saw a reference article on batteries but cannot find it now. Can anyone suggest an article? Technical is ok but not full of equations. Thanks. This forum is great! Learning a lot.

 

[fooljoe]

Finished charging at 2:30 am which seems like a very big overestimation for a 6:50 am departure time.

I previously saw a reference article on batteries but cannot find it now. Can anyone suggest an article? Technical is ok but not full of equations. Thanks. This forum is great! Learning a lot.

Ok in that case my 4x the charge to replace was a big overestimate - I guess I had a "low" 4 bars down (maybe it was 5, come to think of it) and you had a "big" 7 miles on the GOM - I've never been down in that territory so I don't know how much of a reserve the Rav keeps. Also the charge tapering off near the end could explain some of it.

I'm not sure what kind of reference you're looking for, but starting at wikipedia usually works well enough.

 

[Dsinned]

The "workaround" for some of this so-called "overestimation" is to always try to recharge BEFORE the GoM drops too low on the gauge. Probably a minimum of about 40 miles of range remaining is a good rule of thumb.

What is really going on here is that the RAV4 EV battery charge scheduler must know that after each (bulk) recharge there is an idle period of several hours followed by a short cell balancing charge with a duration of ~30 minutes. This when, and only when "the recharge" appears to be considered fully completed, not as one might expect after bulk charging merely ends several hours earlier.

Another potential workaround is to schedule your departure several hours later as someone posted above, but I still recommend not letting your old charge drop the GoM into the lower range of the gauge.

The ACTUAL problem as I see it is the seemingly unnecessary time delay (or waste of time) between the bulk charge and the cell balancing charge. I do not see any good technical reason for this delay. Also, as others have speculated, the RAV4 EV does not seem to properly identify the type of EVSE (whether if be 120 or 240V, or what amperage its capable of providing) that is performing the charge in the first place. Thus, it cannot accurately predict the length of time needed to perform a bulk recharge.

I can't imagine why any of these sort of anomalies can't be expeditiously resolved in the "executive" code by a competent S/W Engineer, but after all this time and several hundred cars sold plaguing all their owners, it looks like Toyota (Tesla?) does not consider this much of a priority to ever fix. :roll:

 

[TonyWilliams]

Another charge timer failure last night. Any ideas why? Moon phase? Magnetic disturbance?

Ha, my charge went nominally this morning, so it wasn't something ubiquitous like the 31st bug. Did you charge on 120v yesterday?

I have used 120 volts within the past week, since I tested several UMCs at both 120v and 240v.

But, it charged on the timer just fine until today. I did a timer override with the asinine method of turning the car on, then off to get the soft-button to "charge immediately". Boy oh boy, did Nissan get this one right on the LEAF!!!!

I've ran out of ideas. My Lemon Law arbitration is Oct 1.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I previously saw a reference article on batteries but cannot find it now. Can anyone suggest an article? Technical is ok but not full of equations. Thanks. This forum is great! Learning a lot.

http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=300#p300

 

[fooljoe]

Any and all with charge timer issues are welcome to try RavCharge, my new app that allows for an entune-based start timer, among other things.

 

[eschatfische]

It looks like hell may have froze over.

I took my RAV4 EV in this morning for its 5000 mile service (a little late, as we're now over 6500 miles), was discussing the maintenance with the service advisor, asked him to make sure that all software was brought up to date, and lo and behold, completely unprompted, he mentioned that there was a fix for the "31st of the month" bug in the firmware they'd be installing.

A few hours later, I received a follow-up message from Kevin Spillane at Toyota in response to a message I had sent last week to check in on the status of the "31st of the month" bug - and he too indicated that firmware was now available that would resolve this issue.

Alas, a specific firmware revision was not present in the service record nor written on a sticker under my hood, so I'll have to take their word for it - I wish I had some more specific information to pass on. That said, I'm certainly looking forward to waking up on the 31st and seeing if it has, indeed, charged.

 

[Dsinned]

Unless the F/W update is related to the electronics on the Tesla side of the car, I believe there is a way to find out the F/W version installed via the center console menu commands. Off hand I don't remember the sequence of commands, but I know it can be determined without visiting the dealership. Anyone here know how to look it up on the center console?

 

[eschatfische]

I looked at the version numbers available via the touchscreen before and after the service, but they remained unchanged. I think those numbers may ultimately only be for the navigation system and bluetooth.

The service notes indicated the update was done via TSB 0050-13, which my understanding is the bulletin on how to perform a software update on the ECU. I think it's entirely possible that the logic for when to wake up and charge is stored on the Tesla side, so I still think there's hope. We'll see on the 31st!

 

[Braxus]

If you need to check the firmware on the car, follow the steps in this guide:

T-SB-0082-13

There seems to be at least one firmware update after the one mentioned in the TSB above.

 

[Dsinned]

Thanks Braxus for the TSB link.

According to that, my firmware must be out of date. The update I had my servicing dealer install last March was version VB503102. The TSB update (referenced in the above link) was dated July 1, 2013 for version VB503150, but that one specifically excluded a fix for the "31st of the month" issue. Thus, there must be a newer update available.

Eschatfische, please recheck your center console per the procedure given in the above link and tell us what version is currently installed in your car. TIA.

I'm coming up on the first year anniversary of my car, so I will be sure to ask for the latest update the next time I go to the dealer.

***UPDATE***

I just did some online research looking for the history of TSBs for our cars. I found a good one that lists any and ALL TSBs at a PAID subscription website here:

https://www.eautorepair.net/app/TSBS_ALL.asp?S0=16384&S1=8388608&SG=NewUser&YR=2012&MK=173&MD=1554&SM=6034&AG=B00540230&MKN=Toyota&MDN=RAV4+EV&PS=8388608&MA=15

I subscribed but cannot post the details of the TSBs pertinent to our car due to the EULA on that site. However, I will mention that the earlier TSB from last March (T-SB-0050-13) was superceded by another TSB of the same number, known as "REV1". This TSB was reissued on July 29th.

In this TSB the firmware in the EV Gateway Control ECU (i.e. the Tesla electronic control module mounted in the left rear side wall inside the car) has been recalibrated. The new calibration ID is known as "1.3.62". You can verify if your car has this update by looking for a little label sticker on the rear edge underside of the hood. If you have a sticker, just verify that it has this calibration ID number. If there is no sticker, than your car's EV Gateway Control ECU may not have been updated yet.

I suspect this "update" actually came from Tesla, although only an authorized Toyota service center (with a Techstream 2.0) can make the update under warranty. Being this update affects the Tesla electronics, it "should" include a far better technical fix for our various scheduled charging problems.

I'm having my one year service performed on my car in a few weeks, so I will report back in November on the status of this update and how effective it is in resolving any and all charging issues on my 2012 RAV4 EV.

Stay tuned . . .

 

[miimura]

My car has failed to charge by the vehicle timer two nights in a row. The first night it gave the familiar (to me) Charging Stopped by System Malfunction error early in the evening. I let it go to see if it would charge or not since sometime it does. Last night it silently did nothing - no emails from Entune at all and no charging. The lights did blink when I plugged in. The car has only failed to charge 2 or 3 times in 6 months before this week. I only used RavCharge for a few weeks before I stopped so I could document the actual behavior of the car by itself.

Coincidentally, my 5,000 mile service was scheduled for today. We'll see if any updates help the situation.

 

[Dsinned]

Miimura, be sure to have your dealer install the (Tesla) EV Gateway ECU firmware update, and before you pick up your car to leave, look for the calibration ID sticker under you hood. It should say the calibration ID is "1.3.62". When I got my update Saturday before last, the dealer did NOT apply this sticker, so I am not sure I got the update or not, although that is specifically what I wanted. :roll:

From the other thread on Ravcharge, you probably know I already tried a scheduled extended charge this past Sunday night (w/o Ravcharge). Although it did work, unfortunately, it still did not meet my expectations. Please advise how your update goes. TIA.