Time to complain! My list of Rav4 EV shortcomings.

[Blastphemy]

Let me preface the following by saying how much I love the Rav4 EV. Especially now with all the amazing incentives, anyone who buys a Leaf or any other BEV (battery electric vehicle) over the Rav4 EV is crazy, IMHO.

On to my complaints (or, more constructively, my "suggestions" for improving the Rav4 EV). Of course, this could be an exercise in futility if Toyota has no plans to improve the car over its 3-year compliance lifecycle; but let's be optimistic that the 2014 Rav4 EV will be better than then 2012.

In No Particular Order:

- No tire pressure monitor.

- When turning on the radio from completely off (i.e., not just mute), it chooses the first FM station in the list, not the last station to which you were listening.

- No memory settings for the side mirrors.

- No power seats with memory.

- Radio controls are awful! No easy way to change stations, and no way to keep the Radio screen on all the time.

- Power button for the radio should be a hard button below the LCD screen (like the "Home" button), not a button on the LCD that requires pressing the Home button first.

- No 4WD...it's a RAV4, not a RAV2!

- Headrest doesn't lock in lower position.

- Scheduled charging doesn't work properly.

- Have to take the car in to a dealership to turn off 'reverse beeping' and 'no seatbelt' beeping, and to adjust 'headlight off' timer and auto door lock/unlock functionality.

- No external reverse beeping noise (like some large SUVs) or courtesy "look out!" mini-honk button (like the Volt).

- No backlighting on the steering wheel, making it impossible to see the buttons at night.

- Can't have two Entune-registered iPhones in the car at the same time - it messes up all the apps and the car gets very confused.

- When using an iPhone that has three or more phone numbers assigned to individual contacts (i.e., "home," "mobile," "work," "fax," etc.), the car can't seem to differentiate between phone numbers when dialing by voice command. For example, I have my sister's contact info in the phone, and when I say, "call Amy Fowler mobile," the car says, "if the name is correct, please say, 'yes', otherwise say '1' ", but my car lists both choices as "Amy Fowler" with no indication what the associated number for each is, and that correct name/number combination isn't consistently the first choice. However, when I call my dad (who has four phone numbers in my contacts), the car never has a problem when I say, "call Sheldon Cooper mobile."

- If I don't drive the Rav4EV for a couple of weeks, the 12-volt battery dies and the car won't start, even if the main battery is fully charged.

- No fast charging. (It is a Tesla battery, right? Why no compatibility?)

- The charging door interior doesn't light up when opened, making it difficult to align the charger in the dark.

- No way to force the brightness of the screen to night or day mode regardless of exterior light conditions. I can set it so it's dark at night and bright during the day, but manually turning on the headlights should change the car to night mode (or there should be another way to do that).

- The sun visor doesn't rotate easily and doesn't block the sun for the entire length of the side window.

- The horn sounds like an antique car. No one will ever take that wimpy, laughable sound seriously. It needs to be replaced with a REAL horn!

 

[yblaser]

Agree with most of your criticisms. On the radio front, there is a toggle under the general settings that will keep the radio screen on all the time as opposed to timing out back to whatever screen you were on before. The other thing I didn't realize at first was that you can hold down the steering wheel control to actually tune the radio as opposed to cycling through the presets. Also, I haven't tried it myself, but someone else on the forum pointed out that holding down the home button turns off the radio.

 

[Dsinned]

You forgot one . . . Don't sell the next new and improved model RAV4 EV for $10,000 more than it will actually sell for just a few months after introduction!

 

[TonyWilliams]

When backing up, the backup camera dutifully reports when my iPhone is connected, blocking the top portion of the screen, and limiting how far back I can see.

Probably the worst time for that piece of info, particularly when it won't let you do anything else while backing.

Plus, no guidelines like Nissan / Infiniti uses. Those work very well and are adjustable.

Finally, the backup camera isn't centered, making it interesting for lining things up like my trailer hitch to the trailer.

 

[abasile]

You forgot one . . . Don't sell the next new and improved model RAV4 EV for $10,000 more than it will actually sell for just a few months after introduction!

Maybe it's my fault. When I test drove a prototype RAV4 EV in November 2011, I asked a couple of seasoned Toyota employees, "How much are you going to sell this for? $50K?". :lol:

$50K might have worked for Toyota if only they had beaten the Tesla S to market and the most recent LEAF discounts...

 

[jspearman]

Great list, Blastphemy.

My biggest beef besides the charge timing issue is the crappy interface radio interface. It's just terrible, as if they assigned an intern to design it for them. In the age of iPads and smart phones, there is absolutely no excuse for such lousy design. If they can't design it themselves, then open up the API and let folks design apps for the job--an outside designer couldn't possibly do worse, and I would gladly pay someone a fee for a better experience, plus I want a clean Slacker interface, as I think XM sucks.

As ugly as the Volt interface is, with it's garish colors and clunky design, it's useful and reasonably easy to navigate, and the physical dials are quite useful. I remember the first touch interface I saw in a car, the Buick Reatta from the eighties, and I can't say Toyota has done much better. All I can say is, thank god Tesla let them put their drivetrain in this car!

 

[cwerdna]

- No tire pressure monitor.

Re: that, I have no Rav4 EV, but I think it's got to have it. They became mandated (in one form or another) years ago, I believe w/model year 2007. It just might not have anything to display the tire pressures, only to provide a warning.

 

[pchilds]

How about a hatch, not a back door that opens up into traffic.

 

[TonyWilliams]

How about a hatch, not a back door that opens up into traffic.

Just buy the 2013 Rav4, and swap the drivetrains.

It has a hatch.

 

[Kohler Controller]

Re: Fast charging. Just like the entry level Tesla Model S with 40kWh battery pack, neither have fast charging capability because the batteries cannot take fast charging. Apparently they have determined that the fastest charge rate the cells can take is a 45-60 min rate. For instance, having a 85kWh pack (actually >90kWh), charging with a 90KW fast charger, charges the battery at a 1C rate, or 1 hour rate. The 60kWh pack (actual >66kWh), charging at 90kW charges at a 40 minute rate (1.5C rate). Charging our packs (or the 40kWh Model S) would mean a 2C rate (30 minutes) which probably damages the batteries cycle life, which would be unacceptable. This could be solved by having the fast chargers automatically detect the size of the pack (easily done through communications) and limit the amount of power it puts out (40-60kW max for smaller packs), but this would also require the new fast charging SAE plug that is currently only being used GM Spark EV. At the time the RAV4EV was being designed, the SAE dual fast charging connector and Tesla Fast Charging Network was still in the process of being deployed, so it was easier to just shelve fast charging design issues for this small run of vehicles. At least they put a large 240VAC charger on board, unlike the Leaf and Spark EV.

 

[Bassman]

Agree with pretty much everything plus two more:
The backup camera should have lines showing where the car is going just like the backup camera in my LEAF! And it would be nice if you could completely stop outside air from coming into through the vents when the Heater/AC are off.

 

[shikataganai]

- No 4WD...it's a RAV4, not a RAV2!

Good point. Long live the RAV2!

- No external reverse beeping noise (like some large SUVs) or courtesy "look out!" mini-honk button (like the Volt).

Which large conventional SUVs have this? I've driven my fair share of them and never have heard an external backup buzzer except on the F-350s one can rent from Home Depot.

- If I don't drive the Rav4EV for a couple of weeks, the 12-volt battery dies and the car won't start, even if the main battery is fully charged.

This happens with conventional vehicles, too. Buck up and buy a battery tender for the 12V system if you truly don't drive it for a few weeks at a stretch.

- No way to force the brightness of the screen to night or day mode regardless of exterior light conditions. I can set it so it's dark at night and bright during the day, but manually turning on the headlights should change the car to night mode (or there should be another way to do that).

Hmm. This could irritate me, as I run with headlights on 24/7 and manually change the dashboard brightness on my current vehicles.

- The horn sounds like an antique car. No one will ever take that wimpy, laughable sound seriously. It needs to be replaced with a REAL horn!

Replace it, as TonyWilliams has already done per his signature! New horns are cheap, and even if you have to add a relay the installation is pretty simple. 12V systems are 12V systems regardless of the main propulsion method of the vehicle.

- No fast charging. (It is a Tesla battery, right? Why no compatibility?)

Re: Fast charging. Just like the entry level Tesla Model S with 40kWh battery pack, neither have fast charging capability because the batteries cannot take fast charging.

I was going to post that the 40 kWh Model S (whenever it appears) won't have Supercharging ability, but you saved me the trouble.

At least they put a large 240VAC charger on board, unlike the Leaf and Spark EV.

Note that the 2013 Leaf SV and SL have a 6.6 kW (or 6.0, depending on who you trust) on-board charger now.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Re: Fast charging. Just like the entry level Tesla Model S with 40kWh battery pack, neither have fast charging capability because the batteries cannot take fast charging.

The batteries can take "fast charging", but Tesla doesn't offer it on the 40kWh battery car. Currently, the 85kWh pack on a Tesla is charged at about 1C, and about 2C on a LEAF (with a tiny 24kWh battery).

The 60kWh pack (actual >66kWh), charging at 90kW charges at a 40 minute rate (1.5C rate). Charging our packs (or the 40kWh Model S) would mean a 2C rate (30 minutes) which probably damages the batteries cycle life, which would be unacceptable.

News flash... you don't have any idea what rate a non-existent car might ask for. If Tesla determines they only want a 1C rate, the car will tell the charger to give it 1C. You're making an assumption that the charger can't be controlled, and that would be a bad assumption. Edit: I see you then argue exactly that... oh vey!

but this would also require the new fast charging SAE plug that is currently only being used GM Spark EV.

The SAE "Frankenplug" will be used by the Spark and BMW i3. Why on God's earth would you assume the Rav4 would require this, or any other charger? We're actually working on a CHAdeMO plug right now, since that's what's out there. I have no desire to chase the Frankenplug dream.

The primary difference between CHAdeMO and Frankenplug is the communications method. The former uses CAN bus signals, and the latter uses PLC.

At the time the RAV4EV was being designed, the SAE dual fast charging connector and Tesla Fast Charging Network was still in the process of being deployed, so it was easier to just shelve fast charging design issues for this small run of vehicles. At least they put a large 240VAC charger on board, unlike the Leaf and Spark EV.

Uh, there's a lot of imagination in your charger knowledge. :ugeek:

 

[Dsinned]

- No tire pressure monitor.

Re: that, I have no Rav4 EV, but I think it's got to have it. They became mandated (in one form or another) years ago, I believe w/model year 2007. It just might not have anything to display the tire pressures, only to provide a warning.

Yep! It's just an idiot light, but I quite agree, nowadays, there ***should be*** a digital readout of each tire accurate to within +/-1psi. For ANY car in this price range, a digital readout should be mandatory! This is a useful feature, and a very effective SAFETY feature at that!

 

[Kohler Controller]

Re: Fast charging. Just like the entry level Tesla Model S with 40kWh battery pack, neither have fast charging capability because the batteries cannot take fast charging.

The batteries can take "fast charging", but Tesla doesn't offer it on the 40kWh battery car.

Why do you think that the 18650 Panasonic cells can take "fast charging"? They were designed to accept a 2-5 hour charge rate. I assume Tesla thinks they can take an occasional 1 hour partial charge without much of a negative long term effect. Do you know why the 40kWh Tesla won't be Supercharger network capable?

 

[Blastphemy]

Also, I haven't tried it myself, but someone else on the forum pointed out that holding down the home button turns off the radio.

Holding down the Home button turns off the entire Infotainment system, not just the radio. That's a nuclear solution! Granted, pressing the Home button again after turning off the entire system will turn on everything but the radio, so this can be useful even though it's not perfect.

 

[yblaser]

One thing I noticed is that when you turn the car off the radio turns off as well. Most newer cars I've driven including the Volt keeps the radio on for some length of time after the car is turned off. The question I have is do you use any more power parked with the Rav4 on assuming no climate control and no use of the brakes or steering verse turning it off and then back on in accessory mode?

Regarding the 12V battery going dead, anyone know how much current is required to jump start the Rav4. Obviously you do not need to turn over a starter. I imagine you could build a very small jumper battery that can provide just enough power to initialize the computer and close the relay to start the car.

 

[cwerdna]

One thing I noticed is that when you turn the car off the radio turns off as well. Most newer cars I've driven including the Volt keeps the radio on for some length of time after the car is turned off.

I would say the bolded part is not true. The behavior you mention is a GM thing. I've seen it on many/most GM rentals. I've not observed on newer non-GM cars. Can you name any non-GM "newer cars" that do this?

 

[yblaser]

One thing I noticed is that when you turn the car off the radio turns off as well. Most newer cars I've driven including the Volt keeps the radio on for some length of time after the car is turned off.

I would say the bolded part is not true. The behavior you mention is a GM thing. I've seen it on many/most GM rentals. I've not observed on newer non-GM cars. Can you name any non-GM "newer cars" that do this?

Well of course the bold part is true as i said cars I've driven . My MINI has this feature. Most cars I have rented do as well, but they were all probably Ford or GM vehicles and maybe a few Kias. Nonetheless it was something I noticed and my question on power use remains.

 

[Blastphemy]

One thing I noticed is that when you turn the car off the radio turns off as well. Most newer cars I've driven including the Volt keeps the radio on for some length of time after the car is turned off.

I would say the bolded part is not true. The behavior you mention is a GM thing. I've seen it on many/most GM rentals. I've not observed on newer non-GM cars. Can you name any non-GM "newer cars" that do this?

This feature is on more than just GM cars. Foreign cars tend not to have power after shut-off while many American cars do. There are always exceptions to the rule in both cases. Japanese cars, for the most part, turn off everything - including the phone (if you're on a Bluetooth call it gets cut off), cell phone charging, and windows; but I think Lexus is an exception to that rule...not 100% sure, though.