The smallest Quick 240V from two 120V outlets?

[Khaihon]

LOWER THE TONE ON THIS FORUM. IT IS NOT THE Spark EV FORUM WHERE ABUSES ARE TOLERATED.

Love your signature on the SparkEV forum. Too bad the link doesn't work anymore. :lol:

 

[TonyWilliams]

LOWER THE TONE ON THIS FORUM. IT IS NOT THE Spark EV FORUM WHERE ABUSES ARE TOLERATED.

Love your signature on the SparkEV forum. Too bad the link doesn't work anymore. :lol:

Ya, they were going to "run me out of town" mostly for my not very flattering opinions of the Frankenplug used on the Spark EV.

I'm definitely not going to let this forum slip into ad hominems like that almost unmoderated forum.

 

[nsayer]

I believe my design is above any reasonable level of "oh my God, what are you doing?!" alarmism.

I'm involved in an argument over on the Nissan Leaf forum the tone of which is that it's in fact too conservative.

Whether the device as a category could be UL approved or not, I don't know. If I had the tens of thousands of dollars it would cost, I'd probably buy a Tesla with it instead.

And any design can be unsafe if it's poorly executed.

I made one of mine. I believe it's safe. I bristle at it being described as dangerous or foolish because other devices performing the same function could be (and likely have been) designed and/or built poorly.

As for the "temporary permanent" argument, the only reason I made one was for when we visit my parents' house. So, in fact, it really is temporary. At home, we had an electrician-installed properly rated dedicated 240 circuit installed exclusively for our EVSE. Which I designed and built completely by myself, thank you very much.

 

[buickanddeere]

I'm a retired firefighter and a 309A Industrial Electrician.
I have seen enough home brewed inventions go wrong . To be concerned for the safety of persons and property.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I'm a retired firefighter and a 309A Industrial Electrician.
I have seen enough home brewed inventions go wrong . To be concerned for the safety of persons and property.

I think we all appreciate the heartfelt concern. Thank you.

 

[nsayer]

I'm a retired firefighter and a 309A Industrial Electrician.
I have seen enough home brewed inventions go wrong . To be concerned for the safety of persons and property.

Fair enough, but with respect, as a firefighter, you don't see the ones that don't go wrong.

Just because it is done wrong does not make it impossible for it to be done correctly.

I invite anyone to inspect my work any time. If there's anything I've done wrong, I welcome corrections. In the last year, I have found and corrected shortcomings in my designs. I don't make any claims of infallibility.

But I respectfully demand that my work be judged without reference to other peoples' poor workmanship.

 

[buickanddeere]

Well.............I'm going to have to eat some crow here . The manufacture did somehow manage to obtain " UL (Underwriters Laboratories), CSA (Canadian Standards Association), and OSHA (United States Department of Labor, Occupational Safety and Health Administration.)" approval.
I spoke with the local electrical code inspector today and he's wondering too :?: , how the manufacture managed it but........The quick220 appears somehow to be legit.

 

[nsayer]

Well.............I'm going to have to eat some crow here . The manufacture did somehow manage to obtain " UL (Underwriters Laboratories), CSA (Canadian Standards Association), and OSHA (United States Department of Labor, Occupational Safety and Health Administration.)" approval.
I spoke with the local electrical code inspector today and he's wondering too :?: , how the manufacture managed it but........The quick220 appears somehow to be legit.

You do have to do it right, though. There are a bunch of potential traps that can make the concept of grabbing two opposite phase hots from NEMA 5-15s tricky to do safely.

 

[Khaihon]

buickanddeere,

It's great that you did some research regarding the Quick220. I've learned tons from the extremely technical (and non-technical) members of this forum. Hope one day, I can do something meaningful and contribute back to this great community. There's definitely a ton of innovation happening here, and I haven't read anything on this forum that would suggest anything dangerous without some serious disclaimer (like, YOU WILL DIE IF YOU TRY THIS) or other members calling out (as you did) and engaging in a meaningful discussion where everyone walks away wiser. That's why I love this place!

 

[Michael Bornstein]

I bought mine at a local electronics shop for a few bucks. Here's one at Newark that should work, neon light.

Herr Professor:

Built the system and it works fine ... except for one possible bug. Tried it out at a neighbors house and although my neon lit indication 240V present, the car only showed 120V. After some thought, I realized that one of my neighbors outlets was wired backwards with the hot going to the neutral plug. Thus, although both were on the same circuit, it did show 120V on the output

Two lessons here:

1. Boy am I glad that I didn't wire the two neutrals together in my device
2. A possible mod would be to put a 120V neon across the two neutrals. If it lights, one of the circuits in the wall is wired wrong.

Mike

 

[nsayer]

Yeah, that's why you want a 240 volt relay across both hots switching both to the socket.

I've come across a miswired outlet at my house and it makes the last relay make kind of a nasty buzzing noise, but the power to the socket remains off.

 

[Michael Bornstein]

I'm not sure what extra protection the 240V relay would provide. :shock: BTW, I do have 120V relays on each of the input lines to insure that they aren't connected to the output unless 120V is present. I also have neon indicators on both 120's.

If one of the circuits is miswired and they are on the same breaker, you get 120V out.

If they are on separate breakers, you probably will get 120V assuming that the neutral is the same

If both are miswired you will still get 240V :twisted:

I have seen 240V relays work at 120V (my old EVSE used 240V relays and they would fire at 120 V after buzzing for a while).

A neon bulb across the commons would be equally effective. If it lights, one circuit is miswired and you have 120V out, if it stays off and your output neon lights, it is 240V. If neither bulb lights, you are on the same circuit.

 

[nsayer]

If you get 120volts between the two hot lines, that's not enough voltage for the coil of the third relay. It won't actuate (instead, it makes a rather angry buzzing noise), which leaves both hots on the socket disconnected.

I have not seen 208/240 volt relays close at 120 volts, myself.

 

[Michael Bornstein]

Very true. But with my way you have a complex 120V to 14-50 converter cable, and you can still charge your car. :roll:

With yours, you have to dig the converter cable out of the back of the car. :lol:

 

[dstjohn99]

I like all the information shared here, thanks to all. I've had this adapter on the back burner for some time. I sketched up a schematic that I believe addressed all safety concerns and potential reverse polarity wiring issues. I believe I accomplished this with a single DPDT relay. I'll have to dig up the schematic, clean it up for presentation and get feedback from this group. Now where did I put that?... It's somewhere around the move the sport button and add digital voltage / current display projects. Hopefully I will find it soon and see if it is fatally flawed or worthy of presenting for discussion.