The smallest Quick 240V from two 120V outlets?

[drmanny3]

Tony, I made up one of the quick 240 units following the recommended parts list. I was going to sell it as the Leaf is getting turned in on Saturday. I was interested in the recent testing you did with the JESLA. What adapter do I need to connect the JESLA into the quick 240. I think the quick 240 has a Hubble twist lock 240 volt receptacle? I could then include it with my stuff when away from home.
Manny

 

[TonyWilliams]

Tony, I made up one of the quick 240 units following the recommended parts list. I was going to sell it as the Leaf is getting turned in on Saturday. I was interested in the recent testing you did with the JESLA. What adapter do I need to connect the JESLA into the quick 240. I think the quick 240 has a Hubble twist lock 240 volt receptacle? I could then include it with my stuff when away from home.
Manny

It depends on how many amps the two 120 volt circuits can handle. If a normal household non-GFCI 120 volt - 15 amp circuit, then you need to use the NEMA 5-15 with JESLA. That way, you JESLA won't pull more than 12 amps continuous.

If it's two 20 amp circuits, then use NEMA 5-20 for 16 amps continuous.

If it's a trailer park with TT-30 amp circuits, use the NEMA 10-30 or NEMA 14-30 for 24 amps continuous.

 

[drmanny3]

OK, I have the 5-15 that came with the JESLA. That is a 110 volt plug. I understand from your testing that it will pass through 12 amps at 240 volts. How do I connect that plug to the hobble twist lock l6-20? Do I just take that out and put in a 110 volt receptacle?
Thanks,
Manny

 

[TonyWilliams]

OK, I have the 5-15 that came with the JESLA. That is a 110 volt plug. I understand from your testing that it will pass through 12 amps at 240 volts. How do I connect that plug to the hobble twist lock l6-20? Do I just take that out and put in a 110 volt receptacle?
Thanks,
Manny

The UMC / JESLA doesn't know or regulate how many volts go through it. It takes whatever it gets, which means that if you plugged it into some 300 volt or greater AC socket, it would probably just burn something up. It will handle 100-250 volts just fine. The onboard charger in the Rav4 and other Tesla products can handle 277 volts.

So, the only thing that any J1772 device can control is the amperage through the duty cycle of the 1kHz pilot signal. So, the NEMA 5-15 plug will signal the UMC / JESLA pilot signal to tell the car's onboard charger to pull only 12 amps. The only known issue with this is if you try and pull over 20 amps on 120 volts, the car is programmed to only take 20 amps (newer versions of Tesla car firmware may allow 24 amps @ 120 volts). This is a Tesla car limitation (and inherited by Rav4 EV), not a UMC / JESLA limitation.

The NEMA 5-15 is normally passing 120 volts on one leg and Neutral is on the other. Ground is the 3rd. The only thing different with 240 volts is that 120 volts is sent over Neutral. That's it.

For the record, Tesla car's (and inherited by Rav4 EV) are polarity sensitive on 120 volts, so make sure you have those correct.

If you're using an L6-20 somewhere, obviously you'll need an adaptor to NEMA 5-15. I wouldn't cut off the L6-20, because you may want to pull up to 20 amps through it in the future.

 

[fooljoe]

In short you need to connect one of these to one of these with a bit of some good 12/3 cable. You could get one or the other end as a cable with molded connector and just cut off whatever's on the other end. I showed a 5-20r that can take either a 5-20 or 5-15 plug, but you could just go with a 5-15r and be limited to 12 amps.

And you'll probably want to affix some sort of warning labels, as this is a dangerous adapter in the sense that it allows anything with a standard plug to plug into a 240v power supply and get fried.

 

[drmanny3]

Thanks guys, I get the picture now. I will just make a short extension that way I won't mess with the quick 240.

 

[TonyWilliams]

And you'll probably want to affix some sort of warning labels, as this is a dangerous adapter in the sense that it allows anything with a standard plug to plug into a 240v power supply and get fried.

I fry at least one electric tooth brush per year by plugging my USA specification 120 volt toothbrush charger into a 230 volt receptacle somewhere else in the world.

Hair dryers, too. Poof!!! They burn out quick.

 

[fromport]

I configured mine such that I can plug in the long cord only and pass 120v through to the L6-20 receptacle, so it'll effectively double as a 120v extension cord if I need the extra length.

I would be interested in a schematic how you made that work.
Is that possible for you to post ?

 

[nsayer]

Herr Prof. Dr. Helmholtz:
(I apologize for the salutation but I am also a physicist and physician)
Can you provide a schematic of your mini Quick240 and also identify the relays. I looks like a nice project. :ugeek:

Herr Prof. Dr. Bornstein,
Hermann von Helmholtz is my favourite of the universal scientists in part because he's a physician physicist; I chose the name eHelmholtz for electronic Helmholtz. I like history.

The quick240 or easy240 device is based on a schematic that was posted on the LEAF forum by Phil Sadow of EVSEuprade. This is a direct link to schematic that he has posted on his site:

Notice that he uses SPST relays but some of us chose SPDT relays; I chose them cos they were cheaper. Also, he uses an LED indicator light which isn't as easy as a neon 240V indicator light.

The relays I used are the MAGNECRAFT 9AS5A52-120 POWER RELAY, SPDT, 120VAC, 30A. You can buy them here for $5.50 each.

The original thread on the LEAF forum is: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=4330

Forgive me for jumping in on this late... but that schematic is not as safe as it can be.

What you want to do is use two DPST relays. One pole from each relay is wired in series on each hot line.

In other words, you must insure that BOTH relays are on before EITHER hot line gets any power.

If you don't do this, then you could wind up with asymmetric power on the 240 outlet. This is dangerous because you might think that there's no power because it won't work, but there would still be portions energized with 120 VAC potential to ground. Ouch!

Also, this circuit doesn't insure that you're pulling opposite phases. I believe the commercial products don't connect up the power until and unless both hots are energized and both are on opposite phases. I'm not 100% sure how they accomplish that. You could use a 208/240 volt coil DPST relay as a final step to disconnect both hot lines unless there's a 208/240 volt potential between them.

 

[fooljoe]

I configured mine such that I can plug in the long cord only and pass 120v through to the L6-20 receptacle, so it'll effectively double as a 120v extension cord if I need the extra length.

I would be interested in a schematic how you made that work.
Is that possible for you to post ?

Sorry for the late reply fromport - I just saw this. I don't have a schematic available, but it's easy enough to talk through. Basically you'll want to use at least one SPDT relay instead of SPST (it's fine if both are SPDT.) SPDT relays have both NC (normally closed) and NO (normally open) terminals, while SPST relays have only NO terminals.

The "standard" design is to attach just the hot from each 120v cord to either relay's NO terminal ("P" on the above schematic.) What I did was to also attach the neutral from the long 120v cord to the NC terminal of the relay that's attached to the hot of the short 120v cord. The result is that when both 120v cords are energized it functions exactly the same as the standard design, but when only the long cord is energized the L6-20R will have 120v power available instead of just one energized hot and the other not connected to anything.

Hope this helps.

 

[fooljoe]

For the record, Tesla car's (and inherited by Rav4 EV) are polarity sensitive on 120 volts, so make sure you have those correct.

What's the effect of this? If you plug in to a 120v source with reversed hot/neutral, does it just not do anything or what? If you're using a "120v extension option" on your quick 240v as I just described in concert with an L6-20p to 5-15/20r adapter, you'll of course want to make sure you get the hot and neutral lined up properly.

 

[TonyWilliams]

For the record, Tesla car's (and inherited by Rav4 EV) are polarity sensitive on 120 volts, so make sure you have those correct.

What's the effect of this? If you plug in to a 120v source with reversed hot/neutral, does it just not do anything or what? If you're using a "120v extension option" on your quick 240v as I just described in concert with an L6-20p to 5-15/20r adapter, you'll of course want to make sure you get the hot and neutral lined up properly.

It just doesn't work... try it !!!

 

[nsayer]

Here's what I had in mind.

You can add neon indicators across each relay coil. The first two relays have 120v coils, the last one has a 208/240 volt coil.

Again, the concept is that unless both hot lines are 120v away from their respective neutral AND the two hots are 208/240 volt away from each other, no hot line is connected up at all.

It looks overkill, but unless I am vastly mistaken, each relay-point in that schematic is required to insure that that this is safe.

 

[nsayer]

I posted a picture on the other thread

 

[TonyWilliams]

I posted a picture on the other thread

Always great work, thanks.

Tony

 

[buickanddeere]

What an imaginative violation to the National Electrical Code and hazard to life and property. I'm contacting the forum administrator to have this hazard removed before the site gets sued.
Ever wonder why there double male ended cord sets are not sold in stores with CSA or similar sticker? It's because they are illegal and dangerous.
If you want 240 from a home while on the road for an emergency charge. Use a clothes dryer outlet or a welder plug in the garage.
If you want an EV and L2 charging. Get off your wallet and install a proper L6-20, L6-30,L6-50,L6-60,6-20,6-30 or 6-50 plug and receptacle set.

 

[ehelmholtz]

What an abhorrent Jackleg violation to the National Electrical Code and hazard to life and property. I'm contacting the forum administrator to have this hazard removed before the site gets sued.
Ever wonder why there double male ended cord sets are not sold in stores with CSA or similar sticker? It's because they are illegal and dangerous.
If you want 240 from a home while on the road for an emergency charge. Use a clothes dryer outlet or a welder plug in the garage.
If you want an EV and L2 charging. Get off your wallet and install a proper L6-20, L6-30,L6-50,L6-60,6-20,6-30 or 6-50 plug and receptacle set.

I found this post quite amusing; thanks for the good laugh. You might find the site for Quick220 Systems interesting and write them too. http://www.quick220.com/

 

[TonyWilliams]

There is nothing unsafe in this. The concept is actually patented and sold as "Quick 220".

LOWER THE TONE ON THIS FORUM. IT IS NOT THE SPARK EV FORUM WHERE ABUSES ARE TOLERATED.

 

[ehelmholtz]

LOWER THE TONE ON THIS FORUM. IT IS NOT THE SPARK EV FORUM WHERE ABUSES ARE TOLERATED.

Interesting, so buickanddeere came to us from the Spark forum? I wonder what they think about building your own EVSE there or better yet adding CHAdeMo to a car....

 

[buickanddeere]

LOWER THE TONE ON THIS FORUM. IT IS NOT THE SPARK EV FORUM WHERE ABUSES ARE TOLERATED.

Interesting, so buickanddeere came to us from the Spark forum? I wonder what they think about building your own EVSE there or better yet adding CHAdeMo to a car....

A properly built EVSE or properly converted CHAdeMo is one thing.
Using a split kitchen receptacle to obtain 240 would really surprise me if a relay protection system was certified.
Even using a four wire clothes dryer or electric stove receptacle will make the local electrical code inspector growl. For one it's using a dedicated four pin plug for a three pin load. 2ndly it's a "permanent temporary" equipment installation vs a protected weather proof receptacle out side or hard wired installation.