The smallest Quick 240V from two 120V outlets?

[ehelmholtz]

Many of us are aware of the utility of using two out of phase 120V outlets to make a quick 240V outlet. Some brave souls on the nissanleaf forum have even done this with a Y connector but most have gone with the commercial Quick220 or a homebrewed Easy240V with the appropriate relays for safety. I made one in 2011 that was enclosed in a 5"x3"x2" box which was much smaller than the commercial one. I needed another one and decided to see how small I could make it. Here's the result using a 3/4" PVC type T conduit body:

Here are photos as I was putting it together:

 

[TonyWilliams]

Awesome plan for some 12 amp 240 volt charging off of two out of phase 120 volt normal household wall sockets.

The problem there, of course, is how rare a 12 amp 240 volt charge cord is.

I need to do an experiment on JESLA to see what happens with a NEMA 5-15 installed with 240 volts present. Will it deliver 12 amps (the signal from the NEMA 5-15 adaptor on a JESLA) at 240 volts (120 volts on each L1 and Neutral) for a total of 2.88kW, or about 6 miles an hour.

 

[ehelmholtz]

Awesome plan for some 12 amp 240 volt charging off of two out of phase 120 volt normal household wall sockets.
The problem there, of course, is how rare a 12 amp 240 volt charge cord is.
I need to do an experiment on JESLA to see what happens with a NEMA 5-15 installed with 240 volts present. Will it deliver 12 amps (the signal from the NEMA 5-15 adaptor on a JESLA) at 240 volts (120 volts on each L1 and Neutral) for a total of 2.88kW, or about 6 miles an hour.

That's a great idea to test the Tesla UMC with a NEMA 5-15P using a NEMA 5-15R to a L6-20P adapter; I didn't think of that idea! that's why I sold the one I made and went with a more easily adjustable OpenEVSE http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=1013

Incidentally, with the homebuilt quick240 and the commercial quick220 20A device, you can charge at 16A 240V. The only caution is that many 120V outlets are only 15A but I find outlets in garages are 20A (for example, the outlet that powers the garage door). When I am not sure whether the outlets are 20A, I can limit charging with the EVSE to 12A (or 14A if charging for less than 3 hours).

 

[4EVEREV]

Since there are no clamps on that conduit box, what hold in all the wire exit points?

 

[ehelmholtz]

On the 2 120V cables, I used nonmetal strain relief grips that screw on the inside and I also added PVC type cement for good measure.
Something similar to this: http://www.waytekwire.com/item/24590/BLACK-1-4-STRAIGHT-CORDGRIP/

The L6-20R was an adapter to a Nema 6-50P which I cut off and it fits into one of the existing exit points well; I used plastic cement and silicone sealant to hold it in place.

 

[ehelmholtz]

This small Quick240V device is being paired with this small no frills 120V/240V EVSE based on OpenEVSE for my Volt. It's runs at 120V 12A and 240V 16A (enclosed in a 4x4x4 junction box) which is the max amperage the Volt can handle. I've set it not to trip any of the GFCI circuits that you might find at a parking garage. I thought about putting an LCD to make the EVSE adjustable amperage similar to this one here but decided to keep it simple.

 

[Michael Bornstein]

Herr Prof. Dr. Helmholtz:
(I apologize for the salutation but I am also a physicist and physician)
Can you provide a schematic of your mini Quick240 and also identify the relays. I looks like a nice project. :ugeek:

 

[ehelmholtz]

Herr Prof. Dr. Helmholtz:
(I apologize for the salutation but I am also a physicist and physician)
Can you provide a schematic of your mini Quick240 and also identify the relays. I looks like a nice project. :ugeek:

Herr Prof. Dr. Bornstein,
Hermann von Helmholtz is my favourite of the universal scientists in part because he's a physician physicist; I chose the name eHelmholtz for electronic Helmholtz. I like history.

The quick240 or easy240 device is based on a schematic that was posted on the LEAF forum by Phil Sadow of EVSEuprade. This is a direct link to schematic that he has posted on his site:

Notice that he uses SPST relays but some of us chose SPDT relays; I chose them cos they were cheaper. Also, he uses an LED indicator light which isn't as easy as a neon 240V indicator light.

The relays I used are the MAGNECRAFT 9AS5A52-120 POWER RELAY, SPDT, 120VAC, 30A. You can buy them here for $5.50 each.

The original thread on the LEAF forum is: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=4330

 

[Michael Bornstein]

Herr Helmholtz:

I have ordered the relays, but can't find a reasonable 240v lamp. Most of those on Grainger cost as much as the rest of the project. Do you know of a source? I guess that I can just place two 120V lamps in series. They are quite cheap at Radio Shack. Alternatively, if I knew how much current they drew, I could add a resistor in series, but Radio Shack doesn't give the specs.

Mike

 

[ehelmholtz]

I bought mine at a local electronics shop for a few bucks. Here's one at Newark that should work, neon light.

 

[Michael Bornstein]

Thanks for the schematic and the advice. I have found a 240V neon at DigiKey for $3.40. I am planning to place three neons on the device, 1 each amber on the 120 lines to show that the relay has closed, and one on the 240 to show that it is present. My model will be a little larger than yours as I am adding a Leviton 55054 (14-30r) on the side to allow easy connection to my EVSE. I am trying to decide on an optimum cord lenght for the 120V cords. I have a 100' 12/3 extension cord that I will partially sacrifice by cutting off a chunk and then adding a new 5-15p to the cut end. The question is whether to cut off 2x10' or 2x12' I noticed that you used 2x8' but I wonder if that is long enough, or if I should then rely on the 25' and 100' (soon to be 76' or 80' or 84') cord that I always carry. Any suggestions?

 

[fooljoe]

I put one long (~25') and one short (~3') cord on mine. I figure one outlet will usually be closer to the car than the other. Also, I configured mine such that I can plug in the long cord only and pass 120v through to the L6-20 receptacle, so it'll effectively double as a 120v extension cord if I need the extra length.

Also, I'd advise against putting a 30A receptacle on your adapter, even if that's what matches your EVSE. The receptacle should match the capacity of the device, and if you try to pull 24+ amps through your adapter you're going to be either popping breakers or frying stuff.

 

[Michael Bornstein]

Also, I'd advise against putting a 30A receptacle on your adapter, even if that's what matches your EVSE. The receptacle should match the capacity of the device, and if you try to pull 24+ amps through your adapter you're going to be either popping breakers or frying stuff.

I appreciate the advice. Unfortunately 14-20r's are hard to find and are expensive compared to the 14-30r's. The current draw is set by the EVSE, so even if I had a 14-20 (or a 5-20), some fool (namely me ) might still forget to set the EVSE to the correct current. My EVSE has a Universal 14-??p that I created by cutting and grinding off the neutral pin of a 14-50. If I used something other than a 14-30r, I would just have to build a converter cable and be in the same situation.

For the cable, I originally purchased a 25' 14/3 cord but that is only rated at 15A. My 100' cord is also rated at 15A, but is 12/3, so except for the plug it should carry 20A.

My EVSE has a 25' J1772 cable so that gives me some flexibility. Any other suggestions as to cord lengths?

 

[fooljoe]

even if I had a 14-20 (or a 5-20)

You don't need the extra neutral connector of a 14-20, and a 5-20 is for 120v. I put an L6-20r on mine - which you'll find to be a very common receptacle with lots of adapters available (largely due to the popularity of the EVSEupgrade for the Leaf.) It's also nice that you can lock the plug into place to prevent accidental unpluggings if you need to string together a long run. I also have a 14-XX plug on my open-EVSE, but a 14-30r to l6-20p adapter is easily procured/made.

Anyway, you're right that it's not a concern as long as you set your EVSE correctly and don't plug anything else into the adapter, and make sure that nobody else does either. But who knows, maybe someday in the distant future the adapter winds up in somebody else's hands and he thinks he can go ahead and plug his electric dryer into it or something. Of course the 14-30r to l6-20p adapter (or any "downhill" adapter, for that matter) carries a similar risk, but I think it's a bit less worrisome than something that has 2 "standard" 120v plugs on one end.

Either way, have fun putting it together! I found making mine to be a very rewarding experience, and it's come in handy a number of times.

 

[ehelmholtz]

I agree with comments above and add that the current one I have uses 25 feet cords on each end which is usually overkill. Others have used 10-15 feet cords and done fine with them since most of the time you will be able to find outlets on different phases relatively near each other. (The closest that I've found is right next to each other! but this is not common).

The advice to match the receptacle to the capacity of the device is a sensible one; this is what I do by using a L6-20R. Although I do know people who use unmatched receptacles. More recently a friend of mine used a 5-20R for his receptacle which is, of course, amperage matched but not voltage match since 5-20R is 120V. Still, I think it's much safer than using a Y type connector without fuses. I just found out that EMW sells Y connectors with 2X120V to 14-50R which is not only unmatched but also without the safety relays as far as I can see. This is from EMW's website (not for the faint hearted):

"Dual 'regular' 3-prong household plug - to convert 2 120V outlets in your house into a mighty 240v supply. You will have to provide your own extension cords to reach those two sockets (which will have to be on different 'branches' in your house wiring). You can get those extension cords pretty much anywhere (Home Depot in the US, etc). Just make sure you use heavy duty 12 or 10 gauge cords. With your purchase of this adapter, we will be supplying directions on how to identify which sockets sit on different branches. It is really easy. You can also test your circuit yourself before ordering to make sure it will work with this adapter. Note the breakers for your respective outlets that you would like to use, then in your electrical panel, measure the voltage between the wires that enter the respective breakers. You will see either 240V or 0V. If you see 240V, you can use those outlets to get 240V. Note that the outlets have to be regular 120V outlets, not the GFCI type (GFCI outlets normally have a test button and a small indication light)."

 

[ehelmholtz]

...I need to do an experiment on JESLA to see what happens with a NEMA 5-15 installed with 240 volts present. Will it deliver 12 amps (the signal from the NEMA 5-15 adaptor on a JESLA) at 240 volts (120 volts on each L1 and Neutral) for a total of 2.88kW, or about 6 miles an hour.

This is an update with good news for people with Tony's Jesla or Tesla UMC conversion. He reports that the Tesla UMC adapters NEMA 5-15 and 5-20 both work at 240v, giving continuous 12A and 16A respectively. This means that it can be used with a quick240v device like this one.

Still, the openEVSE remains more versatile than tesla umc conversion even if not as pretty. For example, I can set the openEVSE to give pilot signals at will e.g. 14A, 18A, 20A etc. This is particularly helpful when not charging for more than three hours at a time.

 

[4EVEREV]

I agree with comments above and add that the current one I have uses 25 feet cords on each end which is usually overkill. Others have used 10-15 feet cords and done fine with them since most of the time you will be able to find outlets on different phases relatively near each other. (The closest that I've found is right next to each other! but this is not common).

The advice to match the receptacle to the capacity of the device is a sensible one; this is what I do by using a L6-20R. Although I do know people who use unmatched receptacles. More recently a friend of mine used a 5-20R for his receptacle which is, of course, amperage matched but not voltage match since 5-20R is 120V. Still, I think it's much safer than using a Y type connector without fuses. I just found out that EMW sells Y connectors with 2X120V to 14-50R which is not only unmatched but also without the safety relays as far as I can see. This is from EMW's website (not for the faint hearted):

"Dual 'regular' 3-prong household plug - to convert 2 120V outlets in your house into a mighty 240v supply. You will have to provide your own extension cords to reach those two sockets (which will have to be on different 'branches' in your house wiring). You can get those extension cords pretty much anywhere (Home Depot in the US, etc). Just make sure you use heavy duty 12 or 10 gauge cords. With your purchase of this adapter, we will be supplying directions on how to identify which sockets sit on different branches. It is really easy. You can also test your circuit yourself before ordering to make sure it will work with this adapter. Note the breakers for your respective outlets that you would like to use, then in your electrical panel, measure the voltage between the wires that enter the respective breakers. You will see either 240V or 0V. If you see 240V, you can use those outlets to get 240V. Note that the outlets have to be regular 120V outlets, not the GFCI type (GFCI outlets normally have a test button and a small indication light)."

This should NEVER be used for getting 240V, it is an example of what one should never build and how irresponsible companies should not be making products in the EV market. They continue to sell this type of irresponsible crap and demonstrate they are a company that does not care about safety but rather making a quick buck, they are a liability to the EV market and themselves.

 

[ehelmholtz]

This should NEVER be used for getting 240V, it is an example of what one should never build and how irresponsible companies should not be making products in the EV market. They continue to sell this type of irresponsible crap and demonstrate they are a company that does not care about safety but rather making a quick buck, they are a liability to the EV market and themselves.

Thanks for commenting and I'm surprised more members didn't have opinions on this! There were much more passionate responses when I posted the warning about this 'product' on the LEAF forum.

 

[4EVEREV]

This should NEVER be used for getting 240V, it is an example of what one should never build and how irresponsible companies should not be making products in the EV market. They continue to sell this type of irresponsible crap and demonstrate they are a company that does not care about safety but rather making a quick buck, they are a liability to the EV market and themselves.

Thanks for commenting and I'm surprised more members didn't have opinions on this! There were much more passionate responses when I posted the warning about this 'product' on the LEAF forum.

One of the most irresponsible and idiotic things I have ever seen from an " EV company". I expect this from people who are not engineers and ignorant to electricity but not from people who are making EVSE kits.

 

[user 340]

One of the most irresponsible and idiotic things I have ever seen from an " EV company". I expect this from people who are not engineers and ignorant to electricity but not from people who are making EVSE kits.

Are you referring to Quick 240V adapters in general or this one specific implementation? I genuinely want to understand your concern.