tesla order change: no more dual chargers possible

[fromport]

I came across this article about changes to the Tesla Model S ordering process:

Tesla recently changed the options for ordering a Model S. Significantly, the changes include deleting all mentions anywhere for the option to have installed within the vehicle "Dual Chargers." This is the feature that allows the Model S to receive Level 2 (240 volt) charging at 80 amps. Standard is 40 amps. Besides a large segment of Tesla owners having 240 Volt, 80 amp EVSE installed in our homes, Tesla has created a vast "Destination Charging" network of Tesla-specifc 240 volt, 80 amp charging stations that are at many hotels, restaurants and other public places all over the U.S., Europe and China. These are a second network in addition to the Tesla Superchargers. The Destination Charging or home 80 amp stations allow Model S vehicles to receive charging at 19 kW, meaning this method adds 45 to 50 miles of range to the vehicle per hour of charging, or filling up a 250-mile range vehicle in about three and one-half hours. The standard 40 amp vehicles take twice as long to charge.
For whatever reason, Tesla has decided to not show anywhere on its ordering page the opportunity to have the vehicle be fitted to receive 80 amps. This may affect the rollout of Destination Charging stations as a facility may now opt for only installing 40 amp EVSEs rather than 80 amp, as there presumably will be far less Tesla vehicles with 80 amp capability.
Under the new sales method, a customer would have to figure out though a sales associate or some other research the 80 amp opportunity. Then this owner would have to have the 80 amp capability installed not at the factory, but at Tesla Service center for an additional $2000 including parts and labor.
Up until about two weeks ago, the 80 amp charging option (Dual Chargers) was prominently displayed as an ordering option that would come pre-installed from the factory.

Among other changes to the Tesla ordering includes all vehicle ordered now are Supercharger-enabled. Previously some models could be ordered for less money without the ability for the vehicle to Supercharge. There are several other changes including discontinuing the 60 kW battery Model S that had an EPA-rated 208 mile range and replacing it with a 70 kW battery model that has an EPA-rated 240 mile range.

What could be the reason to ditch the second charger option ? Not enough people ordering it ? Or a technical reason ?

 

[DevinL]

I think the answer is right there in the last sentence. Standard supercharging means dual chargers are no longer a particularly attractive option, especially since the cost to install at home is usually higher as many people would need panel upgrades to accommodate 100A breakers. With the widespread availability of *free* superchargers it doesn't make a lot of sense to get dual chargers. If I had ever been in the market to purchase a Tesla I would have chosen supercharger capability and not have bothered with dual chargers.

 

[4EVEREV]

So few homes and locations can support 80A, even 40A is rough in many residences.

 

[miimura]

There used to be a huge penalty for adding the second charger after taking delivery. I think few people were ordering it, so they wanted to streamline the production line and only install one charger in the factory. The new price of the second charger, to be installed at a Service Center, is $2,000. This is an increase compared to the earlier $1,500 price of factory installation, but significantly less than the earlier $3,500 price for Service Center installation.

Some people that live in Canada that mistakenly did not get the second charger when they ordered have done so with the new lower price. Canada has fewer superchargers than the US and they have a network of public 70A and 80A J1772 chargers.

 

[GlennD]

So few homes and locations can support 80A, even 40A is rough in many residences.

Being conservative and only charging late at night I still managed to burn up ( as on fire) my 100A FPE panel. I sure had not budgeted a 2900 bill for emergency repair and a new 200A panel. I am just lucky my savings equaled the cost!

 

[dstjohn99]

So few homes and locations can support 80A, even 40A is rough in many residences.

Being conservative and only charging late at night I still managed to burn up ( as on fire) my 100A FPE panel. I sure had not budgeted a 2900 bill for emergency repair and a new 200A panel. I am just lucky my savings equaled the cost!

FPE panels are junk (dangerous). It's good you got it replaced. I hope there was no injury and only limited damage.

 

[GlennD]

So few homes and locations can support 80A, even 40A is rough in many residences.

Being conservative and only charging late at night I still managed to burn up ( as on fire) my 100A FPE panel. I sure had not budgeted a 2900 bill for emergency repair and a new 200A panel. I am just lucky my savings equaled the cost!

FPE panels are junk (dangerous). It's good you got it replaced. I hope there was no injury and only limited damage.

The fire was contained in the panel. My entire complex of 116v units has FPE panels from 1976. I was holding off its replacement until the other half of my duplex PUD replaced theirs but sometimes you have no choice. Oh well, I will now have 200A service. It was nearly the same as replacing the old 100A service since the power was already 200A. After $650 in emergency repairs I had power again. The panel was so smoked I really had no choice but replace the panel.

They have been working all week at changing out the panel. At least I only pay 10% until it passes final and the utility seals the meter. The electricians had the funny tool to remove the meter. As I understand it the utility must see the inspection report to reseal the meter. Since it is now in place I could care less but it might freak out the meter reader.

 

[cwerdna]

FPE panels are junk (dangerous). It's good you got it replaced. I hope there was no injury and only limited damage.

For those who don't know what we're talking about, AFAIK Zinsco and Federal Pacific are the dangerous ones: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=283829#p283829.

 

[jspearman]

I agree that dual chargers are overkill, unless you are operating your Tesla as a taxi and don't have access to a supercharger. I feel like 85kW batteries are overkill, too, unless you drive more than 120 miles/day. I'd love to see battery switching stations that could swap a 40kW battery for an 85kW for trips, since 98% of my driving is urban, not long-distance travel. So much extra weight and expense for a benefit I would use 3x year. The RAV's range is just right for us, as is the charging speed.

 

[fromport]

I agree that dual chargers are overkill, unless you are operating your Tesla as a taxi and don't have access to a supercharger. I feel like 85kW batteries are overkill, too, unless you drive more than 120 miles/day. I'd love to see battery switching stations that could swap a 40kW battery for an 85kW for trips, since 98% of my driving is urban, not long-distance travel. So much extra weight and expense for a benefit I would use 3x year. The RAV's range is just right for us, as is the charging speed.

Given the price of an extra 10kW extra charger (> $3000) compared to a $2000 JDEMO solution, I think the quickcharge option is the way to go.
Plus the extra weight for the charger and possible extra cooling. In fact, with a quickcharger solution, you could take out the existing onboard charger, cooling unit , fluid and install small quickcharge unit at home , limit it to the same 10kW the onboard charger gives you (people on the nissan forum have homebrewed a 12kW chademo charger).
You would have to rely on quick charging only, where as with J1772 charging you could charge "everywhere" ;-)
Maybe in the future

 

[miimura]

I agree that dual chargers are overkill, unless you are operating your Tesla as a taxi and don't have access to a supercharger. I feel like 85kW batteries are overkill, too, unless you drive more than 120 miles/day. I'd love to see battery switching stations that could swap a 40kW battery for an 85kW for trips, since 98% of my driving is urban, not long-distance travel. So much extra weight and expense for a benefit I would use 3x year. The RAV's range is just right for us, as is the charging speed.

Given the price of an extra 10kW extra charger (> $3000) compared to a $2000 JDEMO solution, I think the quickcharge option is the way to go.
Plus the extra weight for the charger and possible extra cooling. In fact, with a quickcharger solution, you could take out the existing onboard charger, cooling unit , fluid and install small quickcharge unit at home , limit it to the same 10kW the onboard charger gives you (people on the nissan forum have homebrewed a 12kW chademo charger).
You would have to rely on quick charging only, where as with J1772 charging you could charge "everywhere" ;-)
Maybe in the future

The current price of the second charger for a Model S is now $2,000. JdeMO will be about $2,500. So, you have it backwards. However, I agree with your premise. Tesla is going in the right direction. Every current model has Supercharging included. When Supercharging stations reach a sufficient level of penetration and convenience, you don't need AC charging faster than overnight. When DCFC is as prevalent as gas stations, you could envision selling an electric car with no onboard AC charger. Then external DC home charging stations would be desirable and even necessary. However, you still have to have liquid thermal management for effective battery, inverter, and motor cooling, so removing the onboard charger does not really remove that much of the cooling system.

 

[fromport]

The current price of the second charger for a Model S is now $2,000. JdeMO will be about $2,500.

I was talking in the rav4 case. The fact that I compared it with jdemo pricing should have given that away ;-)
I doubt you can even get the hardware for $3k, let alone have it build into your rav4

 

[miimura]

The current price of the second charger for a Model S is now $2,000. JdeMO will be about $2,500.

I was talking in the rav4 case. The fact that I compared it with jdemo pricing should have given that away ;-)
I doubt you can even get the hardware for $3k, let alone have it build into your rav4

Adding another 10kW charger to the RAV is such a big undertaking that I didn't even consider that's what you were talking about.