talk me out of/convince me

[evie]

I've been hearing so many conflicting things about this car and there is so little information out there.
So I wanted to hear from actual RAV4 EV owners.
In theory, I would love to get this car. It's perfect for my driving needs (plenty of range and size).
But some people say it's "not quite there yet" as a car. It's too glitchy. It's not reliable. Which worries me with 2 kids.
Then again, the professional reviews have been stellar. And between the range, performance and lease deals -- it sounds too good to be true!!
So what is it, actual drivers? The best kept secret on the road? Or too much trouble?

Any responses would be greatly appreciated. I'm going to make my decision in the next week or so.

 

[cwerdna]

There are plenty of posts here to help you.

Unfortunately, it seems like the vehicle is not reliable or rather, the odds of having a semi-significant reliability prob (e.g. gearbox noise) all the way to the fairly serious gateway ECU problems causing "no start" conditions aren't low. It seems mostly the Tesla bits are to blame.

You'd better have a backup car available.

I posted more at http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/20988-OT-RAV4-EV-to-fill-gap-while-waiting-and-waiting-for-Model-X?p=430903&viewfull=1#post430903. Unreliable and Toyota is usually an oxymoron and rare. (FWIW, I'm somewhat of a Toyota fan.)

Hopefully you live in CA. If you're outside it, you're taking a gamble re: warranty and other work.

I considered the Rav4 EV and ditching my Prius before leasing my Leaf. At the time, I think Rav4 EV lease deals were crap while the purchase discounts were huge.

But, I didn't want to buy and the reliability probs really scared me away from being able to ditch my Prius. And, I didn't want a Rav4 EV. It was too expensive, had no CHAdeMO port and had WAY more range than I typically needed (commute is ~24 miles roundtrip). And, if my living and charging circumstances changed, I'd have to go thru the pain of selling (unknown what the demand and prices were going to be like).

So, it's '13 Leaf SV w/2 year lease + owned 06 Prius for me (bought new in January 06).

 

[TonyWilliams]

So what is it, actual drivers? The best kept secret on the road? Or too much trouble?
Any responses would be greatly appreciated. I'm going to make my decision in the next week or so.

A) Lease, do NOT buy. I do not recommend the car for you if you are out-of-state, or not near a "certified" Toyota repair station. Toyota is going out of their way to make sure life will be difficult for you for an out-of-state purchase.

B) Read through the forum of the various issues (there are a bunch) and decide if this much potential hassle is worth it to you. Only you know that answer.

There is a reason that this car can't sell as many in over one year that Nissan and Tesla sell their respective EVs in mere weeks.

If you don't know, this car will be discontinued in 6-9 months. If you do lease the Rav4 EV, I strongly recommend Dianne at Carson Toyota (near LA), even if you're in NorCal. Read through this post, also:

http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=210

 

[cossie1600]

If you are willing to handle the quirks of owning an EV, this car is probably the best one for someone with kids outside of the Tesla. The Leaf/Sparks/Fiat/Fit are too small and the RAV4 does have a realistic range of 90 @ 80%. If I drive my Leaf fast, I usually get 50 miles at the most at 80%.

As far as reliability goes, I know some people have had problems with the car. Maybe my car is too new, but I don't see it being out of norm, especially for a car built in such limited numbers. My 370z has had problem with the gas tank, 4 years later the tank is still not fixed and the car can still stall off a corner. It is what it is, that's what the warranty is for. Audi and Land Rover are notorious for being unreliable, it hasn't stopped people from buying them.

 

[mark_rivers19]

@ Evie
Few questions first?
Where do you live?
How many miles of commute a day?
Do you have another car?
Are you willing to spend $1,500-2000 for a charging station ( installed at home)?

and here's why.

If you live in Santa Monica ( as an example) where there's plenty of charging stations, RAV4 EV will definitely work for you. In other places, especially outside CA, your best place to charge, for now will be either at home or at work ( provided there's one). So that's a major consideration.

The need for a 2nd vehicle for those long drives (200 plus miles one way) can be complemented with a car rental.
however, planning your trip accordingly, you can still use the EV.

if you don't drive more than 10,000miles/yr ( 27miles/day), then you might be better off with a regular car ( ICE). if you BUY, it will take a lot of time to justify the price difference between a $15,000 ICE and a $48,000 EV. i know with Fed credits and CA credit, you're probably looking at $30,000 plus RAV4 EV, but still it's pricey.

at the end of the day, if you're still considering the RAV4 EV, LEASE it.

 

[rayray]

We have a collective of 6 RAV4 EV's here at work - five 2012's, and one 2013.
They have a collective of 30,000 + miles on them.
We have had 2 issues so far.
1) The motor made a sound on regen (we nicknamed it the turkey car), which was replaced by Mossy Toyota, and it is working fine.
2) The other was a gateway ECU, which was fixed over a weekend, and the driver is happy again ... Again at Mossy Toyota
We all service our cars here in San Diego at Mossy Toyota - (Hint if you are in San Diego, go to Mossy)

I think most everyone shares my views, so here is our views:
1) Buy this car, because deep down inside, it makes you feel good that you are not polluting the environment.
2) Buy this car, because you are sick and tired of the oil companies, and don't want to ever buy gas again
3) Buy this car, because you want to save money on your daily commute (Our electricity vs gas is 1/3 the cost of gasoline)
4) Buy this car, because you want to see Tesla succeed - not Toyota .... It is pretty clear Toyota wants to be in bed with Oil companies, and they can't unless they replace the battery with Hydrogen, and force you to buy it.
5) Buy this car, if you can charge for at least 4 hours between 75-90 mile commutes (range varies based on speed) .. You can do more, but then your range will drop in the teens .. Not good for batteries.
6) Buy this car, because you love to see the face of BMW drivers trying to cut you off, and are left in your dust.
7) Buy this car, because you will never have to do oil changes, smog checks, air filter changes, etc
8) Buy this car, because the Kids rather be in this car than the Mercedes, because it is so quiet, it is cool, and the envy of all of their friends.

Don't buy this car if:
1) You do not have access to a level 2 charger someplace. The 120 EVSE that comes with the car is truly for emergencies.
2) Don't buy this car, if you will drive it like a Porsche - your range, and efficiency will go to hell.
3) Don't buy this car if you think it has a great entertainment system ... the radio sucks, and so do most of the touch controls.
4) Don't buy this car if you do drive more than 90 miles on a regular basis, and don't have a second ICE care to use instead.
5) Don't buy this car, thinking it's a Toyota, so I have nothing to worry about ... The future of these cars is pretty grim. (better to lease)

I love the car, as does my wife so much so, that she is planning to trade the Mercedes in for a Tesla Model X, once they start rolling out...
So, I would buy it again, and again, again ...

Cheers.

 

[eschatfische]

I come from the perspective of having been blessed with a "good" RAV4 EV. It's really worked out well for us. We're at 6700 miles, so we've had it for a while now, and there have only been issues with the "31st of the month charging bug" (which Toyota claims is now fixed with the latest firmware update for the car) and there was one evening when it didn't automatically charge (yes, it finally happened to us once).

What you read in the reviews is true. The RAV4 EV has:
* Great performance and remarkably smooth acceleration - it's a pleasure to drive
* Better-than-advertised range for most drivers, and enough range for a large number of daily driving patterns
* Lower cost of ownership and operation than a gas car (so long as you charge when or where electrical rates are low)
* Reasonably fast charging with 240V/40A Level 2 chargers
* As much interior space as the standard RAV4 (which is voluminous)
* Eligibility for the white HOV stickers, which has been extended to 2020

But there are also the five big catches:
* Toyota has repeatedly stated that the RAV4 EV is a California-only car - those who have purchased it and moved it out of state have had trouble getting service
* As with any EV, you really need to live or work in a location where you can have a dedicated EVSE ("charging station") installed
* While the RAV4 EV's range is really very good for an EV in its class, range is still limited and does not suit every owner's needs
* The charge timer (to charge overnight when rates are low) has been unreliable for many people. While we have only had issues on a couple of occasions, it is something that can be very disruptive. That said, reliability has been getting better with updates from Toyota, and with the RavCharge application fooljoe made here: http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=727
* Many owners have experienced "Check EV System" errors, where there is a failure of some sort within the EV system. Fixes have spanned from rebooting the car to individuals having to have their cars in the shop for weeks before parts could be sourced. Because these issues are not consistent - lots of people have had them, but lots also haven't, and the causes and fixes vary - this is the big gamble of buying a RAV4 right now.

Since we live in California, have an EVSE in our garage, have a second gas-burning car we can swap out for long drives and emergencies and my wife's daily commute is within the limits of a standard RAV4 EV charge, we're really the specific target for this car, and as above, it's worked out extremely well for us. Experiences vary a lot, though, so consider those catches carefully.

 

[eplantz]

On the plus side, I replaced a 2011 Volt with a RAV4EV.

It has only been 3 months now but I've had zero problems and really enjoying it.

I have no experiences with dealer service and am out of state so I expect that to be difficult.

Gene

 

[TonyWilliams]

We have a collective of 6 RAV4 EV's here at work - five 2012's, and one 2013.
They have a collective of 30,000 + miles on them.
We have had 2 issues so far.
1) The motor made a sound on regen (we nicknamed it the turkey car), which was replaced by Mossy Toyota, and it is working fine.
2) The other was a gateway ECU, which was fixed over a weekend, and the driver is happy again ... Again at Mossy Toyota
We all service our cars here in San Diego at Mossy Toyota - (Hint if you are in San Diego, go to Mossy)

Based on everything you've said, Mossy has limited experience with repairing the car since it's so "trouble free". I actually bought my car at Mossy (and two previous LEAFs), and when the first of many issues with my car happened (burnt / melted charge port), a call to a Mossy service manager made it clear that he didn't even know that Toyota had an electric Rav4.

I've been going to Carlsbad Toyota ever since (over 30 days worth of repairs on my car alone). By the way, the service part on any EV is a no brainier that ANYBODY could do.

Since my car has had virtually every issue that is common with our cars, I would say that they are quite familiar with it. In addition, I know that they have removed and/or replaced EVERY Tesla supplied part on my car, and have swapped motors / gateway computers, et al, on many others.

I have no monetary or personal interest in either dealership. Frank Toyota in El Cajon also sells and services the Rav4 EV in San Diego.

I think most everyone shares my views, so here is our views:
1) Buy this car,

I specifically do NOT recommend buying the car, but instead I recommend a lease. Many of the features you subsequently state can be handled by many other electric vehicles. I recommend a Nissan LEAF for an economical EV that is mostly trouble free. It is far cheaper to buy and operate than a Rav4 EV.

The limitations with that car are accelerated battery degradation in hot areas and an 80-ish mile range when new. This can be as low as 50 miles within the period of a 36 month lease for a LEAF with heavy heater use and severely degraded battery from Phoenix type heat.

The positives are access to CHAdeMO quick chargers (about 60 miles of range replenished in 30 minutes) that the Rav4 EV will never have. Plus, Nissan has sold more LEAFs (about 80,000 so far) than any road legal EV in history. Nissan wants to sell you an EV, and Toyota is openly antagonistic toward EVs.

2) Don't buy this car, if you will drive it like a Porsche - your range, and efficiency will go to hell.

The OP can drive any way desired if the required range is only 50 miles daily.

4) Don't buy this car if you do drive more than 90 miles on a regular basis, and don't have a second ICE care to use instead.

Well, the car is capable of FAR greater than 90 miles. You're selling it short. When new, with no heater and no battery degradation, it is capable of over 140 miles at 65mph on level terrain with no adverse wind, snow, rain, etc.

The OP doesn't need an ICE for longer commutes; I recommend a Tesla Model S or near future Model X with Supercharger access. Also, keeping an ICE for occasional use requires careful accounting. Paying maintenance, license and insurance on a second car might ultimately cost more than just renting a car occasionally. YMMV.

I love the car, as does my wife so much so, that she is planning to trade the Mercedes in for a Tesla Model X, once they start rolling out...
So, I would buy it again, and again, again ....

I would buy the Tesla Model S or X or E in spite of the numerous issues that so many have had with the Rav4 EV.

 

[fooljoe]

I've been hearing so many conflicting things about this car and there is so little information out there.

Looks like you're continuing to hear conflicting things...

I'm going to chime in on the plus side. I love the car. Sure it has some quirks, but nothing you can't workaround (like with my RavCharge app ), and nothing that's a serious safety concern, as far as I know. I have 2 little girls myself and I have 0 concern with driving them around in my Rav.

I have a 2 year old Leaf as well, and the Rav is a much more capable car, and only cost me $6k more than the Leaf did. You just can't say enough about having a battery that's literally twice as big. Plus I'm really disappointed with how quickly the Leaf battery has degraded, and I expect the Rav's Tesla-engineered battery will hold up better (that's still a bit of an unknown though). If you want to get an EV, then it's all about the battery, and the Rav gives you more battery for your money than any other EV out there, plain and simple.

 

[Bassman]

Over 16,500 miles and have had zero issues. Mine is a 2012 I got in February. I guess I got one of the good ones.

 

[mark_rivers19]

Over 16,500 miles and have had zero issues. Mine is a 2012 I got in February. I guess I got one of the good ones.

posts like this gives me great confidence about OUR RAV4 EV.
and members need to realize that this is kinda a support group, so people who posts here MOSTLY have concerns or problems.
the other 9 who don't have any, go on their merry ways and call it a day.

I'd be amused if i see a thread which states like this:

day 400 of my Toyota RAV4 EV and still no problems.. :lol:

 

[Dianne]

I'm biased.
Obviously!
But, I have a blue Rav4 EV 2013 that I have owned for 2 months & 5900 miles now. No problems, flawless performance, highly respectable range, fun as hell to drive and best of all... unlimited mileage lease! WHO does that!

I tell everyone "I'm the one who's possibly turning in a 100K mile EV at the end of three years" .. and getting my money's worth. I'll especially love it at the end if it's worth more than its residual on the market. I looked at this as a sort of a business proposition between me and Toyota. After the state incentive, it's costing me about 14,300 to drive this car UNLIMITED miles. For three years... seemed a win-win for me, trying to keep from driving my plug-in Prius into the ground. It was just 15 months old when I got the EV and had 44K on it already. Disclaimer: terms are changed now so post Sept 30th, the CA costs for the EV over the next 35 months on lease will be about $2000 higher overall due to the lease cash being lower, and the residuals being lower as well. Still a very good deal!

Bought the EV on August 1 (but didn't start driving it right away) - so day 77 and no problems! :roll:

 

[EVBill]

I've had mine since May, 6500 miles and no issues other than the door to the charging connector sticking closed a few times (easy to fix). It has made my commute fun to drive, saves 20 minutes coming home with the carpool access, and plenty of room for those trips to Home Depot.

 

[TonyWilliams]

If somebody is seriously suggesting that 1 out of 10 chance of getting a bum $50k car is good odds... I'm not sure that would convince me!!!

Oh, I just read the failed battery thread (those are $36,000 if warranty didn't cover it). "Interestingly, Mossy Toyota didn't have the right lift to lift the car up for battery replacement and so they had to install a new lift in order to do the battery replacement".

Mossy doesn't seem to "up" on Rav4 EV maintenance to me.

http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9276#p9276

 

[Tadol]

I only have 600 miles racked up, still learning about charge stations and range, biggest complaint is still figuring out the hvac system, but . . .

I really, really enjoy this car - peppy and responsive, quietly aggressive, very decent range, lots of room for passengers, can even fit a 10' length of ABS inside easily. While I have no idea how well this will all play out at the end of the lease, I'm gonna be much more aggressive in the future about getting another electric car ( or truck ). And as soon as we can swing it, i think my wife is gonna get a Tesla -

That said - check the charging situation at you house, make sure you can add a minimum 30a level 2 station that you're gonna easily access under all conditions. If you know you'll routinely run over 60 miles away from home, figure out what your recharging options are at the remote location(s). Dianne is a great person to get a car from, but check who and where you're gonna get service. And realize - you're at the cutting edge, so there is always a chance your gonna get nicked -

 

[rav4buyer]

No problems after 2K miles for me. I enjoy driving on my 90 mile daily commute on a single standard charge. Can go 75-80mph most of the trip and still have enough juice to go Sport mode the last 5 miles for fun. If I hit traffic, I get even more range. The free 30A Aerovironment charges from empty to full standard in 5:30hours while I sleep., starts at 11PM everyday thanks to Ravcharge. I have bluetooth and download podcasts for my commute. I look at Waze for optimal routes given traffic. Rav4EV is far better looking than the unattractive (ugly in my opinion) Leaf, and differentiated enough from the ICE Rav with no ugly tire on the back. I've spotted a couple of RavEVs on my commute but there are far fewer than the Leaf. I get a head turn once in a while.

I think you'd be crazy not to purchase given the features and price. There is risk of problems, just like with most things in life. There's a big difference between getting a $16K lemon vs. a $50K one. Just go with the lease.

 

[cossie1600]

Every BMW N54 motor had a high pressure fuel pump problem, almost every early 2000s TL/MDX had transmission problem. 1 out of 10 is not great, but it's far from the worst. My stupid Nissan still fuel starves when corner with less than 3/4 of a tank, they have no plans to fix that either.

If somebody is seriously suggesting that 1 out of 10 chance of getting a bum $50k car is good odds... I'm not sure that would convince me!!!

Oh, I just read the failed battery thread (those are $36,000 if warranty didn't cover it). "Interestingly, Mossy Toyota didn't have the right lift to lift the car up for battery replacement and so they had to install a new lift in order to do the battery replacement".

Mossy doesn't seem to "up" on Rav4 EV maintenance to me.

http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=9276#p9276

 

[evbuddy]

5500 miles, 7 months
1 repair -> 3 weeks in the shop

Great car. Would still buy it (with incentives of course) for the purpose (commute). My ICE is a backup car (I am not giving up, I wont give up even had TESLA).

Driving is fun again. Less Breaking! no gas station visit.
only EV SUV
great range for commuting. I get 105 (cold weather) - 120 (warm weather) miles on standard charge.

 

[bruin nut]

I've had my Rav for almost 3 weeks. I have 800 miles on it. I "graduated" from a Volt, so I have some experience with charging and efficient driving.

I really like the vehicle and it is just as reliable as the Volt, and as the Honda Accord I owned earlier. I admit that I don't have the track record on the RAV. But I expect to it to be reliable and I expect the battery to be robust and not degrade during my 3-year lease. The Rav is sneaky fast. It is a detuned Tesla, after all.

I would recommend leasing the car for a few reasons:

The lease deals are much better than purchase deals.
The interest rate is zero.
You pay sales tax as you go, instead of up front.
You get the entire tax credit right away as a cap cost reduction.
You still get the HOV access.
You get CARB check of $2500
You get 3 years of Toyota Care.
You get to drive a Tesla for Toyota pricing.
In 3 years, you'll have the charger in your house and lots more charging options on the road.
In 3 years, you'll be able to choose from a wider variety of EV's than today.
In 3 years, if you still love the car, you can buy it for a damn good price ($19 k)
Starting in 2014 Fasttrak is free, even when traveling alone