Should Tesla HPWC Charging Stations be only for Teslas?

[swogee]

I know this question is likely to be a hotly debated topic, but I figured I would ask and see what the consensus is. It is also somewhat hypothetical since it assumes that a person would be able to find some sort of Tesla Models S HPWC to J1772 converter. The question only applies to the Tesla HPWC charging stations and not the Superchargers that are clearly designated for Tesla vehicles ONLY that have paid for the service and access.

I believe some Tesla HPWC locations are partially financed (free equipment) by Tesla in their Destination Charging Program so a person could then make the argument that since Tesla has paid for the charging station it should be for Tesla vehicles only. However, not all HPWC locations are in the Tesla Destination Charging program AFAIK.

On a side note I think there were some Tesla branded Clipper Creek charging stations that were originally partially financed by Tesla for roadsters that have mostly been converted to J1772 throughout CA as well. A few locations still have the original Tesla Roadster plug though.

Any thoughts or ideas are welcome.

 

[davewill]

Tesla might have supplied the equipment, but they don't own it once they give it to the site owner. Therefore I think it would be entirely up to the owner of the location. I'd hope they would feel that other EVs are OK, since Tesla owners can certainly use J1772 equipment. An adapter is conceptually simple just requiring the opposite of the Tesla J1772 adapter, although buying or making the Tesla receptacle it would need it non-trivial.

I do know there's a guy who makes a Tesla S to Roadster adapter, so it is certainly possible if enough people wanted one.

 

[TonyWilliams]

NOTE TO TMC FORUM PARTICIPANTS WHO WERE LINKED TO THIS THREAD:

I do not post on TMC because I have been blocked from doing so.

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Quick Charge Power is actively working on a Tesla UMC / HPC adaptor to plug into a J1772 car. Expect this fall / winter 2015:

 

[swogee]

I suppose the question will no longer be hypothetical then.

Will the Tesla HWPC to J1772 adapter be able to handle the full 80A current that that the HPWC can output?

BTW, I asked another manufacturer of Tesla adapters about the HPWC to J1772 and their reaction was rather interesting. They were under the belief that all auto manufacturer branded charging stations should be used by autos of that brand, or at least the brand should be given priority. For example, the Tesla HPWC should only be used by only Tesla vehicles and Nissan CHADEMO chargers should be used only by Nissan vehicles.

When the adapter does appear I think I would be interested in one depending on the price of course.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I suppose the question will no longer be hypothetical then.

Will the Tesla HWPC to J1772 adapter be able to handle the full 80A current that that the HPWC can output?

Yes, full 80 amp support.

BTW, I asked another manufacturer of Tesla adapters about the HPWC to J1772 and their reaction was rather interesting. They were under the belief that all auto manufacturer branded charging stations should be used by autos of that brand, or at least the brand should be given priority. For example, the Tesla HPWC should only be used by only Tesla vehicles and Nissan CHADEMO chargers should be used only by Nissan vehicles.

When the adapter does appear I think I would be interested in one depending on the price of course.

I suspect it will be around $200.

 

[reeler]

Count me in Tony for the adapter. I would love to use my Tesla charger for my RAV4.

 

[drdoug]

We'd be interested too - maybe with enough orders price drop some?

 

[TonyWilliams]

We'd be interested too - maybe with enough orders price drop some?

Like all these limited production products.... Relative big bucks and a lot of time to develop, with limited sales.

We need to recoup our investment first, which may be about the time competition shows up, so yes, that's when the price will likely drop.

 

[TonyWilliams]

http://www.fool.com/investing/general/2015/03/25/elon-musk-tesla-charging-locations-will-be-everywh.aspx

"Destination Charger (Tesla HPC) locations are expanding at a rapid and virtually exponential pace. In August 2014, there were only 106 locations globally. In January, Tesla had about 350 locations. Last week, Tesla said it had reached 902 locations -- 429 in North America and 473 in Asia-Pacific. At these locations, there are a total of 1,645 Wall Connectors."

 

[smkettner]

Count me in if the price is $200

 

[VQ EV]

Put me on the list also.

 

[Noel Ingle]

Tesla is giving the $750 HPWC to the business location. Then the business probably has the "opportunity" to spend a couple thousand more to install it. The business could care less what brand of EV their customer is driving. Tesla isn't going to waste their time trying to enforce it. A couple of the free HPWC recipients in my area didn't even bother installing their HPWC at the business location. Probably ended up in a pals garage charging his Model S.

 

[davewill]

Clearly up to the location owner. Specifically NOT up to Tesla or random Tesla owners. Absent signage or a request not to use a location, I wouldn't hesitate to plug in. If possible, I would let them know that I appreciate the plug, allowing them to know that a non-Tesla was using it, which they might not realize was possible.

That said, I'm probably not interested in the adapter since I've yet to even see an HPWC in public.

 

[drdoug]

your adapter will work for the wall outlet at 80amps - what about a supercharger?

 

[TonyWilliams]

your adapter will work for the wall outlet at 80amps - what about a supercharger?

Should the fees be paid to Tesla, we would be happy to create a Supercharger capable RAV4 EV.

I formally asked Tesla for this very access, and was not given an answer.

 

[drdoug]

sorry - maybe I should have asked the question differently...

will the adapter work at a supercharger with the RAV4 configured in its current state? (ie will it limit the amps/volts so as not to sort out the RAV4's system)....

 

[TonyWilliams]

sorry - maybe I should have asked the question differently...

will the adapter work at a supercharger with the RAV4 configured in its current state? (ie will it limit the amps/volts so as not to sort out the RAV4's system)....

Well, I think you have two questions. The adaptor that we will produce will allow you to physically plug into a Supercharger, and that's about it. It will not physically work (there's no DC connection through the J1772 port, and no electronics to make it work).

If the above were configured so that the RAV4 EV could charge on a Supercharger, it would likely not take the full 330 amps from the Supercharger for very long, if at all. The battery would have to be near fully depleted to come close to 330 amps.

At 300 battery volts when receiving a charge, that's about 100kW (slightly more than 2C). It would very quickly ramp down to perhaps 200-250 amps to about 50%, and continue to ramp down to 125 amps at 75% and zero amps at 100%.

I have no idea if the battery cooling system could handle this (presumably so, since it should be very similar to Tesla cars). It would be the absolute fastest that the battery could safely be charged, that's for sure!

The amperage profile would be a constantly decreasing, whereas at 125 amps from CHAdeMO, the battery can handle that until about 75%.

 

[Weekdayskier]

Just to clarify?

Tesla HPWC puts out 80 amps at 208 or 240 volts AC. The Rav4EV can handle 10kw, so with the adapter, it might use 50 amps of that power and charge about 40% faster than the standard 30 amp public J1772 chargers?

The superchargers are DC fast chargers. You would need a Tesla to Chademo PLUS Jdemo PLUS Tesla's permission and sharing of their handshake protocol. And why would Tesla want toyotas, nissans, kias, ect hogging their supercharger spots? I just don't see that ever happening.

 

[Incredulocious]

And why would Tesla want toyotas, nissans, kias, etc hogging their supercharger spots? I just don't see that ever happening.

Why? Because Tesla's goal, Elon's goal, is to get us off of burning oil/gas. He has publicly stated that he invites other auto manufacturers to buy into the Supercharger network:

http://techcrunch.com/2014/06/09/tesla-wants-to-open-its-supercharger-standard-to-other-electric-car-makers/

Now would the likes of Nissan, Kia, Toyota (ha!), etc. be willing to contribute in the Supercharger system??

It would also be amusing to watch the reaction of some of the more elitist Tesla owners discovering that Elon wants them to share.

 

[drdoug]

While I would love to pull my RAV4 into the Tesla supercharger that just opened around the corner - they do have 80amp AC chargers at the mall around the corner....will say - get lots of comments about the Tesla, but the comments we get in the RAV 4 EV (a rare site in this part of the world) from the Tesla owners makes us smile even more than the Tesla....'how'd you get that great car.' Even the Toyota dealer (and some of the local Toyota execs whom have seen it (we have the Toyota North American Parts Center here for a short time longer) wonder why its not being made/produced and continued to be sold

I agree - I hope Elon will gets his way - an EV (or two) in every garage! hope he finds a way to sell product to Toyota again, and to others around the world (as Mercedes is doing)....