Should I get this used Rav?

[Krystal]

Hi everyone, new poster here. I am trying to decide if I should get this used RAV at my local dealership and I wanted some opinions. Found this forum in a search.

2013, Silver.
Miles: 2,817
Sale Price: 44,500 (Will include the current $7,500 deal, but with standard Finance rates).
I'm not sure if I can get the CA rebate?

After $7,500, 36,500 + tax.

apparently the dealer used this car as a "Fleet rental," or so I'm told. It was never rented to the public. No services ever done.

What would you do? Thanks!

 

[cwerdna]

No.

Since it's used it won't qualify for the $7500 Federal tax credit (http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/taxevb.shtml) nor the $2500 CVRP (http://energycenter.org/index.php/incentive-programs/clean-vehicle-rebate-project/cvrp-eligible-vehicles). http://energycenter.org/index.php/incentive-programs/clean-vehicle-rebate-project/frequently-asked-questions-cvrp specifically says new for the CVRP.

Please also see http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=210 and http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=431&p=4916#p4916 (since you're in So Cal, Dianne's in Carson, CA).

 

[Charlestonleafer]

NO! You can get a new one cheaper! don't let them scam you!!!

 

[cwerdna]

OTOH, about the only reason one should buy a Rav4 EV used at a high price is if they don't have enough tax liability to qualify for the full $7500 Federal tax credit AND they can't "create" income/tax liability like by shifting (a whole bunch of) money from an IRA to a Roth IRA.

 

[Krystal]

NO! You can get a new one cheaper! don't let them scam you!!!

I don't understand, how would I be able to get a new one cheaper? The new one would be the 50k MSRP minus 7,500. That would be 42,500 as oppose to the 36,500. I do not qualify for the $7,500 tax credit in any way, so I would prolly go for a lease if it was a new one just to save the money.

I even checked Dianne's deals and they put the MSRP around 40k as well, seems if I go with this used one I save 4,000? I was also able to get the 10 year, 125,000 mile warranty to $2,490 and get the entire dashboard replaced for free.

Makes me wonder if there is something wrong with this one that they are doing so much.

 

[dipper]

Someone earlier suggested you move IRA/401k to Roth IRA. You could potentially make up that $7500 tax credit doing that. If you are not sure what we are talking about, talk to your accountant to get educated how to and how much to transfer to Roth IRA. You should do Roth IRA if opportunity presented itself... especially Roth IRA allows more options than 401k as an example... ie. you could buy/sell any stock/index and not get taxed at all, where a lot of IRA/401k restricts to certain funds/bonds purchase in that plan.

And CA gives rebate of $2500 regardless of income status.

So it comes out to $30k car.

Hope this helps.

 

[cwerdna]

NO! You can get a new one cheaper! don't let them scam you!!!

I don't understand, how would I be able to get a new one cheaper? The new one would be the 50k MSRP minus 7,500. That would be 42,500 as oppose to the 36,500. I do not qualify for the $7,500 tax credit in any way, so I would prolly go for a lease if it was a new one just to save the money.

So, you don't have enough tax liability to qualify for the $7500 Federal tax credit?

As I pointed out, you should be able to create income/tax liability by shifting some $ into a Roth IRA. I found http://taxes.about.com/od/retirementtaxes/a/Roth-IRA-Conversions.htm on this. I'm no tax expert (not even close) but I did move some traditional IRA $ into a Roth IRA via that method in 2012 but not for the purpose of buying an EV or PHEV. And yes, I had to pay tax on that.

The lease deals on the Rav4 EV are horrible partly (?) due to Toyota not passing on the Federal tax credit savings onto you. This is unlike what Nissan does w/the Leaf on their lease deals.

 

[ground_gainer]

[deleted] - I misread his post.

 

[AvLegends]

As I pointed out, you should be able to create income/tax liability by shifting some $ into a Roth IRA. I found http://taxes.about.com/od/retirementtaxes/a/Roth-IRA-Conversions.htm on this. I'm no tax expert (not even close) but I did move some traditional IRA $ into a Roth IRA via that method in 2012 but not for the purpose of buying an EV or PHEV. And yes, I had to pay tax on that.

I would think this only works if you have a bunch of money in a IRA. Not everybody has a lot of money in an IRA... I certainly dont and I know others that are self employed that don't either. When I started mine in the early 90's and the market tanked in the 2000's I stopped contributing. Why throw money into a declining market. Bought real estate instead...

Wished many times I had a W2 job but working for myself has offered many benefits! Having a big fat retirement account or a gov't pension is not one of them but I do have rentals that hopefully will help me thru the golden years...

Just saying that everybody's situation is different... as said above, consult your tax professional for what is best for you!

 

[AvLegends]

There has been used 2012's with around 3k miles offered in the mid to low 30's... if this deal passes by there will be others... keep looking!

 

[foxwiz]

NO! You can get a new one cheaper! don't let them scam you!!!

I don't understand, how would I be able to get a new one cheaper? The new one would be the 50k MSRP minus 7,500. That would be 42,500 as oppose to the 36,500. I do not qualify for the $7,500 tax credit in any way, so I would prolly go for a lease if it was a new one just to save the money.

I even checked Dianne's deals and they put the MSRP around 40k as well, seems if I go with this used one I save 4,000? I was also able to get the 10 year, 125,000 mile warranty to $2,490 and get the entire dashboard replaced for free.

Makes me wonder if there is something wrong with this one that they are doing so much.

If you do get the vehicle, DO NOT PAY $2,490 for the warranty. I just purchased a RAV4 EV from the dealer and I got them as low as $1,125. This price is close to their cost. Search around: Do a Google search on the extended warranty and you will see what I mean.

 

[TonyWilliams]

DO NOT BUY THIS 2012 USED VEHICLE WHEN YOU CAN BUY A NEW ONE CHEAPER.

The $7500 discount matches what a new 2013 would have. Since you claim that you don't qualify for any tax credit (you don't work, or pay ANY federal tax???), then new or used won't matter. Please don't confuse the Toyota $7500 discount with the federal tax CREDIT of $7500.

In addition, I don't see ANY discount from the dealer in this. I expect a scam dealer like this has even more surprises... maybe "mandatory" security system, etc.

Regardless, YOU WILL NOT GET $2500 from the state of California for a used car.

Plus, that warranty price is nothing but robbery. Your car is covered under warranty. If you decide you need to extend it, BUY IT JUST BEFORE YOUR CURRENT ONE EXPIRES for half that price from ANY dealer.

*******************

Leasing a new 2013 Rav4 EV might be smarter, assuming you really have ZERO federal tax liability, plus you will still get $2500 state money. You won't need an extended warranty on a lease, of course, but I'm sure a dealership will try and sell you one!!! They will take as much of your money as you give them.

The only variable is how many miles you drive. If it is below the lease miles (which I think is only about 10,000 miles/year), you're in great shape.

I'll be curious to see how you would qualify for a lease with no taxable income (maybe tax free disability income?).

 

[AvLegends]

Since you claim that you don't qualify for any tax credit (you don't work, or pay ANY federal tax???)

I'll be curious to see how you would qualify for a lease with no taxable income (maybe tax free disability income?).

I qualified for a 0 down 650/mo payment with my Rav4 EV (I had a trade-in) without the tax liability for the $7500 credit. I could have qualified for even more of a payment. I do work... even though the GF thinks going to the airport every day is more like play than work!

Having depreciation can be a big factor when self employed. Recent business loss due to unforeseen economic climate is another reason... Every situation is different. As I said before please consult a tax professional when making economic decisions... not the advise given on the internet.

 

[Dsinned]

I suspect this is NOT actually a 2013 model, if it is coming out of a dealer's rental service fleet. It is really most likely a 2012 with that many miles on it.

Some new owners I know of here in the SF Bay Area are still getting close to $9k off sticker on the 2013 models, AND 0% APR financing, plus the IRS tax credit ($7500) and CA rebate ($2500) incentives. Leases have never been attractive on RAV4 EVs.

I was not aware of any such high mileage (125k miles - 10 year) extended warranty as you mentioned, available from Toyota, but for any such similar long term warranty coverage, you would most likely pay A LOT less by getting it online from ACTON Toyota, which I think is located back East. It is exactly the same extended warranty you can get from any Toyota dealership, even if you buy the car somewhere else. Search for the ACTON Toyota's contact info here on this forum, as I know this was posted a couple times before.

 

[Krystal]

Holy crap! So many responses, thank you everyone!

That said, it seems I am getting some confused responses.

I will reiterate, that I do not qualify for the 7,500$ tax credit, and I am not confusing the Toyota credit with the rebate at all - that's silly. It is definitely a 2013, as the Sticker is still on the window even though the car has plates, and I verified the miles and the VIN number myself because at first I thought the deal was too good to be true.

I'd rather not explain my income situation, just know that I don't qualify for the tax credit so I'd rather not even consider the $7,500 a factor - it would end up being around 400$ credit, not even worth noting. And after speaking with the kind people over at CVRP I may be able to qualify for the $2,500 as well.

The discount I am seeing is 7,200, plus the dashboard replacement, + the 7,500 rebate afterwards. Are you guys saying I can get $7,200 off a NEW 2013? If so, that would be great!

Thanks for the Heads Up on the Warranty. I am planning on keeping this vehicle so I will look around for a better warranty deal.

 

[Dsinned]

I just recently met with a fellow member here who as I recall told me he got $8800 off MSRP on a 2013 model. I believe the Toyota dealer he bought from is in Redwood City, off Bayshore Freeway (101) on the SF Peninsula. I believe he also got 0% APR financing, and yes, he has a "2013".

Btw, what is this "dashboard replacement" thing you mentioned. I don't believe any of us here know what that might be for on a new 2013. Please explain.

 

[user 340]

I just recently met with a fellow member here who as I recall told me he got $8800 off MSRP on a 2013 model. I believe the Toyota dealer he bought from is in Redwood City, off Bayshore Freeway (101) on the SF Peninsula. I believe he also got 0% APR financing, and yes, he has a "2013".

Yes, that is all correct - that member is me. The $8800 was a factory rebate that was good through June 3. I think that it has been reduced to about $7500 now, but I'm not sure. I also got about $2K extra off the price as a discount from the dealer.

Btw, what is this "dashboard replacement" thing you mentioned. I don't believe any of us here know what that might be for on a new 2013. Please explain.

Yes, please do tell! Is there a problem with that particular car, or is this something more generic?

 

[Krystal]

I just recently met with a fellow member here who as I recall told me he got $8800 off MSRP on a 2013 model. I believe the Toyota dealer he bought from is in Redwood City, off Bayshore Freeway (101) on the SF Peninsula. I believe he also got 0% APR financing, and yes, he has a "2013".

I don't think I am being understood correctly, if I include all rebates and MSRP reductions to this vehicle I am getting a total of $14,800 off the price, as the Rebate and MSRP discount are included. I don't see a jump that big happening on a new one unless I qualified for the tax credit. Sorry for not being clear. I was hoping I could get the 7,200 + the 7,500 (current) rebate off a NEW 2013, but it seems the most I am going to get off a new 2013 is around 10k, and this used one comes out to a better deal for me, especially if I can weasel in the CA rebate.

Btw, what is this "dashboard replacement" thing you mentioned. I don't believe any of us here know what that might be for on a new 2013. Please explain.

[/quote]

The dashboard had some minor cosmetic scuffs on it from stickers that were placed on it to inform dealer personnel of electric vehicle stuff. Since they left residue when they took them off, and I saw a scratch on the lower temperature screen, they just offered to replace the whole surface - which I said would be great if I get the car.

 

[ufojoe]

Used= $44,500 [Moderator EDIT: there is no California rebate for used cars, therefore I've eliminated it keep being mentioned as "possible". It's not. Tony]

New= $50,000 minus $7500 (rebate) minus $7500 (Fed Tax) Minus $2500 (state rebate) = $32,500

This scenario doesn't even include haggling for a better price.

Even if you can't qualify for the fed break, you're still better off buying new IMHO.

 

[TonyWilliams]

... Sorry for not being clear. I was hoping I could get the 7,200 + the 7,500 (current) rebate off a NEW 2013, but it seems the most I am going to get off a new 2013 is around 10k, and this used one comes out to a better deal for me, especially if I can weasel in the CA rebate.

Please use uniform terms that we can all understand. Note that the only variable is the dealer discount, and is it NEW or USED.

MSRP: $51k-ish
Dealer discount: $ ????

Standard stuff:

Toyota "subvention" cash: NEW $7500, USED $0
Interest: NEW 0% from Toyota Finance, something higher for USED or dealer "offering"
CA rebate: NEW $2500, USED $0

If you think that the CCSE told you that you "might" get $2500 on a used car, you heard wrong.