rav4 ev based on model s

[evbuddy]

I was under the impression that the RAV4 EV was based on Tesla Roadster components. I ran into a Tesla Engineer yesterday, he complimented me nice car! and told me he was in the design team.

We chatted a bit. He noted that All the components are from model s package, only motor (and battery pack offcourse) is bit smaller.

 

[mikegerard]

It would make sense that they are using the same components. Tesla has a tire repair kit that looks identical to what I see in the back of the RAV4. So your purchase of the RAV4 probably supported some engineering work that ultimately went into the S.

In a previous job I did some design work on digital cameras. It was always neat to see one in the wild and talk to the owner about what they liked about the product.

 

[TonyWilliams]

... purchase of the RAV4 probably supported some engineering work that ultimately went into the S.

I'd guess the reverse is true. They didn't spend any significant time or effort reengineering the Model S bits for the Rav4 EV. It's mostly a bolt in. The motor / inverter / gear box / DC to DC / brains are all dropped right out of the Model S.

Yes, the pack is significantly different, and my understanding was the early prototypes used the Roadster cells (2200ma 18650 Panasonic) and I know they used the Roadster plug to charge it. I strongly suspect we ended up with the 2900ma cells (and the Model S uses 3100ma).

The Rav4 was always a "one trick pony" from its inception with Tesla guys at a Toyota dealership trying to pick which car to make into a California compliance car (not made up... that's how they picked the Rav4 Gen II).

Tesla did their best NOT to share trade secrets with Toyota, and I absolutely guarantee that Toyota did not get "top shelf" on all the parts. Check out that Denso 6kW resistance heater in the $50k Rav4 EV... even the upper model 2013 LEAF at about 2/3 the price uses a heat pump, as does every Model S.

They had the whole thing running in about 90 days!!! That's not development; that's plug and play. Total time with crash testing, etc; 2 years (that's smoking fast in the car business).

No, there not likely anything from Rav4 that carried over to the Model S/X. Only the reverse.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Here's my Rav4 with the covers removed showing the Tesla Model S motor (on the left) and inverter on the right. The gear reduction box is in the middle:

Here's the Model S:

 

[mikegerard]

I'd guess the reverse is true. They didn't spend any significant time or effort reengineering the Model S bits for the Rav4 EV. It's mostly a bolt in. The motor / inverter / gear box / DC to DC / brains are all dropped right out of the Model S.

That makes sense...I had my timing backwards on when the Model S and RAV4 were being developed.

The RAV4 must have been a skunkworks project. Pick a car, modify the shell to make it more aerodynamic. Use parts from other cars (side mirrors) if you can. Make sure the car is big enough to fit the Tesla parts in it. Do it quick and don't spend too much money. That would have been a fun project to work on. Lots of the traditional corporate rules get tossed aside on a project like this.

I'm still really surprised that the demand is so low....especially last month when they had those huge incentives. I would have thought they could sell 100x what they sold in April with the deals they were giving.

Mike

 

[dipper]

I was surprised Toyota did not share with Tesla the soon to be Prius V as a candidate.

To me, it screamed perfect car. Got the best areo setup without re-design. Got a name plate that screams buy me for gas saving.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I'm still really surprised that the demand is so low....especially last month when they had those huge incentives. I would have thought they could sell 100x what they sold in April with the deals they were giving.

I fully think that there was a pent up demand for a far superior Rav4 EV Gen II, after hundreds tried to buy the Gen I Rav4 at the conclusion of what was supposed to be a closed end lease. Heck, Toyota even cobbled together a few after the CARB rules no longer required them to build any and sold them. It was hit and miss if those last cars were each the same, but it was new Rav4 EV's rolling out the door.

I think what changed is simple; competition. Tesla is selling the same hardware in a sexy package at DOUBLE the cost, and they are at peak production of 500 per week. Rav4 EV hasn't sold 500 TOTAL since inception on Sept 24, 2012.

RANT ON:
I have to be honest; I only bought the car because of the Tesla drivetrain. The ride quality is not so smooth and the interior sucks for a $50k car. It's a phased out body style, and Toyota openly doesn't support EVs. No spare tire is just DUMB, too, but that seems to be the EV norm. 120 volt / 12 amp EVSE? Three miles per HOUR???? Are you kidding me when there is onboard capabilty of a 40 amp / 277 volt charger? The same EVSE that Toyota uses in their 11 mile range Plug-In Prius (while Tesla supplies full 40 amp EVSE in their cars). Yippee!! Gas gauge that stops at 80% full??? What brain surgeon thought that made sense? A resistance heater in a $50k EV ???... even the LEAF at about 2/3 the price offers a heat pump. Plus, I always thought the Rav4's were girl cars.
RANT OFF

I'm getting tired of constantly driving it to the dealership for 5000 mile checkups, plus the MULTITUDE of failures on the car. Toyota needs to still sell over 2000 of these CARB-ZEV compliance cars, and it isn't going to be a walk in the park even if the car were perfect. But, as I'm increasingly coming to find, the car's faults and soon to be competition of premium EVs (Infiniti, BMW i3) in this price segment looks to me like storms on the high seas.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I was surprised Toyota did not share with Tesla the soon to be Prius V as a candidate.

To me, it screamed perfect car. Got the best areo setup without re-design. Got a name plate that screams buy me for gas saving.

That car wasn't available then, and it probably would not easily fit the battery / drivetrain designed for a full size car (Model S / X).

Heck, they couldn't even wait for their upcoming 2013 Rav4 !!!! CARB-ZEV Phase III is 2012 through 2014 model years, and Toyota needed to pump this out in 2012.

You'll note that a LOT of 2012 model were sold in 2013. There's a reason. The actual report with how many ZEV's sold in Calfornia is sent to CARB from the VLM's (Very Large Manufacturers) in May of each year... right now!!

 

[cwerdna]

I think Toyota spent more than 90 days.

I was surprised Toyota did not share with Tesla the soon to be Prius V as a candidate.

To me, it screamed perfect car. Got the best areo setup without re-design. Got a name plate that screams buy me for gas saving.

That car wasn't available then, and it probably would not easily fit the battery / drivetrain designed for a full size car (Model S / X).

At Green Drive Expo 2011 (9/17/11), we could test drive the Prius v wagon there, before it shipped. The day before the official opening of the expo, Toyota announced the pricing (http://pressroom.toyota.com/releases/toyota+announces+pricing+2012+prius+v+prius+plugin+hybrid+vehicles.htm). Toyota had done a little show and tell around the country w/the Prius v but we weren't allowed to test drive it. I have some pics of one of those in WA state from 2/19/11, where I briefly met evnow and a Priuschatter.

Back to the 9/17/11 expo, there was a Tesla-based Rav4 EV on display, but nobody was allowed to test drive it. It was indoors the whole time. It might've even had Tesla badging on plastic covers (memory foggy, didn't take pics), instead of Toyota.

As I posted at http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=3540#p3540, Toyota posted some interesting videos about the Rav4 EV's development. You can follow the link from there.

I do suspect Tony's right. I don't think the Prius v was in a state where Toyota was ready at the start of the Rav4 EV project (whenever that was) and that Toyota wanted to take a risk. IIRC (from one of the videos), Toyota did go over their whole product portfolio w/Tesla and Tesla chose the Rav4 as being the best choice.

 

[Jscifres]

Toyota did go over their whole product portfolio w/Tesla and Tesla chose the Rav4 as being the best choice.

I'm glad they did... because I've had no problems to date and I love my insanely zippy $30,000 grocery getter (with 0% financing for 5 years).