Portable 40A EVSE for $361 versus Leviton for $1500

[sobayimage]

I bought a portable 40 amp EVSE from Electric Motors Werks with power cord and J1772 with cable and assembled it for $361 and it works fine. I opened my Leviton 40 amp EVSE and it appears much the same as the EMW EVSE. Where Leviton put the additional $1149 must be hidden under their printed circuit board.
http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u676/sobayimage/Basewithpowercord_zpscdd66544.jpg
http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u676/sobayimage/LevitonEVSE_zps85254ed6.jpg

 

[TonyWilliams]

I bought a portable 40 amp EVSE from Electric Motors Werks with power cord and J1772 with cable and assembled it for $361 and it works fine. I opened my Leviton 40 amp EVSE and it appears much the same as the EMW EVSE. Where Leviton put the additional $1149 must be hidden under their printed circuit board.
http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u676/sobayimage/Basewithpowercord_zpscdd66544.jpg
http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u676/sobayimage/LevitonEVSE_zps85254ed6.jpg

All the basic parts are the same for all of the EVSE's. Does that price include the cables and J1772 plug? I like the Hammond cast aluminum boxes.

Here is my Clipper Creek pumping out 42 amps in my Rav4:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=248883#p248883

Your EMW unit:

The Leviton unit: Could you please get the identifying information off the relay in that box?

 

[fooljoe]

Awesome! And I thought I was getting a great deal on my $500 open-EVSE. Although, to be fair, from the EMW store if you get the "base assembled" juicebox ($249) and a 25' 70A cable ($229) that comes out to $478, and you still need to add a plug, unless of course you're hardwiring. You didn't get the 32A-rated cable did you?

My actual cost on the open-EVSE was $275 to GlennD at the Leaf forum and $150 for the cable, but I got that from a friend. And I already had a plug to put on it. Of course I get a nice LCD and a button to select options like amperage on-the-go.

Great to see prices on these things coming down!

 

[4EVEREV]

I bought a portable 40 amp EVSE from Electric Motors Werks with power cord and J1772 with cable and assembled it for $361 and it works fine. I opened my Leviton 40 amp EVSE and it appears much the same as the EMW EVSE. Where Leviton put the additional $1149 must be hidden under their printed circuit board.
http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u676/sobayimage/Basewithpowercord_zpscdd66544.jpg
http://i1327.photobucket.com/albums/u676/sobayimage/LevitonEVSE_zps85254ed6.jpg

The issue I have with EMW was their complete arrogant disregard of safety in place of cost cutting and profit. When the Juice box was announced it had no GFCI protection and they were not intending to add it. It took bad PR and the voice of responsible people to force them to add this feature. GFCI is a primary safety feature of an EVSE and they made the decision to leave it out. Fundamentally I could never give a dime to a company that puts the safety of their customers second over profit and cost cutting, this says quite a bit about their ethics and business culture. In addition they made it sound like a simple $99 product and mislead uniformed customers through sneaky marketing that is was a low cost EVSE.

Your average consumer should not be assembling equipment like this and hopefully there will not be any fires from poor connections and installations. I hear people mention they are going to get this unit and "save lots of money" and they have no clue it even needs an added cord nor should some of these people even be allowed to handle a screw driver. I'm sure they have cleaned up their act a bit but it was more of a result of being forced to do so and they still have voiced a misdirected attitude toward safety, clearly a concern when selling HV equipment that is supposed to provide safety to consumers not added risk and liability. For the skilled DIY this is not usually an issue but the average penny saving consumer could get into much trouble here. I fully support DIY projects like Open EVSE but not these kind "forget the safety features" low-ball marketing products with profit ahead of safety and consumers.

The Leviton unit is costly because it is limited production, built to UL standards, and designed by professional engineers with the actual intended EVSE safety features in place. This also includes the cost of liability insurance, UL testing, professional support, and reputation of a large company on the line. Don't get me wrong, I would not buy a Leviton EVSE but I can't support irresponsible people in the EV space either.

 

[TonyWilliams]

... from the EMW store if you get the "base assembled" juicebox ($249) and a 25' 70A cable ($229)

The only "70 amp" cord that I'm familiar with is the DoStar/Uchen one (of which several dozen have passed through my hands), and that is now rated at 50 amps.

 

[fooljoe]

The only "70 amp" cord that I'm familiar with is the DoStar/Uchen one (of which several dozen have passed through my hands), and that is now rated at 50 amps.

Yeah, from what I can tell from the pics it looks as if EMW is selling the same one as TucsonEV, which is no longer rated at 70A. Perhaps they just haven't updated their website. Whatever the case, the takeaway is the same - if you're buying from EMW and want to charge at 40 amps, make sure you buy the more expensive cord that they're calling 70 amp.

 

[Tadol]

I looked at the EMW site very carefully, and determined that it was too hard to figure out exactly what they were selling, what the costs were, when they were shipping, and how smoothly it would work. I like to save money, but when Tony said he'd make up more of his units, it was an extremely easy decision about what I'd get - and its coming tomorrow. Thanks Tony!

 

[TonyWilliams]

I looked at the EMW site very carefully, and determined that it was too hard to figure out exactly what they were selling, what the costs were, when they were shipping, and how smoothly it would work. I like to save money, but when Tony said he'd make up more of his units, it was an extremely easy decision about what I'd get - and its coming tomorrow. Thanks Tony!

You're very welcome. I did follow along when two VERY knowledgeable folks publically challenged Valerie from EMW about his safety shortcomings to keep the price low.

I really don't like bait and switch, and that's what selling an EVSE for $99 (original price) is. Heck, I paid more than $99 for the Square D relay in my OpenEVSE.

 

[sobayimage]

An EVSE in its basic form is a on/off switch controlled by signals from the car. I like the Electric Motors Werks unit because it layout is well thought out and made to meet different levels of charging involvement you want to have from remote signaling to a LED readout. I opted for the basic unit that you partially assemble (small bit of soldering and bolting together) for $149 with a 50 amp input cable plug for $23 and a 50 amp J1772 cable for $189. A highly portable (with variable input current control) EVSE for $361 is reasonable. Time will tell as to how much use I get out of it but it will sure beats the 57 hours needed for a full charge by the EVSE that came with my RAV4. Valery at Electric Motor Werks suggests you check for any poor connections with an infrared temperature meter, a great and simple safety measure.

 

[fooljoe]

How does that "variable input current control" work with the Juicebox? Since the basic unit doesn't have any display or buttons, I presume you have to re-load the firmware each time you want to change it, correct?

 

[sobayimage]

If you look at the photo of the Electric Motor Werks EVSE (second reply to this posting above shows the EMW EVSE in the second photo of the group) it shows an orange variable input resistor control on the printed circuit board just to the right of the power supply (top left in the box). The orange variable input limit resistor rotates 180 degrees and for 220 volts input setting it works as follows: 15 amps is 45 degrees from left, 30 amps is 90 degrees straight up and 40 amps is 120 degrees to the right and 180 degrees full right for maximum current.

 

[argosyauto]

I also have ordered and waiting for the EMW JuiceBox basic. One question: Is the variable input limits programmable or hard coded to 15A, 30A, 40A and 60A? I have planned to use 24A pilot for the common 30A dryer circuit but it is not part of the preset limits. Can you comment?

 

[fooljoe]

I also have ordered and waiting for the EMW JuiceBox basic. One question: Is the variable input limits programmable or hard coded to 15A, 30A, 40A and 60A? I have planned to use 24A pilot for the common 30A dryer circuit but it is not part of the preset limits. Can you comment?

Yeah, those settings seem really silly. Any adjustable EVSE should have, at the very least, settings for 15, 20, 30, 40, and 50 amp circuits (i.e. 12, 16, 24, 32, and 40 amps.) Even openEVSE is stupid in the respect, as by default it comes with settings in 5 amp increments.

For my openEVSE, I modified the source code to allow any setting in 2 amp increments from 6 to 40 amps, and since the juicebox is also open source I'm sure you can do similar. Unfortunately, this modification is not exactly user-friendly. I or EMW's support can probably help you identify which part of the source you'd need to change, but for the actual reprogramming you'll probably need to purchase a special usb adapter cable so you can connect the juicebox's circuit board to your computer and use the Arduino software (free download) to reflash it.

 

[argosyauto]

That's good to know. I did order the programming cable to access the firmware. It is open source so changes can be made.

 

[valerun]

Hi Guys - Valery from EMotorWerks here.

...just came across this thread in search for some RAV4EV battery info.

Please feel free to contact us anytime if you have any questions. As to some safety points Tony mentioned - we have addressed those before the KickStarter campaign was over - or about 4 months prior to Tony's posting. All units regardless of version have GFCI now

 

[MaxFalco]

Hi All,

First of all I want to thank everyone for such a great forum. This is my first post but I have been taking it all in for a while now. I finally decided to jump in both as an active member of this forum and as a new RAV4 EV owner (I take delivery later this week).

I do need to confirm one thing. Right now my plan is to just use the JESLA for home charging. My dryer (which is next to where I park) has an open outlet which has probably been there since the house was built in the 70's. The plug appears to be a NEMA 10-30 and on it says 30A/125/250V (see image). Can I use this with the JESLA and this adapter from the TESLA website?

http://shop.teslamotors.com/collections/model-s-charging-adapters/products/nema-10-30

 

[davewill]

... I do need to confirm one thing. Right now my plan is to just use the JESLA for home charging. My dryer (which is next to where I park) has an open outlet which has probably been there since the house was built in the 70's. The plug appears to be a NEMA 10-30 and on it says 30A/125/250V (see image). Can I use this with the JESLA and this adapter from the TESLA website?

http://shop.teslamotors.com/collections/model-s-charging-adapters/products/nema-10-30

I assume you have a gas dryer? (If not, then the outlet shouldn't be available) Anyway, should be no problem using the Tesla 10-30 adapter. However, if I was using an outlet that old, I'd take the time to remove the cover plate and inspect the wiring, or have an electrician do so. Make sure the circuit is dedicated (doesn't also feed any other outlets). I'd replace the outlet if it shows signs of wear or corrosion.

 

[TonyWilliams]

... NEMA 10-30 and on it says 30A/125/250V (see image). Can I use this with the JESLA and this adapter from the TESLA website?

http://shop.teslamotors.com/collections/model-s-charging-adapters/products/nema-10-30

Yes, of course, you can use that adapter with that socket. Always, always, always check to make sure ANY socket / receptacle does not get hot with use, particularly ones that may not meet code (older house) or were installed in production / tract homes where everything is built to the absolute cheapest cost.

When you attach the respective $45 plug, the JESLA will automatically provide the following amperage:

............................................VOLTS / AMPS.......kW
NEMA 5-15 .......Standard Outlet.. 120 V / 12 A...... 1.4 kW
NEMA 5-20 ...... Motel air conditioner 120/16A....... 1.9 kW
NEMA 10-30......Older Dryers..... 240 V / 24 A...... 5.8 kW <<<<<
NEMA 14-30......Newer Dryers..... 240 V / 24 A...... 5.8 kW
NEMA 6-50 .......Welding Equip.... 240 V / 40 A...... 9.6 kW
NEMA 14-50......RVs and Camps.. 240 V / 40 A...... 9.6 kW


Miles Gained per Hour Charging @ 87.5% charger efficiency
70F Ambient temperature - hotter or colder will decrease miles gained

--------------------------------------- 2.7 miles/kWh - 3.4 miles/kWh
------------ Amps/Volts -- Where ------ City Drive ----- 65mph

NEMA 5-15 - 12 / 120 ------- Any ------ 2.8 miles ------ 3.5 miles (North American wall socket)
NEMA 5-20 - 16 / 120 ------ Motels ---- 3.8 miles ------ 4.7 miles (motel air conditioners)
NEMA 10-30- 24 / 240 ------ Home ---- 13.6 miles ----- 17.7 miles (old style dryer outlet) <<<<
NEMA 14-30- 24 / 240 ------ Home ---- 13.6 miles ----- 17.7 miles (new style dryer outlet)
J1772 ------- 30 / 208 ------ Public ---- 14.8 miles ----- 18.7 miles (typical public J1772)
J1772 ------- 30 / 240 ------ Home ---- 17.1 miles ----- 21.6 miles (rare 240 volt public J1772)
NEMA 6-50 -- 40 / 240 ------ Home ---- 22.7 miles ----- 28.5 miles (welder outlet)
NEMA 14-50- 40 / 240 ------ Home ---- 22.7 miles ----- 28.5 miles (RV park "50 amp service")

 

[fooljoe]

One thing you might want to consider is getting this Tesla adapter instead and this dryer cord from Amazon. Then you can attach this receptacle on the end of the dryer cord and you'll have a little extra length (my dryer plug was kinda hard to reach being behind the washer and dryer) and you'll have a more modern plug to use out in the wild.

 

[TonyWilliams]

As to some safety points Tony mentioned - we have addressed those before the KickStarter campaign was over - or about 4 months prior to Tony's posting. All units regardless of version have GFCI now

Great to hear. Looking forward to the next innovation from you for the betterment of all EV-kind !!!