My 12V battery died

[KurtManz]

Preamble: i did read and post the other threads about 12V, just staring a new thread to hopefully catch a few experienced eyes in case anybody has any advice. I'll be sharing my experience for the next person that comes along with such an issue.
Original thread is here: http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2245

Well... I'm a late comer... in many ways...
I got the 2014 model only a year ago (end of lease)
Today the car did not start. Same symptoms described here: No start, "check air bag", "Check EV system", Dim cabin lights.
I had the car jumped and was able to drive home.

The Check EV system warning message did not clear.

When I got home I checked the battery:
14V+ when on (so charging system seems to work).
12V when off...

I came to look for wisdom and after reading the battery threads I went back to check again. Battery down to 10V...
So I've taken out the battery... I'll find a replacement tomorrow.

Any advice or tips on what to do after replacing the battery once the error codes started?
I've read comments here and there that seem to suggest:
1. May need to clear error codes. Any ideas how?
2. May cause some real damage to the computer. *sigh*
3. Some procedure to reinstall the battery beyond boot and wait?


For the people who have gone past the "battery failed and got lots of error codes"
Any specific advice or stories on how to solve if either one of those happen?
I'm in Seattle, so if I have to get to a Toyota tech I'd have to start working on getting a tech scheduled...

thanks!

Next day update: Got an Optima Group 35 as recommended the next morning (~$250 from local Oreily auto shop). The car started up fine but the "Check EV system" light did not go away.
I'm now starting the saga of getting in touch with Toyota to see when a tech can take a look at it.
The car drives normally, even at 40mph. So hopefully the battery holds and it's just a warning light (fingers crossed)

 

[smkettner]

I would drive the car a few days or week and see if the light goes out.
Or simply turn off the car and disconnect the battery a few hours and reconnect. It may reset doing this in normal conditions.

Yes my battery was dead every few days for a while due to malfunction that Toyota could not find until about the fourth tow truck.

 

[TonyWilliams]

1) I recommend a Group 24F battery, not the smaller Group 35.

2) Starting a new thread to hash over the same problems doesn’t sound like a good idea.

*********

Rav4 EV 12 volt Battery recommendations:

Woke up to a dead RAV4 yesterday, the 12V was toast. Wouldn't even trickle charge. I bought the Bosch and replaced it. That's when all the problems started. At first, it wouldn't even slip into gear and I was getting all sorts of errors - EV System errors, airbag errors, power steering errors. After countless reboots, an hour on the J1772 charger, and more reboots, it finally returned to semi-normalcy and could at least drive it. But the EV System errors persisted, and this morning I took it in to the dealer.

Please, PLEASE, folks. Replace that original Toyota battery now... while this story is fresh in your mind.

You’re going to replace it anyway, and that replacement Bosch battery isn’t going to get any cheaper!

Please, stop the madness. Replace your Toyota battery, even if you’re too cheap or lazy to do so.

1) AGM (not flooded acid cells like the original)

2) Group 24F size

3) 60 amp/hour rating

https://m.pepboys.com/search/?term=bosch+24f+60ah+agm

Pep Boys # 0838890

Bosch S6508B S6 or Exide Edge FP-AGM24F battery with the correct specs is $150-$180. Units are built by Enersys.

Autozone also has a competing battery, built by Johnson Controls called Duralast Platinum for about $200:

https://www.autozone.com/batteries-starting-and-charging/battery/duralast-platinum-battery/547127_188710_25697

**************

What is lost and needs to be reset with a 12 volt disconnect:

http://www.myrav4ev.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=20859#p20859

1) Stored radio / SiriusXM stations will remain, however your last station listened to will likely be gone

2) Cell phone pairings are not 100%, so I would check. i have had to delete my phone (and the car from my phone) and re-pair it

3) Map display mode

4) Volume of navigation voice notifications

5) Random play modes

6) Charge schedule will be retained, but it won't work without hitting the "SAVE" button on the previous screen

7) state selection from destination address page

 

[asavage]

Next day update: Got an Optima Group 35 as recommended the next morning (~$250 from local Oreily auto shop). The car started up fine but the "Check EV system" light did not go away.
I'm now starting the saga of getting in touch with Toyota to see when a tech can take a look at it.
The car drives normally, even at 40mph. So hopefully the battery holds and it's just a warning light (fingers crossed)

Kurt, any update?

 

[KurtManz]

The end of that story was that it was just a warning light that didn't clear itself up.
I ended up taking it to Toyota (of Kirkland), schedule a traveling mechanic.
They reset the warning "on the tesla side" (to make sure I knew it was "not their fault") for a 'mere' $150 which was not covered under the Toyota warranty because it was a "software update"...

*sigh*… so lesson learned... don't let the 12v battery run out.

 

[user 340]

I ended up taking it to Toyota, schedule a traveling mechanic.
They reset the warning "on the tesla side" (to make sure I knew it was "not their fault") for a 'mere' $150 which was not covered under the Toyota warranty because it was a "software update"...

Now THAT is taking ownership of a problem! Funny, but my car has only 1 emblem or name on the front or rear - it says Toyota, and they have worked hard to hide the Tesla name in our cars.

 

[KurtManz]

So here's the post-credits scene...

Toyota national called to ask me how things had gone with my experience with the repair of the car..

I mentioned that they had fixed the problem, but that I was kind of disappointed that they had charged me $150 to reset a warning light.

I understood they had found nothing wrong... but the car's diagnostics said something's wrong... which in and on itself *is* something wrong.
I may have gone a bit too Zen on that conversation.

About a week later they called me and offered me a 'one time courtesy' to refund the $150... so according to that I should receive a check in 4-6 weeks...

it's good to see they're willing to take care of customers of these unique cars...

 

[smkettner]

I am still waiting for my $200+ refund for wrongly charging for a 12v battery replacement on the basis that it was aftermarket and too large.
(it was the gateway computer)
Phooey on Toyota.

 

[davewill]

I am still waiting for my $200+ refund for wrongly charging for a 12v battery replacement on the basis that it was aftermarket and too large.
(it was the gateway computer)
Phooey on Toyota.

Do you mean they promised one and didn't send it, or that you just deserve one?

 

[smkettner]

No promises. Just poor diagnostics. New 12v battery installed. I protested but Carson Toyota said it was fixed. They had it a week and I was out of town. I begged them to test drive daily. They refused. Two days later it was on a tow truck to Irvine Toyota.

Reminded me of the old days of just replacing parts until by random chance the vehicle keeps running. I had laid it all out for them but I am just another idiot customer :roll: :evil:

The 12 volt battery was 2 weeks old. The Bosch group 24 AGM. Perfectly good new 12v battery.

 

[TonyWilliams]

The 12 volt battery was 2 weeks old. The Bosch group 24 AGM. Perfectly good new 12v battery.

They can’t keep you old parts. Demand to get the “old” Bosch battery back. This is covered in California state law.

 

[RobbW]

Hi all - I read through the various related threads and was hoping to get clarification on something...

So in my situation, I have a 2012 with 52k miles but it’s now 5 3/4 years old... here’s the deal.

Got a new replacement 12v 9 months ago. No big deal but then about a week ago, car was dead and thought my daughter left lights on so jumpstarted it, drove around, everything great. Three days later, battery dead again. Thought I must have had a bad 12v so replaced it under warranty, installed the replacement, everything great again. Four days later, new 12v dead. Ugh.

Dealership wants $250 to diagnose of which 1/2 goes toward repair. However, if I’m interpreting the threads correctly could this ultimately be symptomatic of a $4k gateway computer issue??

Interestingly, I had PREVIOUSLY received a replacement Gateway ECU back in early 2015, after incidents related to the check engine/ev system failure errors. At that time, the part was $3,790 but at least it was covered back then.

I’m trying to ascertain before I bring the car in whether this 12v draining issue is a simple fix, or an ultra expensive out of warranty issue in which case I may jumpstart it and then think about putting that repair cost toward a trade instead...unfortunately.

Any sage advice? Would Toyota even consider covering this as a warranty claim if I’m under miles but in month 68? Then again, am I WAYYY overthinking this and it’s indicative of a known issue that’s a bit more “benign” in terms of repair cost?

Thanks...

RobbW

 

[davewill]

For $250, I'd say have them do the diagnosis. You have to find out before you can really do anything else. If it's an expensive repair, you can definitely try to get Toyota to cover. I have no idea how likely that might be. If they won't, then you can start fishing for affordable ways to get things repaired, but the first step is knowing what's wrong.

Am I glad I got the extended warranty...

 

[smkettner]

Get your hands on a DC clamp-on ammeter. Start the car and see that voltage jumps up from 12.5 ish to maybe 14 volts to verify the DC/DC converter is working to supply 12v power.

Assuming that works out..... turn the car off and monitor the 12v battery discharge in amps. IIRC 3 to 6 amps quickly drops to less than 0.05 within 1 or 2 minutes. When my Gateway computer failed the draw remained at about 2 amps continuous when shut off. This equals dead battery within two days and no start. I started pulling fuses and I believe is was 9 and 10 that stopped the drain. However I believe you need those in to operate.

Also if you disconnect the battery something would reset and work for at least one cycle. Then next day it starts the drain again. Perfectly reliable and predictable failure. At least on mine that is what it did. YMMV.

If you are out of warranty and $4,000 is a lot of money you can put a charger on every single night until your Model 3 or I-Pace is delivered.

 

[KurtManz]

The end the story was that today I received a check in the mail for the $150... so they did eventually take care of this and made me whole...

So here's the post-credits scene...

Toyota national called to ask me how things had gone with my experience with the repair of the car..

I mentioned that they had fixed the problem, but that I was kind of disappointed that they had charged me $150 to reset a warning light.

I understood they had found nothing wrong... but the car's diagnostics said something's wrong... which in and on itself *is* something wrong.
I may have gone a bit too Zen on that conversation.

About a week later they called me and offered me a 'one time courtesy' to refund the $150... so according to that I should receive a check in 4-6 weeks...

it's good to see they're willing to take care of customers of these unique cars...

 

[asavage]

Toyota of Kirkland:

[link] I took my Rav4 EV in for its 40000 mile service including coolant replacement [to Toyota of Kirkland]. . . could not replace the Traction Battery coolant because there was a leak in that system . . . I could drive it in the meantime . . . the next day I heard a dragging sound from beneath the car. Turns out all the clips that hold the plastic "Air Dam", also known as a belly pan, were missing and it was dragging on the ground, held only by screws across the front . . .

Just an hour ago I was driving on the Freeway and the plastic cover on the inside of the left wheelwell came loose, whipped around the tire, beat up the side of the car, and flew off. It appears the incident also put a hole in the tire, since it was leaking and went flat. This is the plastic shroud that encloses the power cables that connect to the charge port.

I ended up taking it to Toyota (of Kirkland), schedule a traveling mechanic.

Next day update: Got an Optima Group 35 as recommended the next morning (~$250 from local Oreily auto shop). The car started up fine but the "Check EV system" light did not go away.

. . . I was kind of disappointed that they had charged me $150 to reset a warning light . . . about a week later they called me and offered me a 'one time courtesy' to refund the $150...

The end the story was that today I received a check in the mail for the $150... so they did eventually take care of this and made me whole...

SeattleRav4 had two incidents of parts falling off his vehicle after having it servicing at ToK.
KurtManz bought a $250 AGM battery and got a OEM lead acid battery and $150 back.

While I bought my Toyota Used Car Warranty at ToK (because it was substantially cheaper than Toyota of Seattle's quote), there's not a chance I'd ever let them do any service work on mine, not after learning the above.

ToS performed my DU replacement, and they had (had the traveling tech) perform at least two before mine.

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NW SolarFest Sustainable Living Fair is tomorrow at Shoreline Community College. I'll be there for the first couple of hours. I missed it last year; I bought my RAV4EV a couple of weeks later, and I'm clear out in Duvall and didn't hear about it until after it was over.