Milling noise FIX

[Schenkzoola]

Hi everybody, I recently purchased a Rav4 EV with 126,000 miles. This car had terrible drive unit bearing noise, so I took it upon myself to try to fix it.

ALL of the noise was caused by bearing failure, however taking it apart exposed a seal failure as well.
Three bearings were in bad shape. The motor bearings had axial play, and the gearbox pinion bearing had fretting on the outer race, indicative of shaft voltage.

Here is a google doc describing it: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1A6n0bkLowViFNtoD2bjzkL_IHk5RLS-mvYRUpe2qzGA/edit?usp=sharing

Please excuse the crudity of the document, I didn't have time to build it to scale, or to paint it.

Lots more pictures here:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/fUffopAvPV64R6kBA

This is my first experience working on an EV, and let me tell you, they are so much easier to work on than gas cars.

Since there are no drive unit service manuals or internal parts available from Toyota, or presumably Tesla, I would encourage others to share as much as you can about replacement pieces and procedures.

 

[hokiematt]

Wow, this is amazing insight - thanks for the great write up!

As these cars age, I suspect more and more of us will be faced with the prospect of bearing and seal replacement; it's nice to see that the process isn't that unreasonable.

Thanks again for taking the time to document and share

 

[davewill]

Supposedly, the latest version of reworked units Tesla used for replacements included some sort of brush to keep this from happening again. I know my last replacement has gone for 30K miles, twice as far as the each first two motors did before making the milling noise and needing replacement. I also know that QuickChargePower (local to me) will do these replacements.

 

[Schenkzoola]

If anybody opens up a rev Q drive unit, I would love to see what they did differently. I have ideas on a modification, but if Tesla already solved it, I want to see what they did. The rev F drive unit does have a brush, but I don’t think it was effective.

 

[dstjohn99]

Excellent. Thank you! I always wish I had done photos and videos after I complete a repair. Thanks for actually doing it and sharing.

 

[jimbo69ny]

Wow very cool! Great job! I love seeing people working on this car!

 

[asavage]

Nicely done. I appreciate that you took high-resolution images instead of the usual phone-camera crap. I mean, these were likely phone-camera pictures, but not a single one is out of focus, as most are that I squint at when trying to follow someone's build.

Also, thanks for explaining your bearing and seal choices. Other than the seal spacer (I don't do any precision machining that requires a lathe, I sub it out; I do own a small mill-drill and boring bar, though, and it does come in handy sometimes), your decisions and approach is very similar to what I would have done if faced with those choices.

I am fortunate to have received the updated DU replacement, but it's nice to see the internals and process.

 

[TonyWilliams]

All inductive Tesla motors used in the 2012-2014 Toyota RAV4 EV have the “brush”.

 

[Schenkzoola]

All inductive Tesla motors used in the 2012-2014 Toyota RAV4 EV have the “brush”.

Thanks Tony!

Was the only difference preload springs, or is there something else different in the rev Q and newer drive units that allows them to last? Or is this just a rumor?

 

[TonyWilliams]

All inductive Tesla motors used in the 2012-2014 Toyota RAV4 EV have the “brush”.

Thanks Tony!

Was the only difference preload springs, or is there something else different in the rev Q and newer drive units that allows them to last? Or is this just a rumor?

RAV4 doesn’t have a “Q” revision... that was the Model S.

We have ”REV1”, and presumably REV2 as of February 2019.

I honestly don’t know every change.

 

[johnnylawson]

Thank you so much for the super detailed process. I'm on my third drive unit. They replaced it last year and right before that year warranty was up on that one - it went out - coolant leak / seals. I'm hoping that this is true that Tesla fixed the issue this time. I got a unit after Feb 2019... and Alex at Toyota confirmed that Tesla held them up for this "revision" to be done to all the units they had. I'm already preparing for this unit to go bad - hopefully before a year warranty is up. I'm a DIY kind of guy so having this post in my back pocket makes me feel a little more at ease if I am ever at a point where it happens out of warranty.

Thanks again for the great work.

 

[EV4ME+3]

My 2013 RAV4EV makes a winding up sound on acceleration. It has gotten worse over the years. Toyota dealer replaced motors in 2014 or 2015, but while I hadn’t complained or noticed it prior to that, it has gotten very loud in the last few years. Is this what you’re referring to as milling, or caused by same? Toyota dealer quoted $10k-12k to repair, which I believe they said would be motor replacement again. Please advise. 74k miles. Would like to know if this is a safety issue. Also would appreciate any referral to NorCal shops that might charge less than Toyota dealers and know EVs. Thanks.

 

[alflash]

My 2013 RAV4EV makes a winding up sound on acceleration. It has gotten worse over the years. Toyota dealer replaced motors in 2014 or 2015, but while I hadn’t complained or noticed it prior to that, it has gotten very loud in the last few years. Is this what you’re referring to as milling, or caused by same? Toyota dealer quoted $10k-12k to repair, which I believe they said would be motor replacement again. Please advise. 74k miles. Would like to know if this is a safety issue. Also would appreciate any referral to NorCal shops that might charge less than Toyota dealers and know EVs. Thanks.

It is advisable to record* these extraneous sounds to try to localize** the place of their source.
Possible reasons include (conventional and ceramic bearings, and differential ):
http://alflash.com.ua/2019/to_rav4ev/cause.jpg
Replacing bearings and oil seals will be much cheaper than replacing the entire motor assembly (motor, inverter and transmission).

Is the coolant level normal? Is there any trace of this liquid on the motor speed sensor?

* Video examples So
https://youtu.be/dEYsYZo8Oz8
https://youtu.be/0qT_So3RXDY
or so
https://youtu.be/YpodH7U_fWU
https://youtu.be/dIOWNmd8F-o
**
https://youtu.be/BGl0XFcJy3k

 

[davewill]

... Toyota dealer quoted $10k-12k to repair, which I believe they said would be motor replacement again. Please advise. 74k miles. Would like to know if this is a safety issue. Also would appreciate any referral to NorCal shops that might charge less than Toyota dealers and know EVs. Thanks.

You should contact Tony at QuickChargePower.com, they can possibly repair your current motor for less than a replacement from Toyota. If nothing else, they will know all of the options available.

 

[asavage]

You should contact Tony at QuickChargePower.com [ . . . ]

Tony appears to be out of business. He has not returned emails from me, nor returned a VM I left at his shop's phone number.

All "Services" on his website are "Sold Out", including the Tesla DU bearing replacement service @ $4k.

https://qccharge.com/products/repair-service-toyota-rav4-ev-2012-2014-new-motor-bearing

 

[davewill]

You should contact Tony at QuickChargePower.com [ . . . ]

Tony appears to be out of business. He has not returned emails from me, nor returned a VM I left at his shop's phone number.

All "Services" on his website are "Sold Out", including the Tesla DU bearing replacement service @ $4k.
...

No he's still in business, I spoke with him a couple of weeks ago about replacing the J1772 inlet on my RAV. I didn't have him do it because Toyota covered it under my extended warranty, but he was willing to schedule it if I needed it. They were in the middle of moving locations, and it's the holidays. I'd give him a little more time.

 

[alflash]

... Tony appears to be out of business. He has not returned emails from me, nor returned a VM I left at his shop's phone number...

Take a look and try https://www.facebook.com/groups/ToyotaRAV4EVTeslaPowered/permalink/4878155568893723/
HTH,

 

[asavage]

No . . . I don't "do" Facebook. At all. Not even a peek. I actually instructed my investment company to pull my money from funds that have FB as part of their makeup. It took a while, because nearly every fund available to my portfolio has some FB in it, but eventually I got nearly all my investments out of FB.

I am very much not a fan of Zuckerberg's leadership. Their product is us. See "The Social Dilemma" for more information.

-----------------

From what someone emailed me . . . Tony is effectively out of business. Maybe he's got some side hustles, maybe he's shipping a few things, but my last convo with him was about a venture that involved a significant investment on my part -- more than the cost of several $4k motor repairs, for example -- and a verbal agreement on his part . . . and then radio silence. That's not "in business".

Just sayin' . . . he's not here anymore, and I've heard secondhand that he's left some other FB place (due to disharmony) and gone and created his own? Why is that?

EV4ME+3 is looking for a non-dealer repair option within a reasonable distance of NorCal -- they're basically in south Sacramento -- and San Diego (area) is a long way from NorCal. If shipping is involved, you can ship it anywhere. There has to be another option than QCP. The OP of this thread approached this as a DIY project, and many others have repaired the Model S version, so documentation is fairly widely available at this point for a competent mechanic to repair these. It doesn't require a certain specialist anymore, and should not command a specialist price tag, either.

 

[miimura]

Tony moved the company to another facility and was essentially closed for more than a month during the move. Here is the updated information, copied from the FB group.

We will have all three of our new BendPak car lifts operational during the first week of January 2021.
Tony Williams
Founder/ CEO / Product Architect
QC CHARGE
1497 POINSETTIA AVE
Suite 154
VISTA, CA 92081-8542 USA
[email protected]
www.QCcharge.com
Twitter: QCPower
1-760-798-0342 Office M-F, 9-5pm
1-844-EV-PARTS
1-844-387-2787

 

[asavage]

I have been told that the Tony's FB group is private. Not a company communication channel, then.