How to buy a Battery after 8 Year and 100,000 miles warranty

[ravisekhar]

I was almost ready to complete the purchase of RAV4 EV. These question strikes me in the end , i thought this forums will help in finding the answers

1) what is acceptable drop in battery capacity every year and in 10 years ? standard charging , Extended Charging.

2) If the battery capacity drops more than 30 % in 6 - 8 yrs, Will tesla or toyota fix the battery ? if not, what percentage drop causes them to fix the battery.

3) how can we purchase the new battery after 8 Yrs. If tesla/toyota are no longer selling RAV4 EV ?

 

[Dsinned]

I don't believe there are any specific answers to your questions. When it comes to the battery pack, many mysteries remain. Right now, there are many of us just trying to get a "fix" for scheduled charging which is lightyears away from a complete battery R&R. I think the only way you could get one under warranty is due to an outright safety issue or a total functional failure of some kind. However, the RAV4 EV is really in the same boat as all the other manufacturers of EVs with respect to a long term Li-ion battery pack warranty, but your concern about the RAV4 EV still being in production long term, and availability of major components provided by Tesla, is certainly valid.

 

[TonyWilliams]

There is no capacity warranty of any kind, so that won't happen. If a cell fails, they will replace it up to 8 years.

Nissan recently started a capacity warranty after a LOT of problems with the battery losing capacity in extreme heat. Don't worry, Toyota will not do the same!!!

 

[jspearman]

I want to figure out a way to pull the pack in a few years and upgrade to some higher capacity cells. With enough Teslas on the road in 8 years I think aftermarket folks will start to get in the game, especially as the actual batteries are readily available. I would love to eke out another 100 miles at some point

 

[Ampster]

I want to figure out a way to pull the pack in a few years and upgrade to some higher capacity cells. With enough Teslas on the road in 8 years I think aftermarket folks will start to get in the game, especially as the actual batteries are readily available. I would love to eke out another 100 miles at some point

Those questions came up in the focus groups and many responded that they would pay extra for more capacity. If this car goes mainstream that may be an option. A month ago I met an original RAV4EV owner who found a business in Sacramento that replaced his pack for $10,000. He told me they were nicads and for that kind of money I would have expected Lithiums. Since our pack is made up of many NCR16850 Lifepo cells I would think we will have some good alternatives. On the other hand I am interested in seeing what other EV options are out there in 5 to 10 years.

 

[fooljoe]

A month ago I met an original RAV4EV owner who found a business in Sacramento that replaced his pack for $10,000. He told me they were nicads and for that kind of money I would have expected Lithiums. Since our pack is made up of many NCR16850 Lifepo cells I would think we will have some good alternatives. On the other hand I am interested in seeing what other EV options are out there in 5 to 10 years.

The original Rav4-EV used NiMH, which is significantly better than NiCad. And while NiMH is less energy dense than lithium, it may have superior cycle life. Lots of those original Rav owners have gone over 100k miles without seeing significant capacity degradation - it's doubtful modern lithium-based EVs can do that.

$10k for its 28kwh pack comes out to $357/kwh, which is (was) really not bad. Looking at the marginal cost among the various battery options on the Model S would indicate about $450/kwh for lithium. And what makes you think the Rav4 uses LiFePo? The cells are pretty much "standard" lithium with nickel-cobalt-aluminum cathodes from what I can tell.

 

[Kohler Controller]

1) what is acceptable drop in battery capacity every year and in 10 years ? standard charging , Extended Charging.

I'll be testing the cells during 2013 to answer that very question. Stay tuned.

As for warranty, only if the battery fails, will they intervene. They do not warranty range.