"Half" a firmware update?

[ground_gainer]

So my local Toyota dealer (out of state) said they could service my Rav4 EV and do the recent firmware update. I asked if they were sure since it was probably the first Rav4 EV they had seen. They scheduled me on a special day to make sure their Master Technician was available. They took my car today and had no problems doing the "Toyota half" of the firmware update, but then whatever directions they were following instructed them to hook up the Tesla cable, download some other software, and update the "Tesla half" of the car. Well, they didn't have the Tesla cable and for whatever reason couldn't download the Tesla software either. Apparently this just popped up on them during the update and they didn't have all the procedures ahead of time I guess (I'm just speculating--if you didn't have all the parts, why would you start?).

So I got "half" a firmware update. They called around a little bit and then pulled me aside and basically said I had to go to California to get the "second half" of the update and they were not allowed to touch anything on my car ever again. They said the car isn't ever supposed to leave California.

Fortunately it looks like the car still runs and charges fine (I'll let you know for sure tomorrow after it charges tonight and I commute back to work) but how coupled are the Toyota and Tesla updates? It doesn't seem like getting half an update is a good idea.

I have had no problems with the car up to this point. I'm kind of kicking myself for not following the "If it ain't broke don't fix it" rule.

I tried to call the 1-800 number and open a case but they are closed until Thursday for the holiday (just my luck). I'm hoping we can work something out to at least finish the update that they started.

I'll let you know what happens. I'm really hoping the "updated" Toyota software is backwards compatible with the "old" Tesla software.

 

[user 340]

Don't be too alarmed if it doesn't charge tonight because...
Tomorrow is the 31st and you will be bitten by the "no scheduled charging on the 31st" bug if the timer starts after midnight tonight.

 

[crxpilot]

I wonder if Tesla would offer a firmware or other repair services to RAV4 EV owners out of state. Has anybody approached a Tesla service center about that?

 

[miimura]

They called around a little bit and then pulled me aside and basically said I had to go to California to get the "second half" of the update and they were not allowed to touch anything on my car ever again. They said the car isn't ever supposed to leave California.

This is the part that rubs me the wrong way. This is clearly coming from Toyota corporate and they're being openly hostile to customers. There is no good reason, even financial, for Toyota to tell out of state dealers they are "not allowed to touch anything" on these cars. There is such a wide range of reasonable restrictions that Toyota could put on warranty service for these cars, but they choose not to be reasonable.

 

[quartzav]

I agree. Let's hope ground_gainer can get somewhere with 1-800. Happy New Year!

 

[Dsinned]

If it's any consolation, I don't think the "2nd half of the update", i.e. the firmware update to theTesla Gateway Control Logic Module in the back of the car, matters anyway. I had that update done by a local CA dealer several months ago. I believe the firmware update then was referred to as Calibration ID 1.3.62. After it was done, I did not notice anything different with the car and still have exactly the same scheduled charging issues as all along. Frankly, I do not believe Toyota will ever resolve the car's scheduled charging issues. Fortunately, we have been given a "gift" from a fellow member here (Fooljoe). HIs web app, "RAVCHARGER" does a good job of working around these chronic charging issues.

HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!

 

[Philly RAV4 EV]

Until Toyota takes full responsibility for the service/repairs of all the Rav4 EVs they are making, anywhere in the U.S. then "They are and always will be our Enemy"

 

[ground_gainer]

So, update, I did eventually get the other half of my firmware update (a few weeks later) and now have the .79 ECU upgrade. I opened a case with the 1-800 number, got referred to the EV specialist Kevin. We initially spoke and he explained again how the car is not supposed to leave California, etc. He said a case was opened with the engineers and he would get back to me once they made a decision on the way forward. A week or so later I got a call back saying they would complete the update and my dealer should be calling my soon.

The dealer set up a day when the regional lead engineer was in town. Apparently this is a monthly rotation where he looks at all of the weird "problem cars" at the local dealership and also teaches classes. Randomly a guy from Toyota HQ in Japan was also at my dealership all day that day--not sure if he was interested in the EV or something else ( the engineer had 8 or 9 "problem cars" he was looking at that day.).

So they started the update around 10am but I guess it crapped out halfway through due to some firewall issue (maybe it was the downloading of the software that crapped out?). They restarted the whole thing at 3:15pm and it was done a little after 4 and everything seemed good. I asked if I could talk to the engineer so he came out along with the dealer's head of service and the visiting Japanese fellow from HQ.

The engineer told me again the car shouldn't be taken out of California (Do you think they are trying to tell me something?). He mentioned that there WAS a dealer in the Denver area that services and is certified to service 7 of the original Rav4EVs that made their way out to Colorado, but that that dealership had no experience/ability to service the new Rav4 EV. He also said mine was the first in the whole front range area that any dealership had seen. I am hoping I can get the name of that dealership (I didn't write it down). They might be worth talking to as it sounds like they may be interested in the new Rav4 EV since they are so familiar with the old Rav4 EV. Having a dealer that wants to service the car and get people trained would be a great step in right direction.

The engineer was non-committal about any kind of future service work, but did make it sound like "toyota stuff" was no big deal (tire rotations, fixing the power windows, fluid checks, etc.), but anything that involved the "tesla stuff" would almost certainly have to be serviced in California. He also was non-committal about whether the local dealer would get paid for any work on the car at all since they were not certified EV dealers (Kevin mentioned this too). I explained that I was happy to pay for service and since he was a monthly visitor maybe we could work something out in the future if new updates come out again (i.e., I bring my car in on a certain day when he'll be there). At this point he said that corporate was making him mail the "tesla cable" back to California; I think he was trying to tell me that getting a future update wouldn't be that easy. I did get told to expect a followup call from the dealership regarding my questions about what kind of possible service they can provide in the future and also who'll get stuck with the bill. So we'll see what they come back with but I am not super optimistic after reading these boards.

Anyway, I was pleased it got done, held up a little hope that they might get some EV certified dealers outside of California at some point in the future if there are enough cars to service (due to the certified original Rav4 EV dealership), but didn't come away feeling like getting any kind of warranty work done would be an easy thing. This was just a minor software update and took weeks and tons of calls/coordination.

My dealership was really good to me and did their best with the rules corporate imposed on them. I certainly appreciated their efforts on my behalf to get this update complete. Kevin from customer support was also great in coordinating the updating of my car and making things happen.

 

[cwerdna]

This is the part that rubs me the wrong way. This is clearly coming from Toyota corporate and they're being openly hostile to customers. There is no good reason, even financial, for Toyota to tell out of state dealers they are "not allowed to touch anything" on these cars.

There is a good reason and I'd wager it is mostly financial. The Rav4 EV is a CA compliance car. Having it go beyond CA means they need to worry about training of dealer techs, regional reps as well as stocking parts outside CA.

What happens when a tech has never even seen a Rav4 EV before, or let alone been trained on one? He won't likely know how the common issues and how to fix them. And, he might have to spend WAY more time on a vehicle due to lack of experience. Guess who pays for that or eats the cost if it goes beyond standard billable amounts? What happens if they damage a part, esp. an expensive one?

What if they need to fly a rep, engineer, etc. w/experience out vs. keeping ones within the state of CA and possibly dedicated to service certain regions of CA? How much time and money will it cost (in terms of travel expenses, time spent, inability to work on other vehicles, etc.) to service a one-off vehicle that's not even sold in that state?

Look how puny the sales are overall. Then, spread out the sales all piecemeal throughout a dozen or two states and then you'll see the problem.

Of course the engineer was non-committal. He doesn't want to go against policy or promise something that he/Toyota can't deliver on.

It is too bad the way things are. Toyota isn't serious about BEVs right now and other states don't have a similar system to CA ZEV credits that incentivize or practically force large volume automakers to make BEVs (or buy ZEV credits from others).

 

[Philly RAV4 EV]

Guess what everyone, Toyota can afford to do repairs out of state!!! Trust me, Toyota will not go bankrupt from repairing their Rav4 EVs out of state!!!

 

[Kohler Controller]

Guess what everyone, Toyota can afford to do repairs out of state!!!

Do tell! Did they fix something for you?

 

[Philly RAV4 EV]

No issues yet! Just making a statement.

 

[jspearman]

Thanks for the update, Gainer. I've been crossing my fingers with ours, hoping the Gateway ECU issue doesn't occur. I'm not terribly far from the closest dealer (Palm Springs, 250 mi.), but not excited about spending $ to flatbed it for repair work or updates. My closest dealer did a 5,000 mi service, but then got the call from regional manager to stay away.

I've thought about selling it and getting something else, but there's just no replacement and doesn't look like there will be for years.

 

[cossie1600]

I don't get it. The car was advertised as being a California car only. What do you guys expect when you knowingly drive it out of state? I feel bad for you guys, but you have to expect problems like this. Its like buying a black market phone and complain about not getting support from the manufacture

 

[Dsinned]

The brutal truth of this CA vs. other states issue, is that when it comes to the "Tesla" side of the car, not even certified RAV4 EV servicing dealers in CA know how to fix them. The large (and still growing) number of "Check EV system . . . " failures is a good example. I do not believe ANYBODY within Toyota knows what is truly causing this problem. Gateway computers are being replaced as kind of a band aid fix, but there have been a few reports of the problem reoccurring even after replacing the computer. At this point, one may wonder if even Tesla knows how to fix this problem should it turn out to be a DESIGN defect!

 

[Kohler Controller]

I don't get it. The car was advertised as being a California car only. What do you guys expect when you knowingly drive it out of state? I feel bad for you guys, but you have to expect problems like this. Its like buying a black market phone and complain about not getting support from the manufacture

If Toyota offers 24 months of Free Toyota Care with each RAV4EV, why should they care if the service (i.e. rotating tires) is done out of state? That doesn't require an EV certified dealer. As for firmware upgrades, I've asked my dealer to inquire about the special Toyota/Tesla programming device such that I could purchase it for them. The best they could do is notify me when the "Special Roaming Toyota Technician" is coming in town which happens to have the device. He updated my firmware one time so far (version .62 I think). I would like version .79 or whatever the current version is up to, but since I don't know what it fixes (if anything at all), I guess I'm not missing anything. I have received the Check EV error twice, but both times it cleared itself and haven't seen it for the last 15k miles (I'm currently at 20k miles). I know us out of staters have taken a risk, but I fully expect Toyota to honor warranty claims on Toyota items no matter what. If a Tesla part is the problem, I will work with the local Tesla service department directly to see if they can help, even at my expense.

 

[jspearman]

I don't get it. The car was advertised as being a California car only. What do you guys expect when you knowingly drive it out of state? I feel bad for you guys, but you have to expect problems like this. Its like buying a black market phone and complain about not getting support from the manufacture

It's a poor comparison to buying a black market phone. We didn't buy the car from a shady guy in a mall kiosk or from ebay, we bought it from a reputable, fully-vetted, factory-approved dealer. We bought the cars with Toyota's knowledge and they gladly took our money to clear the lots of these poor-selling cars.

Mostly I'm upset that they are refusing warranty claims for non-EV parts of the car as Kohler stated. That kind of silly childishness is why this is our last Toyota.

Considering every EV repair requires a Tesla technician, it's too bad Toyota didn't simply contract with Tesla to repair them in their service centers, one of which is 13 miles from my house. Would certainly be easier for everyone, but I digress. The Model E will replace the RAV in a couple of years, along with replacing my Volt, and we'll be done with companies who still build gas-burners.

 

[Airton]

I don't get it. The car was advertised as being a California car only. What do you guys expect when you knowingly drive it out of state? I feel bad for you guys, but you have to expect problems like this. Its like buying a black market phone and complain about not getting support from the manufacture

No need to feel bad for us, we're good

 

[cossie1600]

Not at all, go buy an IPhone from overseas at any Apple store. Bring it to the US Apple store and see the issues you have in getting warranty repairs on them. Toyota didn't sell you the car, the dealership did. Toyota only shipped the cars to CA for sale, some of you guys decided to take it out of state. You are taking the risks in doing so as most dealerships don't have the tools or knowledge to fix it (even some of the CA ones don't). I do agree that they should just do some of the work in good faith, but I can't say I blame them for not wanting to sell the car to out of state people.

I don't get it. The car was advertised as being a California car only. What do you guys expect when you knowingly drive it out of state? I feel bad for you guys, but you have to expect problems like this. Its like buying a black market phone and complain about not getting support from the manufacture

It's a poor comparison to buying a black market phone. We didn't buy the car from a shady guy in a mall kiosk or from ebay, we bought it from a reputable, fully-vetted, factory-approved dealer. We bought the cars with Toyota's knowledge and they gladly took our money to clear the lots of these poor-selling cars.

Mostly I'm upset that they are refusing warranty claims for non-EV parts of the car as Kohler stated. That kind of silly childishness is why this is our last Toyota.

Considering every EV repair requires a Tesla technician, it's too bad Toyota didn't simply contract with Tesla to repair them in their service centers, one of which is 13 miles from my house. Would certainly be easier for everyone, but I digress. The Model E will replace the RAV in a couple of years, along with replacing my Volt, and we'll be done with companies who still build gas-burners.

 

[reeler]

I don't get it. The car was advertised as being a California car only. What do you guys expect when you knowingly drive it out of state? I feel bad for you guys, but you have to expect problems like this. Its like buying a black market phone and complain about not getting support from the manufacture

The car was not "advertized" as CA only. I bought it from a person in a building with a Toyota logo from a salesperson representing himself as Toyota. He and his dealership were very happy to make the sale and arrange out-of-state shipping.

The warranty booklet is clear that they will cover repairs, even if out-of-state or not near an authorized dealer. Some idiots within Toyota are trying to slither out of their obligations. Very sleazy.