EV owner arrested for charging car at son's public school

[snoltor]

Unbelievable. A Leaf owner was arrested and spent about 15 hours in jail for plugging into an elementary school. Got about 5 cents worth before the cops showed up. And this was in the outskirts of Atlanta where the Leaf is king.... the November sales data showed that more Leafs were sold in Atlanta than any other city.

http://www.11alive.com/news/article...-charged-with-stealing-5-cents-worth-of-juice

 

[doug401]

Yes... I just read that on another news service. Being an early adopter isn't easy sometimes.

 

[snoltor]

Interesting that I've read several comments, a few even from EV owners, that they considered his act of plugging in equivalent to stealing 5 cents worth of gasoline. But I don't believe you can call this 'stealing'. This situation can't be compared to gas because that is set up as a commodity that you have to buy. Should he ask? Perhaps. Be arrested for stealing? Absolutely no. If you watch the video interview with the guy he is pretty level headed and says this is something that needs to be worked out. Clearly, if you lived next to the school and spliced the wires to charge your car, that would be stealing. Or if you rigged your meter to read less usage per month for charging at home, obvious stealing. If you work at or visit the school and charge up a phone, tablet or laptop, not considered stealing. If everybody parked their cars at the school to charge up overnight that wouldn't be right, but if you are visiting I don't believe that can in any way be considered stealing. But I guess the etiquette / rules are still being worked out..... at least this incident is starting the conversation.

 

[doug401]

Well if he is guilty of stealing, I'm guilty 20 times over.

We had an Ev'er here at work, really big aircraft company, who got some face time with company security because of his "creative" use of extension cords, and unauthorized use of company resources. Still there is no charging infrastructure at the worlds largest building by volume.

 

[4EVEREV]

Interesting that I've read several comments, a few even from EV owners, that they considered his act of plugging in equivalent to stealing 5 cents worth of gasoline. But I don't believe you can call this 'stealing'. This situation can't be compared to gas because that is set up as a commodity that you have to buy. Should he ask? Perhaps. Be arrested for stealing? Absolutely no. If you watch the video interview with the guy he is pretty level headed and says this is something that needs to be worked out. Clearly, if you lived next to the school and spliced the wires to charge your car, that would be stealing. Or if you rigged your meter to read less usage per month for charging at home, obvious stealing. If you work at or visit the school and charge up a phone, tablet or laptop, not considered stealing. If everybody parked their cars at the school to charge up overnight that wouldn't be right, but if you are visiting I don't believe that can in any way be considered stealing. But I guess the etiquette / rules are still being worked out..... at least this incident is starting the conversation.

You are flat out wrong. It is stealing, and I'm sure if I came to your house and charged every day you would not like it. It is irrelevant if it is $.05 or $500 of electricity, he is not paying for it someone else is and it is not his property. You can rationalize this to fit your specific needs or situation but if it does not belong to you it is stealing, clear cut. There was some mention elsewhere that he may also have been warned but he clearly never asked. This sense of entitlement with new EV owners can cause a bad name for all EV drivers. Please don't say it matters if it is a public school and not a private residence because that will make it ok to steal school supplies as well

Please provide your address so we can all come and charge on your electricity as needed since it is not set up to "buy" as a commodity I'm sure you won't mind. We can work out the etiquette that we will all be polite and take turns on your outlet so don't worry. . :roll:

 

[snoltor]

Steve Noctor
2506 Whittier Drive in Davis.

Happy to have you AND give you a coffee beer whatever.

I agree it is perfectly black and white concerning private property. But I disagree that this is breaking the law concerning public schools or institutions. This is a new form of transport and for the most part laws or rules or etiquette are being devised as we speak. Plugging into a private house without permission is obviously not right, nobody in their right mind would disagree. Plugging into a private business or school property, same, also not right. A public school or town hall, not so clear to me. We all pay taxes to provide electricity for our public infrastructure. As the number of EVs increases municipalities will have to come up with their own rules that specifically govern electricity use by EVs. Appears to be an issue of quantity, because most don't have issues with phone / computer charging. But when you get into kWh territory valid concerns arise.

All the best, Steve.

 

[mark_rivers19]

What's NEXT? Prosecuting people who USEs unlocked WiFi broadcast?
That's also stealing right?

With all these advancement in technology, we're moving backwards in this thing called Common sense. Maybe, it's not as COMMON as we used to believe.

 

[4EVEREV]

What's NEXT? Prosecuting people who USEs unlocked WiFi broadcast?
That's also stealing right?

With all these advancement in technology, we're moving backwards in this thing called Common sense. Maybe, it's not as COMMON as we used to believe.

Actually you need to research that one even more, you may be surprised what you find. And of course there is this regarding the guy how was arrested:

Wednesday evening, Chamblee City Manager and Police Chief Marc Johnson issued the following statement:

We received a 911 call advising that someone was plugged into the power outlet behind the middle school. The responding officer located the vehicle in the rear of the building at the kitchen loading dock up against the wall with a cord run to an outlet. The officer spent some time trying to determine whose vehicle it was. It was unlocked and he eventually began looking through the interior after verifying it did not belong to the school system.

The officer, his marked patrol vehicle and the electric vehicle were all in clear view of the tennis courts. Eventually, a man on the courts told the officer that the man playing tennis with him owned the vehicle. The officer went to the courts and interviewed the vehicle owner. The officer's initial incident report gives a good indication of how difficult and argumentative the individual was to deal with. He made no attempt to apologize or simply say oops and he wouldn't do it again. Instead he continued being argumentative, acknowledged he did not have permission and then accused the officer of having damaged his car door. The officer told him that was not true and that the vehicle and existing damage was already on his vehicles video camera from when he drove up.

Given the uncooperative attitude and accusations of damage to his vehicle, the officer chose to document the incident on an incident report. The report was listed as misdemeanor theft by taking. The officer had no way of knowing how much power had been consumed, how much it cost nor how long it had been charging.

The report made its way to Sgt Ford's desk for a follow up investigation. He contacted the middle school and inquired of several administrative personnel whether the individual had permission to use power. He was advised no. Sgt. Ford showed a photo to the school resource officer who recognized Mr. Kamooneh. Sgt Ford was further advised that Mr. Kamooneh had previously been advised he was not allowed on the school tennis courts without permission from the school . This was apparently due to his interfering with the use of the tennis courts previously during school hours.

Based upon the totality of these circumstances and without any expert advice on the amount of electricity that may have been used, Sgt Ford signed a theft warrant. The warrant was turned over to the DeKalb Sheriffs Dept for service because the individual lived in Decatur, not Chamblee. This is why he was arrested at a later time.

I am sure that Sgt. Ford was feeling defensive when he said a theft is a theft and he would do it again. Ultimately, Sgt. Ford did make the decision to pursue the theft charges, but the decision was based on Mr. Kamooneh having been advised that he was not allowed on the property without permission. Had he complied with that notice none of this would have occurred. Mr. Kamooneh's son is not a student at the middle school and he was not the one playing tennis. Mr. Kamooneh was taking lessons himself.

_________________

 

[mhkp]

Of course there is always more to the story. Thanks for the post that shows he had a history with the school and was previously advised not to charge there. I think at this point none of us would fight the system, so to speak, for $0.05 of charge, unless it was personal, which in this case it may have been a battle of egos.

In any case I was researching this very topic a few weeks ago because I now regularly park in a University (public institution) parking lot and was curious what the EV community thought about 'stealing' electricity by plugging into a parking lot outlet. My scouring of the Internet showed an even split (mostly by very vocal Volt owners). One group thinks its is absolutely stealing and the circumstances or your rationalizing it doesn't matter much at all. Another group feels like Snoltor that its 'free use' or 'public domain' or 'open source' and access to electricity should be granted to EV owners. Some in the second group make no distinction between private and public sources. Its like wifi, plugging in a laptop, or a drinking fountain; free for use to anyone who can get access.

In my research I also found that this was a very heated debate almost always. Its a moral question in the end. Most advised to get permission, just to ease the conscience.

My dilemma is this: getting permission or non-permission from someone who doesn't have the authority to decide, is pointless. I may be in a University parking lot and the security guard who has no idea what an EV is, will usually say no, just to cover his ass. The person with authority and knowledge of course is impossible to find. So even if someone tells me 'no' I may plug in if i need a desperate charge, but even if I get a friendly 'yes' I may get a reprimand from someone who disagrees.

The solution of course is more paid charging stations, so everyone who needs a charge can get one and doesn't need to resort to guerrilla charging tactics.

 

[snoltor]

My position is not that EV owners should be granted access. For the record: I believe if a person is asked not to charge, he should not do so. I also believe that if somebody is plugged in for the first 'offense' they should be asked to unplug and not arrested. Being a jerk to a police officer is not against the law but it sure will create problems as our friend learned. Ultimately institutions will have to come up with their own rules and publish rules or post signs.

Another group feels like Snoltor that its 'free use' or 'public domain' or 'open source' and access to electricity should be granted to EV owners.

 

[n3ckf]

my comment on Reddit on this same issue:

The guy was an idiot to the cop who showed up. This is never a good idea. HE should've just unplugged the car and had a nice day. Instead he argued with the cop and accused him (apparently unjustly) of damaging his car.

Cops hate paperwork. But they hate idiots more. Dont be the one that motivates them to do paperwork.

 

[SeattleRav4]

This is an interesting social point. One the one hand, stealing gas is clearly illegal. Thus plugging in your EV is illegal.
On the other hand, if you plug in your cell phone at the school, no problem. if you use the parking lot at the school, no problem, use the drinking fountain, no problem.
So where is the line? The amount of draw?
As pointed out elsewhere, my current company policy seems to be that an electric heater plugged in at your desk is "incidental" but plugging in your electric car to travel between sites is not allowed. Even though they will pay the time and cost of driving down the street to plug in at a public charger and the cost of the heater is greater than the cost of the top-up charge.

It will help if the EV community helps to hash out and then present a united front on this point. If we as a society really want cleaner air and less climate change, we might want to encourage things that work in that direction.

 

[branstone]

I think that plugging into an outlet without permission is illegal, and also just wrong to do. I mean really, what gives anyone the right to just plug into an outlet that you do not pay for without permission? Is it ok to take gas from a a gas can you see in a landscapers truck? i don't think so.

 

[Tadol]

I think the common sense thing here is to lock the outlets. Just like they put special valves or interior shut-offs to restrict the use of hose bibbs, something similar needs to be adopted regarding electric plugs.

But the real question is why are the plugs/bibbs provided? If the use is in the interest and at the request of the those managing the resource, then it makes sense to allow it. That would mean that making a work space comfortable for an employee by allowing the reasonable use of an electric heater at their workspace to bring it to a reasonable temperature would be acceptable, as would using a hose bibb to water plantings or cleaning windows - but charging a personal vehicle or washing your personal car would clearly be inappropriate. In a public environment, that seems to be pretty straightforward - but in private situations, the questions become murkier. Luckily, whoever pays those bills gets to decide whats right in those situations.

There's no way to regulate every possible scenario, so it makes sense to just look at who the primary beneficiary is, and whether the use is fair and reasonable to those paying the bills. In this situation, the use was clearly inappropriate. The plugs were installed for the benefit of the school, and a private individual charging their vehicle is an inappropriate, and thus illegal, use. But it never pays to be a jerk - especially to a police officer.

 

[mark_rivers19]

The back story made it clearER.
EV owner was a jerk both to the school and the police.