Charger installation process

[Dsinned]

Still, that should effectively double the charging rate, perhaps a bit more, because 240V charging is generally more efficient than 120V. On second though, I think not, because the charge cord is still the same length and wire gauge, and maximum allowable load current remains at 12A.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Still, that should effectively double the charging rate, perhaps a bit more, because 240V charging is generally more efficient than 120V. On second though, I think not, because the charge cord is still the same wire gauge, and the maximum allowable load current remains at 12A.

1.44kW vs 2.88kW, and higher charger efficiency at the faster rate, so yes, it is slightly more than twice as fast at 240v.

44 hours becomes 20 hours.

 

[ampdtoy]

If you decide to get the rav4...order the charger asap if you want to go with leviton. it is a needlessly long process and you may get your car and have no charger. I started the process a month ago and will finally get mine in another week.
The process was been explained here in detail already, but leviton is slow and the certified installers take there time. You are caught in the middle waiting for everyone to catch up. I had my electricans install the line....and all I needed was the unit to plug in...so when the installer arrived he told me that I had to also change the plug because it was not leviton...the experience of getting this done is going like that. I hope Monday brings this to an end.

 

[Dsinned]

As I implied in my last couple posts here, there is no reason why a new RAV4 (or prospective) owner has to go thru this tedious, highly burecratic process with Leviton. If you prefer, you can order a Leviton EVSE L2 chargoer from them online and have it drop shipped directly to your residence. The only question is whether you can order their "40A" charger, or are you limited to a 32A home charging station, such as the EVB32 series (like I have). I don't see why there should be any restrictions whatsoever, because a Leviton 40A charger may well be used by a non-RAV4 EV, and Leviton is in business to make money, so they are in competition with other manufacturers who also have 40A charger to sell. Furthermore, there is no law or legal requirement to use Leviton and Toyota pre-arranged "partnership" in a home installation, even if you are a RAV4 EV buyer. If you ask me, the so-called "bundled" price for a Toyota RAV4 EV customer appears to be the full retail price anyway. This whole thing about being pre-certified via an authorized RAV4 EV Toyotal dealer seems totally unnecessary and just a scheme to try to "own" the market. It's called a "reference sell", and Toyota may have entered into this partnership with Leviton only to insure 100% "compatibility" with the RAV4 EV. Because as we all now know, not a "J1772" chargers are the same, nor are they all fully interchangeable with all "J1772" EVs. I certainly can attest to that per the tread that I started over here . . .

 

[TonyWilliams]

... there is no law or legal requirement to use Leviton's-Toyota "partnership" in a home installation... This whole thing about being pre-certified via an authorized RAV4 EV Toyotal dealer seems totally unnecessary and just a scheme to try to "own" the market.

I couldn't agree more. Any moderately knowlegable electrician can install one !!! Check out:

http://www.angieslist.com/electrical/

http://www.yelp.com/c/la/electricians

to find one near you.

There are oodles of other EVSE's out there; here's a list:

http://www.pluginamerica.org/accessory-tracker?type=All&level=2&nrtl=All

You can build your own:

http://code.google.com/p/open-evse/

You don't have to Pay-to-Play with Leviton's 40 amp unit. STOP THE MADNESS !!!

 

[BestDay]

Unfortunately if you want the fastest charging station possible the Leviton 40 amp is the cheapest. They will not sell you the 40 amp unit without it being installed through their process. The 40 amp Clipper Creek unit alone costs more then the Leviton unit with installation. If you don't mind having a 30 amp charging station then buy one from Home Depot and have it installed. You will save $500-$700. But if you want 40 amp charging then Leviton is the cheapest way to go.

Bill

PS I almost forgot that with installation the Leviton unit comes with a 8 or 10 year warranty.

 

[brownie]

Ok, I've gotten a quote from Leviton for the 40a charger. Unfortunately, my installation is considered "non-standard" because it involves a run from my outside meter to the garage which is over the "standard" install of 100ft (in my case, 120ft). Because of this, the price jumps up from the standard install of $1740 to $2842 (both prices include the charger itself). I'm shocked that they can justify tacking on $1100 for an extra 20 feet of installation. So naturally, I am looking at other options. I am considering the Leviton 32a that can be purchased from Home Depot and have it installed by an electrician. My question is, can the EVB32-5ML be installed to be hard wired instead of plug-in? This is one of my requirements in order to qualify for the LADWP rebate. They will not approve a charger that is plugged in and want hard wired. Also, are there other 30a chargers that people highly recommend that I should consider? I am also considering the Clipper Creek cs-50 40a but it will all depend on what an electrician quotes me for the work.

 

[Dsinned]

. . . My question is, can the EVB32-5ML be installed to be hard wired instead of plug-in? This is one of my requirements in order to qualify for the LADWP rebate. They will not approve a charger that is plugged in and want hard wired. . .

Yes, it most certain can be hardwired. However, it is shipped with a short input power cord with a 240Vac NEMA style plug at one end, already connected to the main charging unit enclosure. But, that can easily be replaced with a direct connection from a wiring run from your breaker box, or a local subpanel nearby in your garage, thus eliminating any need to "plug in" to a 240VAC wall socket receptacle. Any competent Electrician can do this type of reconfiguring at the charging unit. That is really basic stuff!!!

Have you called Leviton Customer Service to see what other alternatives you have yet? Do they have some kind of exclusive arrangement with Toyota to only allow their 40A units be sold to "certified" RAV4 EV prospective owners? Why wouldn't they sell a 40A charger - no questions asked - to ANYBODY, whether they owned a RAV4 or some other automaker's EV?

 

[Joyride]

I agree that we should be able to purchase outright. The electricians seem to be getting inventive in finding ways to charge more than the "standard" install. That much money for an extra 20-30 feet is rediculous. My installer charged me $200 for a $50 permit and chalked up the difference to preparation and in person filing fees.

Capitalism is one thing, profiteering is another.

Who, besides Leviton, makes a 40a charger?

 

[TonyWilliams]

Who, besides Leviton, makes a 40a charger?

Clipper Creek... made in California:

http://www.clippercreek.com/products.html

You want the CS-50 for continuos 40 amp service.

Here's a project that I just completed, converting a Clipper Creek from 30 amp service for a BMW Mini-E to 40 amp J1772-2009 for the Rav4. It took about 4 hours to assemble:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=248883#p248883

You can also build your own with moderate skills and tools:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=144871#p144871

 

[3rdRail]

I was all set to have the Guy who does the work on my Solar install a Clipper Creek charger for me but then Toyota told me that I'd have to sign the following waiver if I decided not to go with their standard Leviton charger:

"I agree to accept delivery of a RAV4 EV without having installed a Toyota-approved (Leviton) 240V 30A or 40A EVSE, and release & hold dealer and Toyota harmless from any damages resulting from this decision."

I don't really know much about how EV car charging works, I don't know anything about the legalities of warrantees etc., so having to sign this waiver spooked me out of not using the Toyota approved charger. But from everything I'm reading in this thread looks like it must not be as much of an issue as it seemed.

Did those of you that didn't go with the Leviton charger have to sign this waiver? It was a small paragraph in the middle of a document with the title:

NEW VEHICLE SALES DEPARTMENT
RAV4 EV CUSTOMER DISCLOSURE FORM -IMPORTANT CUSTOMER INFORMATION
(Review with RAV4 EV Customer at Time of Order or Sales Acknowledgement)

Am I more worried about signing this waiver than I should be? I'd much rather go with my own electrician and the Clipper Creek charger but I wouldn't want to do anything that would have any kind of affect on my battery warranty. I can imagine years from now a Toyota mechanic pointing at my signature and shrugging his shoulders. (Not because I think the clipper would actually be the problem, but just that they could use it as an excuse.)

Did everyone sign this that didn't go with Leviton? Is it no big deal?

Thanks

 

[TonyWilliams]

Toyota warranteed my car when the Blink melted the contactor pins. Toyota publishes a list of chargers that "work" (since they were NOT able to design a car that truly meets J1772).

Clipper Creek and Blink are listed as working.

I should have went in sales, because so much of it is based on easy-to-pitch "fear of the unknown" instead of facts. They want to sell you their foreign built Leviton, and make a tidy profit on it. It's that simple.

I would counter (if you're truly thinking their scare tactic has legs) with a letter for them stating that public charging (where virtually ZERO Leviton charging stations are) is not safe. Only Leviton home stations.

Edit: rereading their ********, I must infer that the trunk supplied Panasonic 120 volt 12 amp isn't safe either. Or maybe their letter infers "damage" from your decision; not the actual equipment. Since the purpose is to fear monger you into spending more money on their products, I would not get too worried about it.

 

[3rdRail]

Toyota warranteed my car when the Blink melted the contactor pins.

That's really excellent to hear. Lots of good info in your post. And I just went over and read the thread about the melted pin. Did you have to sign this waiver I'm talking about to receive your Rav4?

 

[Dsinned]

As I recall I signed a disclaimer of that nature as well at the time I bought my RAV4 EV. I did so willingly knowing full well that the EVSE L2 I already was using at home was NOT on the "compatible list" of Toyota approved chargers. That charger was the SPX Power Xpress.

I don't think I have ever used the (Panasonic) OEM 120V charging cord that came with my RAV4 EV either.

Instead, I ordered a "different" model Leviton charging station from Home Depot rated for 240V at 32A (7.7kW). It was a so-called "plug-in" unit more suitable for my garage where I recently installed a weatherproof NEMA approved, 240V, 50A receptacle to plug-in the charger. This receptacle is part of a Leviton "pre-wired' installation kit, which greatly aided the overall project.

Actually, I used a spare 240V "40A" circuit in my breaker box and existing wiring to a no longer used power outlet in my backyard, by rerouting it to my garage with the help of an Electrician. I was charged $375 for his labor using all my own materials.

It turns out that charging at 32A is for all intent and purpose nearly just as fast as charging at 40A. My last full standard charge, from a deeply depleted battery, took almost exactly 5 hours, resulting in 104 miles of freshly charged battery range. I suspect a fully "extended" charge would have taken only another hour or two at most, which would have got me closer to 130.

I did the charge in two separate periods of time (4 hours, followed by 1 hour to completion). There was rainy weather yesterday afternoon and evening, plus my electric rates go up between 5 and 9pm on weekends. I initially started charging at 1pm, so I did not have enough time to finish before 5pm when the rate went up. I completed the charge this morning between approximately 10 and 11am. Thus, the total duration of the charge (to completion) was right around 5 hours.

I highly recommend Leviton's "32A" EVSE L2 charging station for those that want to avoid hassles with Toyota's "prescribed" charging equipment. The Leviton charger I have is model EVB32-5ML with 25' long charging cord.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Toyota warranteed my car when the Blink melted the contactor pins.

That's really excellent to hear. Lots of good info in your post. And I just went over and read the thread about the melted pin. Did you have to sign this waiver I'm talking about to receive your Rav4?

I don't recall. It doesn't change the facts about charging. The EVSE isn't going to do anything bad to your car (except perhaps what happened to mine). It is super simple.

There are three larger pins in the J1772 that carry power and a ground. The other two smaller pins are for control, both sending signals measured in "ohms". The expense of the units increases with higher power, bigger wires and the relay. The rest is cheap computer stuff to manage it.

 

[Dsinned]

Brownie, how did everything turn out for you?

 

[brownie]

I'm still working on it. Leviton is SLOW to respond to my request for a better explanation of their pricing for the non-standard installation. In the meanwhile, I am having an electrician come over to give me a quote on the work. If we are happy with the pricing then we will most likely just go with his services (and lose our $100 leviton deposit for the site survey- grrrr) and purchase the Leviton 32A. They do not sell the 40A by itself. After a couple of weeks now of 110v charging, I am not as panicked about getting the level 2 charger installed and will take my time so we don't overpay. I'm hopeful that the electrician can do what we need. My only worry is that there are some special installation requirements (which I don't know the details of yet), for LADWP to be happy. It might require some coordination between ladwp and the electrician to figure that part out, which will take time as LADWP is handled by ONE person in my area and his time is very limited. For now, just trying to gather more info.

 

[Dsinned]

Leviton's "OTC" (over the counter) "32A" charger should be fine for what you need, and save you some serious $$$, whether PnP or hardwired, yet flexible enough to be installed where ever you need it in your garage. However, you will need a 208 to 240Vac, 40A dedicated wiring run to where ever that may be in your garage, which will be an (unavoidable) "extra" cost requirement.

I was lucky in that regard, because I had an existing (unused) 240Vac 40A service connection that I merely had to reroute to my garage; actually to wire up a Leviton pre-wiring kit, weatherproof, 240V-50A outlet receptacle, located just beneath the charging unit mounted on the wall. With my RAV4 EV parked outside on the driveway - backed in facing the street - I have just enough charging cord (25') to reach the car's J1772 charging port even with the garage door closed. The 18' model EVB32 unit for $100 less, would not have reached, so I am glad I made the right choice. :mrgreen:

 

[TonyWilliams]

I'd recommend "future" proofing your installation with a 50 amp circuit breaker, and wiring to handle 50 amps.

That means you can run a 40 amp EVSE in the future, if you later change your mind from the 30/32 amp.

The standard permit calculations are 80% of continuous load, so 80% of 50 amps equals 40 amps. A 40 amp breaker can handle 32 amps continuous.

 

[Dsinned]

That's a good idea Tony, and probably won't cost much more either.