California Electric Vehicle Submetering Pilot Program

[dstjohn99]

Has anyone started getting the rebates from the pilot program?

 

[Dsinned]

How could we? Nobody, at least as far as I know, has taken delivery yet of any "UL approved" JuiceBoxes, which is what the submetering pilot rebates were for. Alternative WattBoxes were "free", so there should not be any rebates for those.

 

[fromport]

Tomorrow (18th) is the last day of the first month of my pilot watt meter. Should get a first invoice after that

this morning:


DING DONG
SCE guy at the door.
Coming to inspect my pilot EV meter
Supposedly my meter isn't sending any data out to them (according to the person at the door)
Opened the watt box for him. When I showed him the display it read 1483.4 kWh
Then I showed him the emotorworks website which showed 1483 kWh of usage so far.
I was able to convince him that my data is being transmitted "outside" of my home,
and that if SCE doesn't receive the data, they should contact emotorworks.
The guy basically didn't even know about a pilot, he thought he would come and check a second conventional smart meter.
Yeah, this pilot goes real smooth (NOT!)

 

[Dsinned]

Absolutely dumbfounding!

 

[dstjohn99]

How could we? Nobody, at least as far as I know, has taken delivery yet of any "UL approved" JuiceBoxes, which is what the submetering pilot rebates were for. Alternative WattBoxes were "free", so there should not be any rebates for those.

I thought the rebates were for participating in the pilot program, not for using a Juicebox. the JB sales pitch was just "get a free JB by participating..." But since we all need a wattbox and a different approved charger, we should still get the rebates. Anyone from EMW following this care to comment?

 

[fusiondynamics]

I got a email today that they are offering the Juicebox with a $50 discount upfront and 3 $100 annual rebates.

 

[Dsinned]

Anyone still interested ought to get a movin because the deadline to apply for the pilot is the end of THIS month!

 

[New8848]

Anyone can refer me a licensed electrician for WattBox related installation in North San Jose? Thanks.

 

[Dsinned]

There a couple of Electricians that eMW can recommend to you serving the SF Bay Area, and don't forget they will cover the cost of installation up to $100. I had one of their Electricians come to my home to certify my WB install I did myself, as I have experience doing AC electrical work.

 

[srl99]

Is there ANYONE who can substantiate ANY substantial electricity cost reduction (vs. an IOU's EV rate plan)? For PG&E the reasonable comparison would be EV-A vs. E-1, E-6, E-7 (if you have it).

OhmConnect says to expect a 10% reduction, and I would like to understand the scenario. (PG&E) for a millisecond I
thought "maybe if you need to charge your car often during peak hours", but E-9B is more expensive than
even E-1 tier 4. So, you'd be better off doing daytime charging on your main meter. I know there's an argument
FOR someone who needs a lot of AC during the day (peak), but that has a flip side that you don't need much AC at
night (off-peak).

At this point, I'd even settle for someone who has estimated electric bill savings with sub-metering. Please tell me
your usage pattern which yields actual savings w sub-metering.

 

[Dsinned]

Since most of us on the PEV submetering pilot's EV-B rate plan have only just begun, it is probably too soon to say how much electricity cost can be saved.

One thing I found out from PG&E this past week is that the so-called "meter charge" is REAL and will not be waived for pilot participants. This is not really anything to get upset about because the charge is only about 5 cents per day, or ~$1.50 a month. The PG&E representative I spoke to was sympathetic but said to think of it as a "special" admin billing charge for such rate payers, as they are fully aware the "submeter" equipment provided by eMW is NOT owned and operated by PG&E, so the cost should be nil.

Also, and somewhat surprisingly, I found out that there are only ~20 customers total enrolled in the PEV pilot as EV-B ratepayers in all of PG&E's (huge) territory! The original CPUC plan was to allow up to 500 customers per each IOU in CA. That is only about 4% for PG&E, thus far, which is another reason for the "meter charge" because so few of us are now being separately billed for our submeters.

 

[srl99]

Well, the meter charge pretty much seals the coffin for me. I had marginal cost savings to begin with ($18/year in meter fees is more than I estimate my "savings" over EV-A). The free JB seems to be mythical, and my time is worth more than any potential "free" JB.

And, with all due respect to the PGE rep you spoke to, who I'm confident is a good person. I'll think of it as a(nother) money grab by PGE.

 

[Dsinned]

Keep in mind those of us enrolled in the pilot can "drop out" after 3 consecutive months, change to any other rate plan, keep the soon to be UL approved JuiceBox AND all the associated rebates. Of course, "if" the UL approved JB continues to be held up for a longer period of time, presumably so would the rebates. So, the 3 month requirement to get all rebates may extend to some number of additional months. I've already been in the pilot for nearly 3 months, so for me it is just a "waiting game" from here on out, because I still want a free JB. The one I have now is one year old (V8.7) and can only be "monitored" via the Android app. It cannot be fully controlled to turn on/off or alter current settings from the phone remotely. There is a good possibility the Pilot ready JB will be able to automatically suspend active charging like the new (currently available) "green" JB iaw grid demand conditions.

 

[srl99]

I know about the 3 mo minimum. But I don't have my "free" JB yet. Nor could I, the UL JB not released yet.

 

[miimura]

Is there ANYONE who can substantiate ANY substantial electricity cost reduction (vs. an IOU's EV rate plan)? For PG&E the reasonable comparison would be EV-A vs. E-1, E-6, E-7 (if you have it).

OhmConnect says to expect a 10% reduction, and I would like to understand the scenario. (PG&E) for a millisecond I
thought "maybe if you need to charge your car often during peak hours", but E-9B is more expensive than
even E-1 tier 4. So, you'd be better off doing daytime charging on your main meter. I know there's an argument
FOR someone who needs a lot of AC during the day (peak), but that has a flip side that you don't need much AC at
night (off-peak).

At this point, I'd even settle for someone who has estimated electric bill savings with sub-metering. Please tell me
your usage pattern which yields actual savings w sub-metering.

I have helped a few forum members do calculations on their own usage history to determine what rate plan is best for their current usage. It's also easy to do some what-if scenarios with my spreadsheet. You can dive in yourself with the spreadsheet that is available here, or if you want some help with it, PM me and we can work something out. This new version 1.8 has E-7 included and current rates entered since I recently helped someone with an old solar system and was already on that rate plan, which is not available for new enrollments.

[Edit]
Here is the summary of that recent analysis. Solar customer currently on E-7 and charging a RAV4 EV (or two). Dollars are whole year energy charges.

E-1 Whole House $2,271
E-6 Whole House $1,899
E-7 Whole House $1,630
EV-A Whole House $1,072
E-7 House Only $-89.22 (900kWh net, $ credit wiped out at true-up) + EV-B Car Charging $812 for 8033kWh for the full year.

I think that is significant savings, either by changing the whole house to EV-A or by going to the Sub-Meter Pilot program. This user does not have significant A/C household usage, which would be the most compelling case for sub-metering.

 

[michael]

Consider yourselves lucky that you can at least evaluate the option. I have LADWP and they are not participating in this program.

 

[fusiondynamics]

I use roughly 300-400kw a month not including charging the car, so if I was on the tiered rate, I would see a substantial savings versus being on the EV-A rate plan from PGE. Too bad I dragged my feet with getting in on this program.

Those that are on the EV-B rate now with the wattbox. Is the billing separate showing your car charging? I'm wondering how PGE shows it on their billing.

 

[Dsinned]

Those that are on the EV-B rate now with the wattbox. Is the billing separate showing your car charging? I'm wondering how PGE shows it on their billing.

Yes, separate in the form of two "blue" bills, and sometimes not for the same statement period. My last EV-B for the submeter bill was one month behind. You will get one bill for your submeter on the EV-B rate, and the other for the rest of the household on whatever other rate plan you have already.

Btw, the "meter charge" cannot be waived according to PG&E. It was carried over from the pre-existing EV-B rate plan and amounts to about 5 cent per day, ongoing, month to month.

 

[emotorwerks]

I use roughly 300-400kw a month not including charging the car, so if I was on the tiered rate, I would see a substantial savings versus being on the EV-A rate plan from PGE. Too bad I dragged my feet with getting in on this program.

Those that are on the EV-B rate now with the wattbox. Is the billing separate showing your car charging? I'm wondering how PGE shows it on their billing.

It's not too late to get in, but you would have to act today.

Please fill out the sign-up form below and create an OhmConnect account. Then email Kris or Dorian asking if you could place a pilot WattBox order today. The email address is their first name @emotorwerks.com. We would need to these steps completed so that OhmConnect can generate an enrollment form. This form will need to be signed and deposited with your utility on Monday. This is the last day they will be accepting applications.

Sign-up form (will create a CRM record):
http://emotorwerks.com/free-wattbox

OhmConnect account (needed to generate the CEA):
http://login.ohmconnect.com/register/pev

For those who have signed up and are waiting to get enrolled with their utility: please make sure that you have signed and returned the enrollment agreement. OhmConnect has re-sent this PDF form to everyone a few days ago. The subject of that email should read "Please Review PEV Agreement".

This form must be executed and deposited with the utility by Monday. Thank you for your cooperation!

 

[dstjohn99]

For those who have signed up and are waiting to get enrolled with their utility: please make sure that you have signed and returned the enrollment agreement. OhmConnect has re-sent this PDF form to everyone a few days ago. The subject of that email should read "Please Review PEV Agreement".

This form must be executed and deposited with the utility by Monday. Thank you for your cooperation!

Was this sent only to those not yet enrolled? (I didn't get the email, but I already have an agreement in place)

Also, how are the rebates being paid now? When I initially signed up last year, there was supposed to be a rebate for enrollment in the program, then rebates after 30 and 90 days participation I believe.