ALL POSTS - motor whine or "HUM" (Milling Sound)

[RAV4EVLovr]

^^^
RAV4EVLovr, how many miles on your car when the problem started? Any idea if the motor had been replaced once before?

Hi,
My car has a little over 10K miles on it. I bought it used (it had approx. 4.5K miles when I bought it). I don't know if it was previously replaced or not.

Update - the traction motor is what Toyota is replacing (at least that's what the service manager stated). It's currently in the Toyota Walnut Creek shop for the next 3 days.
They gave me another RAV4 EV as a loaner, and this does definitely sounds so much quieter than mine. I'm hoping the motor they replace will have significantly less noise.

 

[Khaihon]

I don't know if it was previously replaced or not.

You can find the history of your car at:
http://toyota.com/owners

 

[RAV4EVLovr]

I don't know if it was previously replaced or not.

You can find the history of your car at:
http://toyota.com/owners

Hmmm, I must be doing something wrong.
I logged into the site you listed, but it only shows the service history since I bought the car.
It doesn't list the service history prior to me owning the car.

I bought it used.

 

[Khaihon]

Looks like they redesigned their site. If you press service history, you'll get a list of recent services performed. There should be a red VIEW ALL HISTORY button in the same panel that pops up. For me at least, it shows additional information prior to when I purchased the car. Those were all dealer related so it is possible that the history doesn't transfer if it has been used.

 

[RAV4EVLovr]

Looks like they redesigned their site. If you press service history, you'll get a list of recent services performed. There should be a red VIEW ALL HISTORY button in the same panel that pops up. For me at least, it shows additional information prior to when I purchased the car. Those were all dealer related so it is possible that the history doesn't transfer if it has been used.

Yeah, I clicked on the "View All History" but it still only shows me the history of since I purchased it, not before.

Oh wells...

 

[n3ckf]

so i'm at Fremont Toyota with mine right now and demoed the "problem" to service tech who acknowledge he heard the issue.

When he called Toyota they told him to "charge the battery fully and then drive the car again with the windows closed and record the sound" and send it to them.

(We did the test drive with the windows open. In my car, at about 30 mph is the "best" speed to hear the problem at - at higher speeds tire/wind noise covers it up). It helps to drive hear a wall so the sound is reflected back to you in the car.

I havent figured out what charging the battery up does here. this sounds like the EV version of "reboot your PC and see if the problem is still there..."

 

[n3ckf]

so here's what happened:
- they sent the recording "to Toyota" and they said that it was nothing unusual at this time.

I suspect that's NOT true (the noise is getting gradually louder) but i'll have other opportunities in the future if that's true so i'm not actually worried about it.

Has anyone who has the "hum" ever had a failure related to it yet?

 

[Khaihon]

I haven't had any failure although my average efficiency has gone up after I got my motor replaced (from 3.6 mi/kWHr to 3.8 mi/kWHr). Most likely coincidental because my firmware was also updated which could have played a role. I just relied on what the nav displayed and not from any charge to the battery to miles driven measurements. It may have been other factors as well.

It was pretty frustrating to hear that they want to be able to hear the noise with the windows rowed up. Just because it is obviously quieter with the windows up doesn't mean the problem magically vanishes. When I was test-driving my problem vehicle around with the people from Toyota corporate last year, they almost had me believing that I was hearing things. They also claimed that my youtube recording was extremely exaggerated because I placed the recorder under my hood. I mean, the noise was obviously coming from under the hood so where else should I keep the recorder? in the hidden trunk compartment? the audio was also not edited in any way.

Makes me wonder if there is a specific range of motor serial numbers that is prone to developing the noise over time.

 

[smkettner]

Mine seems to have a slight gear noise that varies at times. Although it seemed like it would be worse for a time after some spirited driving. Especially in sport mode. I don't think it is enough to warranty as it does not seem as bad as some of the sound clips. I am on a campaign to drive mellow (mostly) for a few months and see if there is a change.

 

[RAV4EVLovr]

Well I got my car back from Walnut Creek Toyota yesterday after they replaced the traction motor. It is now quiet as a church mouse!
They also updated firmware.
Here's what the paperwork states:

104= Abnormal noise from traction motor assembly
Internal failure
104= Replaced traction motor assembly.
Road tested vehicle overnight. Abnormal noise at freeway speeds no longer present.
Rescanned for pending codes - None were stored

Reflash power management and gateway ECU per TSB 0010-14
old firmware 1.3.79
new firmware 1.3.83

Posting this so that others can see what was done to my RAV4 EV. And to see if anyone sees anything wrong, or that the dealer missed.

Thanks!

 

[evbuddy]

RAV4EVLovr and n3ckf,

Do you happen to have the sound bite your hums? I think I have the noise which toyota is saying it is normal.

Thanks,

 

[RAV4EVLovr]

RAV4EVLovr and n3ckf,

Do you happen to have the sound bite your hums? I think I have the noise which toyota is saying it is normal.

Thanks,

I can ask the dealer if they have the sound file and see if they are willing to send me a copy...no guarantees though. But never hurts to ask.
I'll let you know what they say...

 

[n3ckf]

i dont have the clip. however the noise isnt evident at freeway speeds (its not that loud).
it *is* very evident if you're driving with windows up at speeds between 20 and 35mph though.

Its not objectionable (yet) so i want to see if it gets worse. I have 16K on the clock right now. if it never gets louder than this, then i'm fine with it. but i bet its going to get louder (because it wasnt nearly this loud at 10K).

I may record some on my smartphone just to compare in say 5K miles when i take it in again.

 

[fooljoe]

I took mine in for the 15k service today and asked them to check on motor noise, which has become especially noticeable when applying light power at low speeds. Sure enough, the drive unit needs replacement; add me to the list.

 

[Kohler Controller]

Is anyone keeping a list of how many have had to be replaced? If not, I'll make one if each of you that has had motor noise problems send me the following information via PM.

1. VIN
2. Year
3. Date of Purchase
4. Mileage first noticed noise and under what conditions (speed range, power level, any other data)
5. Mileage noise was loud enough to do something about it (take it in to be checked out)
6. Which dealers did you take it to
7. Opinion of dealer or techs that seemed to be really helpful
8. What was their action
9. If replaced, how long did it take (date of car at dealer, date of car back home)
10. I've heard the drive train is covered for 50k miles, has anyone heard anything different
10.any additional information you think is relevant for others (i.e. name and phone/email of high level Toyota contact; dB threshold that must be reached for Toyota to accept a claim; etc)

 

[fooljoe]

I took mine in for the 15k service today and asked them to check on motor noise, which has become especially noticeable when applying light power at low speeds. Sure enough, the drive unit needs replacement; add me to the list.

Motor came in Monday, took the car in that afternoon and got it back today. The whole experience was really easy - gotta give props to Joe @ Cerritos Toyota. I just casually mentioned the noise when I brought the car in (I didn't even think it was that bad at all) and it didn't take any persuasion whatsoever to get them to realize it needed the drive unit replacement. The only downside was they don't have any loaner Rav4-EVs, but my wife did ok with a Scion xB for a couple days while I took the old Leaf to work.

 

[cwerdna]

edit: Update on the above. These are all one and the same incident.
http://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-s/2013/long-term-road-test/2013-tesla-model-s-stuck-on-the-freeway.html
http://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-s/2013/long-term-road-test/2013-tesla-model-s-is-the-third-drive-unit-the-charm.html

Drive unit was replaced (a 2nd time) along w/HV battery pack and 12 volt battery.

Edmunds' long-term Model S needed its 3rd drive unit replacement. Their car is at the 30k mile mark.
http://www.edmunds.com/tesla/model-s/2013/long-term-road-test/2013-tesla-model-s-drive-unit-iv-the-milling.html

So the count is 2 replaced for noise, 1 for total failure. Car is on its 4th drive unit.

And, thanks to some comments from the Edmunds piece, I became aware of Motortrend's long-term Model S drive unit replacement: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/oneyear/alternative/1404_2013_tesla_model_s_p85_update_3/ at 5 months ~13K miles.

 

[Ntd]

I had no idea how common the propulsion units are being replaced with the model S. For the last 2 K miles, my car has been having a "revved" sensation that is most palpable by the foot on the accelerator, mostly experienced above 70 mph. It was subtle, but slightly bothersome. The "revved" sensation is like driving a BMW M3 vs 500 series. At 16K miles, I mentioned it during a routine maintenance check at Palo Alto Toyota. I really thought that they were going to tell me that it is normal but the diagnostics suggested replacement of the propulsion unit which will arrive in 2 weeks.

We have owned 3 RAV4 EV's. The first (silver) could not drive out of the dealership and stopped on the freeway. That one needed its ECU and propulsion unit replaced. I did not end up keeping that one and got another one (blue) that was checked out to be OK by Tesla. Now the blue one will have its propulsion unit replaced soon.

Our other RAV4EV (white) had to have to have its Gateway ECU replaced as well at 300 miles. I want Tesla to succeed and do well and I know that we are beta testers for the company. What I am afraid of is the cost of paying for the propulsion units when the powertrain warranty expires. Also, I don't want to stop on the freeway again. I wonder what they will do with the propulsion unit that they take out. Will it be used in another car? Will I get a brand new unit? It seems like buying the extended warranty is a must for all those purchasing.

 

[miimura]

While we know that the drive unit in the RAV4 EV is based on the Model S, we don't know the extent that it is the same as what Tesla is putting in new Model S cars today. The RAV4 EV was released pretty early in the Model S production cycle. I'm quite sure that the drive units that are being taken out of Model S vehicles are being rebuilt and used for subsequent replacements. One reason we know that is that people are reporting on the forums that they got rebuilt ones when they were replaced under warranty. The same goes for traction battery packs. The HUM is probably a bearing issue either on the motor or the gear reduction "transmission". Some gears may be worn out of spec due to the bearing issues and may be replaced also. Inverter failures that cause drive unit replacement may be as simple as a circuit board replacement inside the drive unit.

I've not heard anyone say on this forum whether the drive unit they got in their RAV4 EV was new or re-manufactured, or if they could even tell. In any case, I agree that the extended warranty on the RAV4 EV looks like a very good idea for anyone that plans to keep one beyond 3 years and 36,000 miles. The prices posted in the other thread about warranties look very reasonable to take the coverage out to 8 years and 100,000 miles.

I just had a thought - what happens if you have the unlimited mileage lease and something major breaks within the lease period, but after the warranty runs out at 36,000 miles? Can you turn it in and walk away with a major repair outstanding, or do you have to fix it before they will close out the contract? I'm thinking you will have to pay. That's something to think about too.

 

[cwerdna]

BTW, due to an article and some comments posted about the drive units on the Model S, I came across some data of Model S owners from Tom Saxton's survey. More info at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=379457#p379457.

It'd be nice if someone here started a list of Rav4 EV owners both with and without any sort of drive unit and/or HV battery pack replacements, to get a sense of how bad this issue is. The later seems rare amongst Rav4 EV owners but the former not so rare.