I was wondering how the EPA came up with the MPG number. I found that the EPA considers 33.7KWh to be equal to 1 gallon of gasoline. My average consumption is 3.5 miles per kwh. I'm getting about 118 MPGe. The window stickers on our Rav4s is 76 MPGe. What are you getting?
What's your true MPGe
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TonyWilliams
Well-known member
I average 2.7. Almost perfectly in line with EPA range estimates.
2.7 * 41.8 = 113 miles
2.7 * 41.8 = 113 miles
Dsinned
Well-known member
"HD172", just curious, what extended charge range are you seeing with a 3.5mi/kWh average driving efficiency?
I think the EPA rating is far too conservative. I'm getting about 3.2mi/kWh on average, which equates to an extended charge range of nearly 135 miles. As I learn to drive my RAV EV more efficiently, I expect my average efficiency and extended range to rise slightly higher. I think 3.3 to 3.5 MPK (or 138 to 146 miles) is quite doable, especially in late Spring when battery charging conditions are optimum. My goal is to see a maximum extended range on the battery gauge of "140" minimum, during my first 90 days of ownership, and then "150" before next Summer. I'm only a few tenths away from seeing close to those numbers right now, (140 / 41.8 = 3.35mi/kWh). According to the EnTunes Eco Dashboard, some of us are averaging well over 3.0mi/kWh on a regular basis. Of course, to do that, we have to deny ourselves the thrill of Sport Mode, except on very rare occasions, and stick to hypermiling whenever possible. :mrgreen:
I think the EPA rating is far too conservative. I'm getting about 3.2mi/kWh on average, which equates to an extended charge range of nearly 135 miles. As I learn to drive my RAV EV more efficiently, I expect my average efficiency and extended range to rise slightly higher. I think 3.3 to 3.5 MPK (or 138 to 146 miles) is quite doable, especially in late Spring when battery charging conditions are optimum. My goal is to see a maximum extended range on the battery gauge of "140" minimum, during my first 90 days of ownership, and then "150" before next Summer. I'm only a few tenths away from seeing close to those numbers right now, (140 / 41.8 = 3.35mi/kWh). According to the EnTunes Eco Dashboard, some of us are averaging well over 3.0mi/kWh on a regular basis. Of course, to do that, we have to deny ourselves the thrill of Sport Mode, except on very rare occasions, and stick to hypermiling whenever possible. :mrgreen:
TonyWilliams
Well-known member
HD172 said:
The numbers that are being thrown around are based on algorithms that can be reset with a battery disconnect.
So, the default "rated range" appears to be 3.5 miles/kWh.
3.5 * 41.8 = 146 miles
That's exactly what I got after a battery disconnect.
But, that has nothing to do with what happens next. For all you guys driving mid 3's miles per kWh average, you will continue to show similar rated range numbers (146-ish) in the future.
If you are the average guy who is not hypermiling, wearing motorcycle heated vests (to not run the heater) like some do with other electric cars, then you'll probably be more like me at 2.7 miles/kWh.
The EPA is correct, not because it matches my average, but because it will match more closely to what Joe SixPack will actually drive. The same is true with other electric cars and their enthusiasts; of course you can get higher mileage than EPA, but you have to operate the car differently than average.
With the heater on, depending on which mode, there is a change to the predicted range (on the fuel gauge) and the rated range.
Here I am, Mr. EPA Average-dude, at 2.6 miles/kWh:
Dsinned
Well-known member
Tony, I respectfully disagree. To my way of thinking, the "average" RAV4 EV is much more likely to be driven by a hypermiler type of person, who prides themself on being as energy efficient as possible. It's just kind of the mindset that comes with EV ownership. Very few people, if any, would drive any make or model EV to "DILYSI" (Drive It Like You Stole It), with the possible exception of a Tesla. The latter appeals to people with a lot more money to burn and driving conservatively would generally not be on their agenda. Same for people with a lot less money sometimes as well, like me . . . I own a Z06 and don't really give a rat's ass how much MPG I can get while driving it. It's only really fun to drive when I go as fast as I can legally get away with, which is very, very seldom in the REAL WORLD. :lol:
However, I think EVs generally appeal to the "thinking man", guys (and gals) that get a kick out of trying to out do themselves everytime they go for a drive, by always trying to improve their driving efficiency. In the case of a RAV4 EV, those type of people are probably all extremely focused on the Miles/kWH they are getting by constantly monitoring their realtime driving efficiency, as well as the cummulative average miles/kWH constantly being updated on the dash. That parameter varies a lot (from the factory default) by how you choose to drive. To me, and certainly many others, it is quite intellectually stimulating, as well as personally gratifying to get every last tenth of a mile out of each and every killowatt while driving my RAV4 EV.
I know it may sound kind of illogical, even silly, but doing this in an EV is actually quite FUN! :mrgreen:
Personally, I definitely enjoy driving my RAV4 EV much more than my 505HP, 3200 pound, Z06 (0 to 60 in 3.8 secs) for this very reason. Every time I'm alledgedly having "fun" in my Corvette, I am full of anxiety, because I am on the verge of spending a night in jail! Conversely, driving either of my EVs can be just as enjoyable, although certainly not nearly as thrilling, by just driving 5 mph under the speed limit and coasting to a stop trying not to get tailgated in the process, which creates some anxieties as well. However, it is entirely counterproductive to do jack rabbit starts and clamping hard on the brakes, and passing every car on the freeway, while pretending to be Mario Andretti in an EV.
I prefer to have "bragging right" to how energy efficient I am driving my EV, and how far I can go on a full battery charge, not how fast I can accelerate or go on the Interstate, or how many lateral Gs i can take in a turn. Afterall, the RAV4 EV is a "family" car, not in any stretch of the imagination a flashy sports car! Driving fast 'n furious just doesn't interest me in an EV; probably not even if I ever owned a Tesla. However, driving my RAV4 EV as energy efficiently as possible in the real world and seeing the results of doing just that, can be a HUGE TURN ON.
However, I think EVs generally appeal to the "thinking man", guys (and gals) that get a kick out of trying to out do themselves everytime they go for a drive, by always trying to improve their driving efficiency. In the case of a RAV4 EV, those type of people are probably all extremely focused on the Miles/kWH they are getting by constantly monitoring their realtime driving efficiency, as well as the cummulative average miles/kWH constantly being updated on the dash. That parameter varies a lot (from the factory default) by how you choose to drive. To me, and certainly many others, it is quite intellectually stimulating, as well as personally gratifying to get every last tenth of a mile out of each and every killowatt while driving my RAV4 EV.
I know it may sound kind of illogical, even silly, but doing this in an EV is actually quite FUN! :mrgreen:
Personally, I definitely enjoy driving my RAV4 EV much more than my 505HP, 3200 pound, Z06 (0 to 60 in 3.8 secs) for this very reason. Every time I'm alledgedly having "fun" in my Corvette, I am full of anxiety, because I am on the verge of spending a night in jail! Conversely, driving either of my EVs can be just as enjoyable, although certainly not nearly as thrilling, by just driving 5 mph under the speed limit and coasting to a stop trying not to get tailgated in the process, which creates some anxieties as well. However, it is entirely counterproductive to do jack rabbit starts and clamping hard on the brakes, and passing every car on the freeway, while pretending to be Mario Andretti in an EV.
I prefer to have "bragging right" to how energy efficient I am driving my EV, and how far I can go on a full battery charge, not how fast I can accelerate or go on the Interstate, or how many lateral Gs i can take in a turn. Afterall, the RAV4 EV is a "family" car, not in any stretch of the imagination a flashy sports car! Driving fast 'n furious just doesn't interest me in an EV; probably not even if I ever owned a Tesla. However, driving my RAV4 EV as energy efficiently as possible in the real world and seeing the results of doing just that, can be a HUGE TURN ON.
Dsinned
Well-known member
Wow!!! That's OUTSTANDING and got to be the record on this forum so far, but some of us are slowly gaining on you! :mrgreen:HD172 said:
TonyWilliams
Well-known member
Dsinned said:
You don't need to drive like a sports car to get 2.7 miles/kWh... believe me :?
I towed my 6x12 foot enclosed trailer tonight... 2.2. Still, better than buying diesel/gasoline.
Anyway, I hereby challenge you to be the first to break 200 miles unrefueled. The car must start and finish at the same elevation, but the rest is up to you. I made this challenge for the "100 Mile Club" with LEAF drivers, but with a battery twice as big, we should get some entries in the "200 Mile Club".
Dsinned
Well-known member
For the foreseeable future, I would be more than satisfied breaking into the "150" club. I think that may be possible in the late Spring when the weather is warmer, and my RAV4 is fully "broken in", tires inflated to maximum, no passengers, no cargo weight, day time driving only (no headlights), "normal" mode only, predominately flat roads, driving under 50 mph (no freeways), etc.
"140" in a RAV4 EV is DEFINITELY doable. I'm real close to that NOW, which is still quite respectable for a 4032 pound electrified SUV!
In my 3780 pound 2012 VOLT, breaking into the "50" mile club (with only 10.5kWh of usable battery) has proven to be quite challenging. I can't quite get that many miles out of a full charge. 48 miles is my best so far.
With ~4:1 ratio between these two cars' usable battery capacities, allowing for a 250 pound (or -7%) weight penalty imposed on the Toyota, in theory, any extremely good hypermile driver should be able to get close to 180 miles in a RAV4 EV. I don't think it is worth the effort though, because "I" weigh 265 lbs, and my RAV4 would need a continuously strong tail wind, but I'm not planning on dieting, and there is just no controlling the weather. :mrgreen:
"140" in a RAV4 EV is DEFINITELY doable. I'm real close to that NOW, which is still quite respectable for a 4032 pound electrified SUV!
In my 3780 pound 2012 VOLT, breaking into the "50" mile club (with only 10.5kWh of usable battery) has proven to be quite challenging. I can't quite get that many miles out of a full charge. 48 miles is my best so far.
With ~4:1 ratio between these two cars' usable battery capacities, allowing for a 250 pound (or -7%) weight penalty imposed on the Toyota, in theory, any extremely good hypermile driver should be able to get close to 180 miles in a RAV4 EV. I don't think it is worth the effort though, because "I" weigh 265 lbs, and my RAV4 would need a continuously strong tail wind, but I'm not planning on dieting, and there is just no controlling the weather. :mrgreen:
I've been using the car's "estimated range" number as a barometer of my improving skills at getting more miles per kWh. I had some additional driving to do today, so I scheduled an Extended charge last night. When I went out to the car this morning, I was greeted with this:
Tony refers to the estimated range as the "Guess O Meter" or GOM, which I like purely for it's cleverness. However, this is a little interesting. If I divide 167 miles by 41.8 kWh, I get 3.995 miles per kWh. Looking on the entune app's "ECO Score" page, I'm showing a Summary efficiency value of 3.3 miles/kWh, and looking at my "scores" for the last couple of weeks, I've not had a daily score of more than 3.7 for any of the days logged, and on that day I did VERY light driving at slow speeds.
This is also a little disconcerting because I would hope the GOM would be a little more conservative than the behavior above suggests. An overconfident GOM leads to stranded motorists, or at least those who plan a trip and don't arrive at their intended destination on a single charge.
Has anyone got a good idea of the "math" the GOM is using to arrive at its value?
For what it's worth, I drove 87 miles today and the fuel gauge showed 8 bars (half a "tank") when I got home tonight. As discussed in other threads, I think folks have agreed that the "half tank" reading is really more of 40% of overall capacity as it shows full after a standard 80% charge. It would be tempting to multiply 87 driven miles by 2 to delude yourself into thinking you could drive another 87 miles for a total of 174.
I think that if my driving habits of this past week were to hold true, I could probably do 150 or more on an Extended charge, as I have spent a bunch of time coasting in heavy traffic at 20 MPH. Very tedius for the mind and one's rear-end, but great for driving many miles on few electrons.
-Chris
Tony refers to the estimated range as the "Guess O Meter" or GOM, which I like purely for it's cleverness. However, this is a little interesting. If I divide 167 miles by 41.8 kWh, I get 3.995 miles per kWh. Looking on the entune app's "ECO Score" page, I'm showing a Summary efficiency value of 3.3 miles/kWh, and looking at my "scores" for the last couple of weeks, I've not had a daily score of more than 3.7 for any of the days logged, and on that day I did VERY light driving at slow speeds.
This is also a little disconcerting because I would hope the GOM would be a little more conservative than the behavior above suggests. An overconfident GOM leads to stranded motorists, or at least those who plan a trip and don't arrive at their intended destination on a single charge.
Has anyone got a good idea of the "math" the GOM is using to arrive at its value?
For what it's worth, I drove 87 miles today and the fuel gauge showed 8 bars (half a "tank") when I got home tonight. As discussed in other threads, I think folks have agreed that the "half tank" reading is really more of 40% of overall capacity as it shows full after a standard 80% charge. It would be tempting to multiply 87 driven miles by 2 to delude yourself into thinking you could drive another 87 miles for a total of 174.
I think that if my driving habits of this past week were to hold true, I could probably do 150 or more on an Extended charge, as I have spent a bunch of time coasting in heavy traffic at 20 MPH. Very tedius for the mind and one's rear-end, but great for driving many miles on few electrons.
-Chris
Dsinned
Well-known member
CONGRATS!!!
Chris, that has to be a new forum record! VERY IMPRESSIVE!!!
I think the "GoM" does a fair job of "estimating" range, but what it does NOT do is decrement linearly with respect to the actual miles driven. It decrements segments - as reflected in Tony's Rate Chart - at ~2kWh/segment. Battery depletion although related to "how" the car is driven, doesn not track nearly as well with how "far" the car is driven.
As far as the ECO Dashboard, I think it averages ALL "trips" including power on/off cycles that do not result in any actual miles driven. This tends to reduce the average efficiency making it less accurate. and/or artificially low(er).
Anyways, even at a highest logged driving efficiency of 3.7mi/kWh, you are doing exceeding well and that will be hard to beat.
Chris, that has to be a new forum record! VERY IMPRESSIVE!!!
I think the "GoM" does a fair job of "estimating" range, but what it does NOT do is decrement linearly with respect to the actual miles driven. It decrements segments - as reflected in Tony's Rate Chart - at ~2kWh/segment. Battery depletion although related to "how" the car is driven, doesn not track nearly as well with how "far" the car is driven.
As far as the ECO Dashboard, I think it averages ALL "trips" including power on/off cycles that do not result in any actual miles driven. This tends to reduce the average efficiency making it less accurate. and/or artificially low(er).
Anyways, even at a highest logged driving efficiency of 3.7mi/kWh, you are doing exceeding well and that will be hard to beat.
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